List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[Jack McKraken]

Is that how it works?

So if we want to pay out a 2025 contract early and delist the player we have to do it in the 2024 cap?

Can we not pay them their contract in 2025, included in our 2025 salary cap payments but with them not taking up a list spot?

Unfortunately not. While there is an AFL discretion, the rule is all lump sum payments on termination of contract are taken to be paid in the year the contract is terminated (R28.22).

 

[crow2crow]

boyd isn't afl - too small

hes the sane as crossley and himmelberg

 

[Cromulant]

hes the sane as crossley and himmelberg

Yup and neither of them are AFL quality rucks.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

hes the sane as crossley and himmelberg

He’s not Elliot’s height

him and crossley are too short and Elliot’s not a ruck

 

[Vader]

If Strachan gets another contract I'm loading up the trailer with horseshit and heading over to dump it at the front door of the AFC.

I have never suggested that he would or should get a new contract, beyond his current one (which expires next year).

 

[Vader]

Is that how it works?

So if we want to pay out a 2025 contract early and delist the player we have to do it in the 2024 cap?

Yes, and it has always been that way.

Can we not pay them their contract in 2025, included in our 2025 salary cap payments but with them not taking up a list spot?

No. This is why clubs are sometimes forced to keep retired players on their lists - as we did with Gibbs, and Brisbane famously did with Michael Voss. Adelaide couldn't afford to include Gibbs' payout in their salary cap, so they put him on the rookie list, then the Inactive List, and filled the vacancy in the PSSP.

... but you can't do that with delisted players. The whole point of delisting them is to get them off the list.

 

[NTRabbit]

With the retirements of Walker and Smith, and the probable (voluntary or involuntary) departures of Burgess, Strachan, Murphy, Crouch, and Milera, and the potential for O'Brien, Schoenberg, Taylor, and Bond to also be on that list, there's no shortage of options for list turnover next year, but I just don't see them having the vision or desire to pay any of them out one year ahead of time. They don't actually want to get rid of any of them, never do until pushed.

The one that makes the most sense to move on for space now is Milera, as his time with us is long since up and it'd be a pre-agency trade, but with him being injured yet again, no one will actually give us anything of value for him. We're just going to have to tell him early next year that he won't be extended (we'll never do that though), and to start exploring his free agency options sooner rather than later (hopefully he does this on his own).

 

[1990crow]

With the retirements of Walker and Smith, and the probable (voluntary or involuntary) departures of Burgess, Strachan, Murphy, Crouch, and Milera, and the potential for O'Brien, Schoenberg, Taylor, and Bond to also be on that list, there's no shortage of options for list turnover next year, but I just don't see them having the vision or desire to pay any of them out one year ahead of time. They don't actually want to get rid of any of them, never do until pushed.

The one that makes the most sense to move on for space now is Milera, as his time with us is long since up and it'd be a pre-agency trade, but with him being injured yet again, no one will actually give us anything of value for him. We're just going to have to tell him early next year that he won't be extended (we'll never do that though), and to start exploring his free agency options sooner rather than later (hopefully he does this on his own).

Every chance Smith and Schoenberg are on the rookie list next year.

So in terms of main list changes Tex, Burgess, Strachan, Murphy are the only obvious moves. And even then you'd think they'd give Murphy another year.

Crouch if he plays most of the year will probably result in a one year extension.

Milera if he can get fit and play some games in second half of year (looking good) I think he'd rather stay at the Crows even if it's for a small deal.

I don't think they'll be wanting to be making too many list changes next year.

Maybe a free agent, F1 or traded in player, F3 and father son in, and possibly a rookie upgrade.
So Max 5 changes.

 

[Redline]

If Strachan gets another contract I'm loading up the trailer with horseshit and heading over to dump it at the front door of the AFC.

No chance of that. I think he will retire.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Chatting to a Crows mate today - we both agreed, can't remember that last time we have traded a player away and got genuine overs for them. Like proper 'made out like bandits' overs....

we always seem to pay fair premium market rates for players but just cant seem to get lucky with a trade our way or the BS 'Band 1' compo crap the VFL dishes up.

Last year, Melbourne's future 2nd for McAdam.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Last year, Melbourne's future 2nd for McAdam.

I'll partly concede on McAdam but it was only slightly overs IMO as McAdam had some handy games in 2022/23 and Melb were desperate for forwards.

I'm more talking about a deal where we get a first round pick for McHenry sort of thing.

Like Freo getting pick 2 for Lachie Weller sort of level of trade in our favour.

 

[Mutineer]

Jeffcrowe

Seems keen?

VFL star getting prepared in case second AFL chance comes his way

He has starred for the Sharks.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Jeffcrowe

Seems keen?

VFL star getting prepared in case second AFL chance comes his way

He has starred for the Sharks.

www.sen.com.au

Given we are a ROB injury away from ruining a season, surely we should be looking to get another ruckman on our list.

 

[1990crow]

Given we are a ROB injury away from ruining a season, surely we should be looking to get another ruckman on our list.

That's the scary part.
We have a ruck who really should be replaced, but his backup is uncompetitive at AFL level.
Even if you drafted an 18 year old we would be in the same position given they'd be 3 years of development away.

Possible Draper rumours isnt the stupidest idea so that they battle it out and one of them becomes the backup.
Whilst also looking for a young developing ruck - Goad or Dobson.

 

[Mutineer]

Given we are a ROB injury away from ruining a season, surely we should be looking to get another ruckman on our list.

If not I'd be hoping they put a lot of work into Murray Jr's ruck craft this upcoming pre-season and give him a lot more exposure at SANFL because he's the future not Strachan until we actually recruit or draft a ruck.

 

[1990crow]

If not I'd be hoping they put a lot of work into Murray Jr's ruck craft this upcoming pre-season and give him a lot more exposure at SANFL because he's the future not Strachan until we actually recruit or draft a ruck.

Just the bits a pieces I've seen Murray jnr looks more like a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

I.e. Thilthorpe backup, or future Tex replacement if Welsh doesn't come on.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If not I'd be hoping they put a lot of work into Murray Jr's ruck craft this upcoming pre-season and give him a lot more exposure at SANFL because he's the future not Strachan until we actually recruit or draft a ruck.

Absolutely, but imo we should draft in a cheap ready backup ruck option & delsit Strachan given he can't run out 4 quarters of AFL.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Just the bits a pieces I've seen Murray jnr looks more like a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

I.e. Thilthorpe backup, or future Tex replacement if Welsh doesn't come on.

EH replacement, or hopefully better

 

[1970crow]

Because stuff is set in place with these contracts. It puts another nail in the coffin for clubs in terms of what a contract means.

It adds more mud to the water when things like contract length and $$$ are used to determine compensation etc...

If players can terminate / renegotiate a contract at will - wouldn't that make it even harder to keep players from chasing the bigger clubs that can deliver "extras" and more on-field success (which means more finals bonuses etc...)?

Melbourne want it. Geelong want it. Oliver wants it. What about the other 16 clubs - I'd say they would prefer that Geelong didn't keep getting freebies OR Demons were stuck with the player and the contract.

Just feels like a bit of a trojan horse to me.

Compensation doesn't apply to contracted players. And players can't terminate at will, Melbourne aren't forced to let him go unless they get the deal that they want. The original club is still protected to the extent that they want to be.

 

[1970crow]

Not sure you can combine both the compensation received AND then how we spent it. They are seperate issues.eg if we hypothetically got way unders for MM at pick 45 but then drafted Soligo (exceptional drafting) it throws up an erroneous result

My view traded out - CC (pick 12 excellent result. The normally Mr Rational, Vader, from memory didn’t think that result was possible. CC had only played he one exceptional game but did have huge promise with his physical gifts).

• MM overs
• Lever overs
• McAdam slight overs

Traded in

• Gibbs ridiculers overs due to Fagan
• Dawson - huge unders
• Rankine - fair value IMO knowing his immense talent, most thought overs
• ANB - slight overs but quite immaterial with only needing to pick up Welsh
• Burgess - didn’t pay anything meaningful (nor should we of)

Overall all, Reid has been very solid in this area in recent years

Immaterial? We're trying to get Peatling too and having to use future draft picks which we'll need. You only have to look forward 1 draft to see how paying overs for ANB will hurt us.

 

[FR0GGY]

Rob on less money is what you want as a backup ruck.

 

[1970crow]

Is that how it works?

So if we want to pay out a 2025 contract early and delist the player we have to do it in the 2024 cap?

Can we not pay them their contract in 2025, included in our 2025 salary cap payments but with them not taking up a list spot?

No, remember we had to keep Gibbs on our list even though he went and played for South. Swans had to keep Tippett on their list for a year or 2 as well. We should have enough to pay out Smith though as we did with Brown. Reports Stringer's trigger clause was $400k, surely Brodie's not dissimilar to that.

 

[Mutineer]

Just the bits a pieces I've seen Murray jnr looks more like a forward/ruck than a ruck/forward.

I.e. Thilthorpe backup, or future Tex replacement if Welsh doesn't come on.

That's more because he's never had a lot exposure to actually playing ruck for extended periods at the Murray Bushrangers/Allies or with the Crows in the SANFL, though he did a fair bit more at the Bushies than with us.

He has the size and strength just needs the time put into his ruck craft this preseason and then way more exposure at SANFL to see what he's got, nothing much to lose plenty to gain.
Strachan just isn't competitive at AFL level, certainly not endurance wise and I'd be really pissed off if Thilthorpe had to fill in if ROB went down.

Let's face it they're not bringing in a ruck this trade/draft period. Options are pretty skinny if ROB goes down.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

That's more because he's never had a lot exposure to actually playing ruck for extended periods at the Murray Bushrangers/Allies or with the Crows in the SANFL, though he did a fair bit more at the Bushies than with us.

He has the size and strength just needs the time put into his ruck craft this preseason and then way more exposure at SANFL to see what he's got, nothing much to lose plenty to gain.
Strachan just isn't competitive at AFL level, certainly not endurance wise and I'd be really pissed off if Thilthorpe had to fill in if ROB went down.

Let's face it they're not bringing in a ruck this trade/draft period. Options are pretty skinny if ROB goes down.

Agree with all of this but if this is the mindset of our coaches/list management (that we’d rather train Murray into a ruck than play Strachan), surely we’re better off paying out Strachan and bringing in ruck depth.

 

[Mutineer]

Agree with all of this but if this is the mindset of our coaches/list management (that we’d rather train Murray into a ruck than play Strachan), surely we’re better off paying out Strachan and bringing in ruck depth.

Murray can go back to the Forward/Ruck role at any time.
Let's face it it's unlikely the club would pay out Strachan at this point in time without having contingency plans in place. Just not happening IMO.