List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[crow2crow]

were going to have issues next year
one first round pick and 4 main list spots and 2 rookie spots available post my projected retirements and delistings

we will have F1 and a bunch of spuds being picked up with 4th and 5th rounders. unlikely to get any free agents to take these spots.

it was really dumb not to smooth this out and cut another one or two this year and have some more picks this year to reduce next years changes.

 

[baldandbroke]

This talk about Oliver willing to take a pay cut ... how does that work?

Can a player just burn his current deal and start again? Does that not influence the existing club's future cap in any way?

Seems like a thin-edge of the wedge to me - is this a different version of Daniher re-doing his contract after the compensation pick is paid?

 

[Mutineer]

were going to have issues next year
one first round pick and 4 main list spots and 2 rookie spots available post my projected retirements and delistings

we will have F1 and a bunch of spuds being picked up with 4th and 5th rounders. unlikely to get any free agents to take these spots.

it was really dumb not to smooth this out and cut another one or two this year and have some more picks this year to reduce next years changes.

Hint

The way clubs are prepared to trade out of next year's draft to get into this year's would seem to be a good indicator they don't see the 2025 draft as being particularly good.

Picks in this draft are obviously at a premium, good luck trying to procure them now or even earlier.

Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to bring in proven players.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Hint

The way clubs are prepared to trade out of next year's draft to get into this year's would seem to be a good indicator they don't see the 2025 draft as being particularly good.

Picks in this draft are obviously at a premium, good luck trying to procure them now or even earlier.

Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to bring in proven players.

Well next year is the first year you can trade multiple year picks so getting back into next years draft will be a lot easier. But it does appear this is a generational type draft year where you dont see this depth in talent very often. Just be thankful it wasnt in Tasmanias time.

 

[Mutineer]

Brisbane pair midfielder Dev Robertson and elite endurance runner Harry Sharp have told Brisna they'd like to be trafed, seems Harry Sharp has Melbourne interest given he's named his preferred destination.

Can't see them not getting to their preferred clubs given Brisbane will want points for Ashcroft and Marshall. Probably both good gets for their new clubs given they'll likely go for less than they're worth.

 

[Coopers]

This talk about Oliver willing to take a pay cut ... how does that work?

Can a player just burn his current deal and start again? Does that not influence the existing club's future cap in any way?

Seems like a thin-edge of the wedge to me - is this a different version of Daniher re-doing his contract after the compensation pick is paid?

I suspect if you are happy to renegotiate your contract for LESS money, most employers would do that with you.

So... sure. Why not.

 

[Coopers]

were going to have issues next year
one first round pick and 4 main list spots and 2 rookie spots available post my projected retirements and delistings

we will have F1 and a bunch of spuds being picked up with 4th and 5th rounders. unlikely to get any free agents to take these spots.

it was really dumb not to smooth this out and cut another one or two this year and have some more picks this year to reduce next years changes.

Sure it's dumb but why wouldn't we be able to get a free agent?

 

[baldandbroke]

I suspect if you are happy to renegotiate your contract for LESS money, most employers would do that with you.

So... sure. Why not.

Because stuff is set in place with these contracts. It puts another nail in the coffin for clubs in terms of what a contract means.

It adds more mud to the water when things like contract length and $$$ are used to determine compensation etc...

If players can terminate / renegotiate a contract at will - wouldn't that make it even harder to keep players from chasing the bigger clubs that can deliver "extras" and more on-field success (which means more finals bonuses etc...)?

Melbourne want it. Geelong want it. Oliver wants it. What about the other 16 clubs - I'd say they would prefer that Geelong didn't keep getting freebies OR Demons were stuck with the player and the contract.

Just feels like a bit of a trojan horse to me.

 

[Draft Bored]

Brisbane pair midfielder Dev Robertson and elite endurance runner Harry Sharp have told Brisna they'd like to be trafed, seems Harry Sharp has Melbourne interest given he's named his preferred destination.

Can't see them not getting to their preferred clubs given Brisbane will want points for Ashcroft and Marshall. Probably both good gets for their new clubs given they'll likely go for less than they're worth.

Dev Robertson highlights package: wearing no guernsey after it was ripped from his body... ends

 

[weekend at bernies]

I suspect if you are happy to renegotiate your contract for LESS money, most employers would do that with you.

So... sure. Why not.

so if he doesn't get traded can the demons renegotiate his deal for less money?

 

[MarcusP2]

so if he doesn't get traded can the demons renegotiate his deal for less money?

Yes, if Oliver agreed to it.

 

[MarcusP2]

Richmond loading up another top 20 pick.

 

[crow2crow]

Hint

The way clubs are prepared to trade out of next year's draft to get into this year's would seem to be a good indicator they don't see the 2025 draft as being particularly good.

Picks in this draft are obviously at a premium, good luck trying to procure them now or even earlier.

Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to bring in proven players.

this is exactly my point. we will have list spots to fill next year and a spud draft and no picks to fill it. by delisting more this year the picks are in this years draft.

 

[GreyCrow]

This talk about Oliver willing to take a pay cut ... how does that work?

Can a player just burn his current deal and start again? Does that not influence the existing club's future cap in any way?

Seems like a thin-edge of the wedge to me - is this a different version of Daniher re-doing his contract after the compensation pick is paid?

Not sure

Unless its a Bobby Bonilla type situation where he will be paid for years he doesnt play I'm not sure how it would work

The club takes on the onus with cap issues etc and not the player

Again unless he suddenly develops concussive issues and the AFL ' bail ' out Geelong the club who takes him on

 

[Coopers]

so if he doesn't get traded can the demons renegotiate his deal for less money?

They could if Oliver wanted to do that I guess. Why he would, I don't know.

The timing of trading him out and signing a different contract would also be odd. I doubt the AFL lets a trade happen only contingent on Oliver signing a lesser contract. So he'd have to "gentlemans agreement" it with the destination club, that he would sort it out post trade. And then if he wanted to be a jerk he could refuse to renegotiate his contract at that point.

Which would be funny. I'm voting for that option.

 

[Coopers]

Because stuff is set in place with these contracts. It puts another nail in the coffin for clubs in terms of what a contract means.

It adds more mud to the water when things like contract length and $$$ are used to determine compensation etc...

If players can terminate / renegotiate a contract at will - wouldn't that make it even harder to keep players from chasing the bigger clubs that can deliver "extras" and more on-field success (which means more finals bonuses etc...)?

Melbourne want it. Geelong want it. Oliver wants it. What about the other 16 clubs - I'd say they would prefer that Geelong didn't keep getting freebies OR Demons were stuck with the player and the contract.

Just feels like a bit of a trojan horse to me.

Well yeah, it's a concern, but we know that doesn't matter for Geelong. Need to prop them up.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Hint

The way clubs are prepared to trade out of next year's draft to get into this year's would seem to be a good indicator they don't see the 2025 draft as being particularly good.

Picks in this draft are obviously at a premium, good luck trying to procure them now or even earlier.

Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to bring in proven players.

I tell you what will produce some handy players

The 2025 mid season draft … of the unlucky ones that miss out in this deep draft

Given there seems to be 70+ good players in this draft , some will miss out and pop up in next years mid year , be interesting to see who lands there and whether we will be involved

 

[Mutineer]

I tell you what will produce some handy players

The 2025 mid season draft … of the unlucky ones that miss out in this deep draft

Given there seems to be 70+ good players in this draft , some will miss out and pop up in next years mid year , be interesting to see who lands there and whether we will be involved

We'll need to open up some list spots to be involved by the look.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We'll need to open up some list spots to be involved by the look.

Or have some injuries

 

[jackster83]

Or have some injuries

Smith would be a fair chance to retire if he's still languishing in the two's. He gets his money either way but can retire early and we free up a list spot.

 

[1990crow]

Hint

The way clubs are prepared to trade out of next year's draft to get into this year's would seem to be a good indicator they don't see the 2025 draft as being particularly good.

Picks in this draft are obviously at a premium, good luck trying to procure them now or even earlier.

Unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to bring in proven players.

Plus Mitchell Stevens F/S is next year isn't he?
Even if he goes pick 40-50 there's a pick we don't need to plan to have.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Smith would be a fair chance to retire if he's still languishing in the two's. He gets his money either way but can retire early and we free up a list spot.

Yep someone will fall over

Smith , Schoenberg , etc

Injuries always happen

 

[Danger in Texas]

Yep someone will fall over

Smith , Schoenberg , etc

Injuries always happen

I’d be shocked if we don’t have one season-ending injury by that point

We had two or three last year IIRC

 

[Vader]

We'll need to open up some list spots to be involved by the look.

Odds are that we'll have at least one season-ending injury by then, unfortunately.

Alternatively, Smith might decide to retire mid-season, once it becomes clear to him that he's never getting back into the AFL team.

 

[Mostyn]

Big Dub - they were some great posts.

A question. Did you look at, at the start of the rebuilds, how many senior players were cut?