List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[austinnn]

Gresham is looking at a massive payday here, all he has to do is shut up, refrain from officially requesting a trade and especially refrain from nominating Essendon.

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

McKay and Gresham are both decent players but the Bombers are overpaying drastically.

 

[stfan]

Gresham is looking at a massive payday here, all he has to do is shut up, refrain from officially requesting a trade and especially refrain from nominating Essendon.

? As a Restricted Free Agent how can he not nominate Essendon if he is to go there as a FA?

Is this not the main thing he has to do?

 

[austinnn]

McKay and Gresham are both decent players but the Bombers are overpaying drastically.

Not yet they're not.

Depends how close they think they are. Entilement brings its own pressure, and relevance after 20 years of systemic failure is worth paying over the odds for, especially for a proudly rich club.

 

[sunny3193]

16 other clubs could not have done it. Pick 7 only came with Jack Bowes and Geelong had enticed him to come play for them.
I'm sure 16 other clubs tried

Well, no.

About 5-8 clubs enquired about him, including us, but in the end Bowes chose Cats after several meetings with other clubs too. There are also clubs that either could not afford the Bowes contract or just were not interested.

Any of the 16 clubs could have flexed their salary cap, if required, as Geelong did. That is the point. Whether other clubs were in on the deal, or whether Bowes wanted to play with them is moot.

 

[Diehard Saint]

North need to replace McKay. Howard and 13 plus steak knives for 3.

So… on trade Shiel….

 

[gringo2011]

People are emotionally invested in people like Gresham.

When they are nearing the exit door. They start overrating how good they are.

Like when you reminisce about the end of a relationship. Everything seems better when your at the end.

But then you forget how you got to the end.

If you go look at the Essendon board. They feel similar about Gresham as we do about shiel

I'm invested in improvement. In the last 5 years we've been selling low buying high. Trading best 22 players for speculative draft picks etc. It looks like more of the same. I'd take a period of stability over their speculative shit. People seem to think you can gamble your way out of a gambling debt.

Anyway. They're making their bed and if they fall out of contention taking risks then there should be big changes at the club. No excuses any more. If we don't improve after they have made these moves someone has to be held to account. Obviously I'm the only one that worries about it so hopefully you're all right. Doubt it though.

 

[gringo2011]

It's like Dunstan all over again. End of 2020 people were calling him AA quality because he got brownlow votes ffs....

Retired 6 games and 3 seasons later was about how good he was...

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And we fell over because we ran out of mids the next year and are still years off a flag challenge. I would settle for just not being shit any more.

 

[gringo2011]

We're not gonna keep someone that doesn't want to be here, that never works. Especially someone who isn't a top player and is expendable. Gresham is leaving for more playing time at the MCG and the money

Is he demanding that we release him is he?

 

[gringo2011]

McKay nominates Essendon on a massive contract. Even more reason for them to need to salary dump Shiel now

They reckon they have $2 million in cap space.

 

[Mowman]

And we fell over because we ran out of mids the next year and are still years off a flag challenge. I would settle for just not being s**t any more.

We weren’t shlt this year gringo

I understand the not trusting them it will take more then one year for a lot of supporters, which is fair enough

I have some believe back and think we are getting heaps right, let’s see what SOS can do Henry is a good start

 

[gringo2011]

All my opinion but generally consistent with Cal Twomey and others.
There are a clear top 6 in the draft that seem to be locked those early picks then another 6 of quality before the steep drop off in class this draft. Fairly normal draft year similar to last year where Phillipou was the last of the top end ranked at 10 before it became more speculative.

However this year:

• 3 of the 12 are GC Academy so untouchable
• North will be a FA comp pick for McKay at pick 3
• and seems like they will also get the mid first round comp pick at pick 11

Elite
1. WC - Reid (clear number 1)
2. GC - Walter (clear number2) GC Academy

Next batch
3. Nth - McKercher
4. Nth - Dursma (Ben McKay FA Comp)
5. Haw - Watson
6. GC - Curtin (Original pick 4 up for grabs)

Then (in my order of preference)
7. Mel - Sanders
8. GWS - O'Sullivan
9. Geel - Caddy
10. GC - Ethan Reid GC Academy
11. GC - Rodgers GC Academy
12. Ess - Wilson
13. Adel
14. WB
15. Nth - (Comp Pick for very poor performance)
16. Syd
17. StK
18. Stk - (Highly speculative Band 1 Comp pick for Gresham)

After 12 it is a throw of the dice different clubs will have wildly different draft orders after that

Of the top 12 only the GC pick 4 (6) is up for trade and I can't see anyone else wanting to split a pick for two in the teens

If we are keen on Sanders the GC pick is the only option and if we hold 12 and 13 (17,18) that out bids the WB.

So if that is our strategy it seems sound if McKercher or Dursma slide to 6 which I think is unlikely well you have a lucky choice to make but Sanders will be there and equally he will be gone by Essendon's current pick 8 (12)

Saying all that seems unlikely we pull off both the Gresham Band 1 and the GC pick 4 deal and Sanders would have a lot of pressure to be the gun mid we need.

Also he is Tasmanian and a likely target for them in a few years

Still I prefer we have a plan to move in the draft to get the players we rate rather than sit and take best available at our picks. Sitting still in both Trade and Draft will not move the needle.

Not that excited about Sanders. Would rather a combination of Demattia, Windsor or Tholstrup. I reckon they are slightly more speculative but not that much.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The whole matching / keeping a player is a weird loophole isn’t it.

Imagine stumping up a 4 mil, 5 year deal for a player that wanted to leave.

They can still quit, enter the draft , and nominate those same terms.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What a Midfield for
Season 2024
Dylan Shiel 31
Brad Crouch 30
Seb Ross 30
Jack Sinclair 29
Jack Steele 28
Zak Jones 28

Players don't really decline from their peak much until they are shot.
I think it was Gringo who put up a graph of it. Cats prove it too.

 

[gringo2011]

We weren’t shlt this year gringo

I understand the not trusting them it will take more then one year for a lot of supporters, which is fair enough

I have some believe back and think we are getting heaps right, let’s see what SOS can do Henry is a good start

We had a good system but the list is still a fair way off. A fit Steele and King will make a difference but not sure it will be enough to move us forward and others might jump us I think. Dow and Henry will push guys like Byrnes and Seb Ross out maybe but not sure that it will be the kind of injection that will thrust us forward. A lot will rest on how much more Owens, Phillipou and Windhager step up. Kids usually don't improve in a straight trajectory unfortunately.

 

[Diehard Saint]

And we fell over because we ran out of mids the next year and are still years off a flag challenge. I would settle for just not being s**t any more.

I know it’s just been one year so far, but we were far from sh*t for the majority of theyear.

Is he demanding that we release him is he?

Not as yet. But he’s looking around and obviously prepared to leave for the right deal. We kept Stuv against his will, refusing to trade him the first time he asked to go to the Cats and look how well that worked out for us.

They reckon they have $2 million in cap space.

If so, and they don’t need our help they will still need to offer him enough to activate a first rounder, or else we can match and/or demand a pick as a trade. As we were with Crouch, they‘re probably interested in him because they can get him without using a pick.

The difference between Crouch and now us with Gresh is that they didn’t want him, yet by all accounts we’d be happy to keep Gresh - which puts us firmly in the driver’s seat.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm invested in improvement. In the last 5 years we've been selling low buying high. Trading best 22 players for speculative draft picks etc. It looks like more of the same. I'd take a period of stability over their speculative s**t. People seem to think you can gamble your way out of a gambling debt.

Anyway. They're making their bed and if they fall out of contention taking risks then there should be big changes at the club. No excuses any more. If we don't improve after they have made these moves someone has to be held to account. Obviously I'm the only one that worries about it so hopefully you're all right. Doubt it though.

No, lately you have been in some weird downward spiral and sharing your opinions of doom.

Acres and Ben Long is now what your holding your hat on. 2 blokes who were cusp 22 players and regularly in and out of the side.

The Fact is that we have improved in the past 12 months. More so than at any point in the last 12 years. We have some genuine gun youth. We have just had multiple all Australians.

We were cut throat sacking Ratten and going after and appoint Lyon.

If the club want to adopt the same approach and bin all your favourites. Of which all are whipping boys this year to get more kids on the list. Then let’s go for it.

You cry about direction. You’re getting it.

You cry about not investing in youth. We are doing that.

Seriously. You aren’t even close to the pulse with your narratives of late.

 

[stavro#4]

Is he demanding that we release him is he?

Without it being spoken publicly.

It’s very ominous that we are working on a deal to get Gresham to Essendon if he didn’t want to go there

 

[gringo2011]

If we’re worried about clearances, we could do worse than Sam Menegola.

Granted, he’s 31, but

What was the injury that kept him out for so long?

 

[gubby88]

What was the injury that kept him out for so long?

Arthritis

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[kernelT]

What a Midfield for
Season 2024
Dylan Shiel 31
Brad Crouch 30
Seb Ross 30
Jack Sinclair 29
Jack Steele 28
Zak Jones 28

The Be sharps

 

[akaifu]

Is he demanding that we release him is he?

If he wants to leave, why would you stop him? Its not like he's Wilkie, Row, Nas, Owens. He's a player that can easily be replaced in the side.

 

[kernelT]

Arthritis

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The names Spinal, Spinal Meningitis… but you can call me Sam.

 

[kernelT]

If he wants to leave, why would you stop him? Its not like he's Wilkie, Row, Nas, Owens. He's a player that can easily be replaced in the side.

I'm pretty sure he'd like to stay, but is getting shopped for compo just like we did with Goddard.

He's not a player who can easily be replaced at all, but we do love to give players a kick on the way out.

 

[saintmike65]

If McKay doesn’t cost as much due to a knee issue then it may not trigger band 1 compensation.

North will then match the offer and McKay will need to be traded to land at either Essendon or Hawthorn. Simples. Going into the PSD won’t help him because North have pick 1.

As far as Gresham is concerned it seems clear to me, reading between the lines, that Saints will match any big that only triggers band 2 compensation. It will required band 1 for us to let him go.

All this nonsense about what is in it for Essendon to offer band 1 compensation is just dumb. What’s in it for them is they get a quality player without needing to pay a draft pick for him.

All this tripe I’ve read about Saints having to accept pick 27 for him if we match the bid is just nonsense. We won’t trade him for a 2nd RDP. Or even a late first. We’ll keep him. He’s worth more to us than that.

Cough up a deal that offers band 1 compensation and he’s yours. If not we’re happy to match and keep him. The ball is in your court.

Essendon could also walk away, just like we threatened to do with Crouch