List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

His management has explicitly asked us not put forth an offer cause that may affect his contract offers from other clubs

We absolutely are not forcing him out. The lad wants to earn as much as he can which is fair enough.

I read that as put up the offer after he gets offers from outside. Not that he's asked not to play with us again.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m happy for him to stay out of the media. Who cares what his profile is as long as he keeps improving? I’m not sure he’s the type that would want the extra attention. Owens and Pou on the other hand would lap it up.

Owens seems to be a shy kid too. He doesn't seem to like the attention much. Phillipou is 100% a natural celebrity. He feeds off the energy of people adoring him. If his game day gets as good as his media performances he'll be a natural face of the club type.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah 100%.

He wants to earn the most money he can.

Let’s say he get 750k from Essendon (spitballing) then he’d want us to match or realistically exceed it cause Essendon will offer more off field opportunities.

We haven’t pushed him out in any way but we seem comfortable potentially losing him. Pretty mature approach from both sides.

Which is what you should do for your client or you are a shit manager. I think most players stay for the same or slightly less. Most players don't want to move because they have bonds that tie them to the place that they've grown up in.

Pushed is provably unfair but we certainly haven't put up a wall and said that we are desperate to keep him. If we've told him that we'd be open to losing him if we can get a first round pick he might end up hurt feelings and wanting out anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

Bit late to the party but I honestly don’t mind the thought of the Shiel acquisition if it’s for peanuts. I remember watching him last year in his rematch against the Swans after they Parker was giving him some flack about shirking a contest, and his game against them later in the year was A grade.

Makes me wonder if he just needs better management and motivation? Maybe being offered as trade bait and playing under Ross will give him a bit of that?

Also, a 1st rounder for Gresh would be unreal. His kicking is a limitation, will always be a good player with flaws, just never gonna elevate passed his early output, much like Billings.

I can't see us getting him cheap. Most Essendon fans seem to be freaking out and want our pick 13 for him. If they have all of this cap space this year already and he comes off the books at the end of 2024 I can't see why they'd just throw him away.

Shiel was good at GWS where he could be the fourth best mid and run free, in a weaker midfield he looked like a very ordinary player. He'd probably be better with us because of the bigger bodies around him but unless he was nearly free he's a bit of a distraction and not got any long term viability. His body has always struggled too. Even when he plays it's often carrying something.

 

[bird_man]

I can't see us getting him cheap. Most Essendon fans seem to be freaking out and want our pick 13 for him. If they have all of this cap space this year already and he comes off the books at the end of 2024 I can't see why they'd just throw him away.

Shiel was good at GWS where he could be the fourth best mid and run free, in a weaker midfield he looked like a very ordinary player. He'd probably be better with us because of the bigger bodies around him but unless he was nearly free he's a bit of a distraction and not got any long term viability. His body has always struggled too. Even when he plays it's often carrying something.

Essendon would clearly have to be getting something more out of the deal for it to make sense.

1 year of a contract would not be a huge burden on them. At the moment both sets of fans seem to think it's them that will end up with pick 13.

I think for Essendon to be bumping that offer up so far for Gresham they would have to expect we pay overs for Shiel.

Maybe we end up with 13 and find an early 2nd to give them for Shiel. I'm not sure, but there must be something else involved for it to make sense for both clubs.

 

[kernelT]

I hope we’re not that dumb.

Hodge & Lewis are the barometer here… 4th rounders.

Would rather just take a band 2 than help essendon.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[bird_man]

I hope we’re not that dumb.

Hodge & Lewis are the barometer here… 4th rounders.

Would rather just take a band 2 than help essendon.

Might be lucky to get band 2

 

[bird_man]

So 2 late firsts and a 2nd?

On top of the 2nd and 3rd already received

That's quite some hand outs

 

[XhazzafootyX]

we asked the question of Goldstein but never went anywhere. Seems he is bombers bound

 

[stavro#4]

So 2 late firsts and a 2nd?

On top of the 2nd and 3rd already received

That's quite some hand outs

I could cop it as a rival fan if it turns out being pick 19 this year and next and a second rounder.

That mid first rounder talk and the fact they asked for a pick at the top of the draft is

 

[pebblesofsand]

I hope we’re not that dumb.

Hodge & Lewis are the barometer here… 4th rounders.

Would rather just take a band 2 than help essendon.

If the market actually thought Shiel was worth Pick 13 then its see you later Seb Ross. Essendon supporters are delusional.

Sebastian Ross and Dylan Shiel AFL Stats Comparison

Sebastian Ross and Dylan Shiel AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[gringo2011]

Might be lucky to get band 2

We'd be crazy not to match at that point. With the new CBA $750k will be the average wage.

 

[stavro#4]

we asked the question of Goldstein but never went anywhere. Seems he is bombers bound

Apparently a 2 year deal at Essendon working as a part time ruck coach aswell

 

[Saintos The ITK]

So 2 late firsts and a 2nd?

On top of the 2nd and 3rd already received

That's quite some hand outs

We’ve been shit but obviously not shit enough.
Maybe give the team with the least flags and the most spoons a bit of a ****en leg up??

 

[stavro#4]

 

[gringo2011]

Essendon would clearly have to be getting something more out of the deal for it to make sense.

1 year of a contract would not be a huge burden on them. At the moment both sets of fans seem to think it's them that will end up with pick 13.

I think for Essendon to be bumping that offer up so far for Gresham they would have to expect we pay overs for Shiel.

Maybe we end up with 13 and find an early 2nd to give them for Shiel. I'm not sure, but there must be something else involved for it to make sense for both clubs.

Maybe we give them the Gresham compo and pick 13 for their pick 8 and Shiel or something. Chase Sanders. I'd rather take the two picks to the draft personally. I think this draft is a bit hit and miss.

 

[Nutsngum]

There is no universe where Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

is worth a first round pick at 30 years of age. Utter nonsense.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm invested in improvement. In the last 5 years we've been selling low buying high. Trading best 22 players for speculative draft picks etc. It looks like more of the same. I'd take a period of stability over their speculative s**t. People seem to think you can gamble your way out of a gambling debt.

Anyway. They're making their bed and if they fall out of contention taking risks then there should be big changes at the club. No excuses any more. If we don't improve after they have made these moves someone has to be held to account. Obviously I'm the only one that worries about it so hopefully you're all right. Doubt it though.

i can understand how you feel this way... i think it's unfair that there's an expectation on saints fans that they should be all content and happy with how things are going and thats not because i dont think things are tracking in the right direction... it's more there's been a lot of broken trust over a long period of time.

you can't **** over a supporter base with 12 years of promises and talking everything up at every opportunity and then just expect people to start trusting the club again in year 1. it's going to take time to win people over with consistent improve with the right decisions made.

i could make a seriously long bullet point over all the bullish chest beating the club and it supporters have made over the last 12 years that has resulted in failed rebuild after failed rebuild.

one thing that i don't think instills much trust is that someone like simon lethlean who engineered the last failed rebuild has been promoted to CEO after we've had a history of promoting guys/extending their contracts when they were clearly no good for on field results. again another long list of examples there.

also there's a view of nepotism thats been going at the club with a degree of nostalgia if i am summarizing some of the concerns people have had. which means people are going to be concerned... couple that with the flash in the pan in 2020 and i think people just expect the wheels to fall off again, where the nepotism thing will be the obvious example as to what went wrong.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Would we have a small enough jumper to fit Shiel????

 

[stavro#4]

Maybe we give them the Gresham compo and pick 13 for their pick 8 and Shiel or something. Chase Sanders. I'd rather take the two picks to the draft personally. I think this draft is a bit hit and miss.

The key to all this was that there are different “variations” being worked through with Essendon according to Ralph.

From what I got told this morning. There is one where another one of our players is talked about going there.

So maybe Paton or Billings? (Based on previous interest?)

 

[kernelT]

If the market actually thought Shiel was worth Pick 13 then its see you later Seb Ross. Essendon supporters are delusional.

Sebastian Ross and Dylan Shiel AFL Stats Comparison

Sebastian Ross and Dylan Shiel AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

No I'm talking about our 2nd rounder, would be disappointed if we handed that over.

 

[Neil Elvis Winmar]

We aren't that old. Howard is only 27. He'd have 5 years left. Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood and Campbell are our 30 year olds and most probably go until about 32 to 34 these days if they are any good. Collingwood is approaching a cliff with most of their best players around 30 or over. We are a young side still and getting younger.

Gresham is the only one with any value out of those guys which is why we are rolling the dice on him. Coffield and Clark are too old to be worth much now. Probably like Stocker they'd get picked up with a late pick or DFA. Doubt any make our suite of picks more attractive. Your best hope is trade one for a later pick and use it on Dow types.

Gresham had a bad year and is at his lowest value now. He has played some fantastic footy for us. The disrespect he gets on here is a totally OTT.

Richmond won three flags with a pretty solid but pedestrian list and a superstar match winner. If Owens or Phillipou can become a star player in that mould we all of a sudden look much closer to a flag. Get into the top 4 and you have a ticket in the lottery with decent odds. We weren't miles off that this year. Improve 20% and we are getting closer.

Howard’s body is completely shot and he’s only playing for the money. I know this for a fact. Otherwise he would put the que in the rack.

Campbell he should never play another AFL game. Honest VFL type but honestly.

I don’t see any of the others I mentioned in our next premiership. I’m not saying get rid of them as they are still really solid players I just wouldn’t be assuming many are there after next year and if most of them aren’t getting getting pushed out in 2 years we are in trouble.

I’m not against keeping Gresham on $550 and a two year deal with an option for a third based on his output. If he wants $750 or more years and he can get it then go.

Not sure as impressive as Owens and Pou are that they are going to be the genuine mids we need. Great support mids that are dynamic going forward also.

First time I’ve heard that Richmond team called pedestrian hate to get your assessment of our current team if they were pedestrian. Had one of the best captains in Cotch of recent times (midfielder & top draft pick) most powerful and dynamic onballers ever in Dusty (top draft pick) then added Tom lynch and Dion Prestia through aggressive trade. Add Raines, Riewoldt,Grimes, Vlausten, Bolton all good draft picks. They probably had the best group of top 10 players of any team. Had some good fillers around that though. They made strong list decisions the years ahead of this and then it does take a little bit of time

 

[EddieMurphy]

Owens seems to be a shy kid too. He doesn't seem to like the attention much. Phillipou is 100% a natural celebrity. He feeds off the energy of people adoring him. If his game day gets as good as his media performances he'll be a natural face of the club type.

#thenewroo

 

[gringo2011]

Howard’s body is completely shot and he’s only playing for the money. I know this for a fact. Otherwise he would put the que in the rack.

Campbell he should never play another AFL game. Honest VFL type but honestly.

I don’t see any of the others I mentioned in our next premiership. I’m not saying get rid of them as they are still really solid players I just wouldn’t be assuming many are there after next year and if most of them aren’t getting getting pushed out in 2 years we are in trouble.

I’m not against keeping Gresham on $550 and a two year deal with an option for a third based on his output. If he wants $750 or more years and he can get it then go.

Not sure as impressive as Owens and Pou are that they are going to be the genuine mids we need. Great support mids that are dynamic going forward also.

First time I’ve heard that Richmond team called pedestrian hate to get your assessment of our current team if they were pedestrian. Had one of the best captains in Cotch of recent times (midfielder & top draft pick) most powerful and dynamic onballers ever in Dusty (top draft pick) then added Tom lynch and Dion Prestia through aggressive trade. Add Raines, Riewoldt,Grimes, Vlausten, Bolton all good draft picks. They probably had the best group of top 10 players of any team. Had some good fillers around that though. They made strong list decisions the years ahead of this and then it does take a little bit of time

I reckon only Dusty was exceptional though. Bolton was pure X factor but they were a team of even talent, not stars but they all played for each other and their game plan suited what they had. Compared to sides like the Lions golden era they were pretty ordinary. Cotch was great captain but a player around Jack Steele level. Prestia and Lynch were great pick ups but they'd already won a flag before they got Lynch and Prestia was not a super star type either. That peak midfield was Edwards, Cotch and Prestia with a few rotating through. It looked a lot better on the ground than on paper.