List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[1970crow]

You're probably right - I'd say about 80% ND vs 20% RD at this stage. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility of upgrading 2 rookies. They're almost certainly not paying players out.

I get that forwards don't need to run midfielder-level times in the 2 km time trial, but 3 weeks is a slow 2 km time in anyone's books (only a slight exaggeration).

I doubt he'd last to the RD and we're all but certain to take him in the ND.

 

[Dangarman]

If we delist say Burgess and Schoenberg - I'd assume we would commit to re-rookie them - would it still be possible for another club to pick one or both of them up in the ND?

 

[Mostyn]

Has there been a post that succinctly summarises our list spaces, rookies, elevations etc etc and what we will likely be drafting?

Is it basically 4, Welsh, and an upgrade
Or
4, and 2x upgrades then;
Rookie Welsh then pass on the rest?

Is there a minimum no. Of rookie picks you need to make? Or can you pass from the get go?

Who is even on our rookie list? Can't see it on the AFC site.

We really need to sticky one of Vader's posts.

 

[Mostyn]

If we delist say Burgess and Schoenberg - I'd assume we would commit to re-rookie them - would it still be possible for another club to pick one or both of them up in the ND?

Yes, someone picking before our rookie pick could take them.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Are player contracts in general getting longer? Seems to be more long-termers for club's top 10 players now

Used to be that a 3 year deal was regarded as a long term contract and an Alastair Lynch 10-yearer was a standout anomaly.

 

[DJ75]

Are player contracts in general getting longer? Seems to be more long-termers for club's top 10 players now

Used to be that a 3 year deal was regarded as a long term contract and an Alastair Lynch 10-yearer was a standout anomaly.

Yeh it's interesting, because I normally think these things are pushed by the player managers. But a long term deal seem to work against a player managers interest.
Maybe club are using it more and more to smooth out player payments?

 

[Mutineer]

Thankfully Rowe isn't on the Crows list management...clueless.

Rowey & Timmy G react to Port delistings - The FIVEAA Sports Show

Listen live on the FIVEAA Player. Follow us on Facebook, X and Instagram.

omny.fm

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yeh it's interesting, because I normally think these things are pushed by the player managers. But a long term deal seem to work against a player managers interest.
Maybe club are using it more and more to smooth out player payments?

Maybe it's just the salary cap in action. If dollars can't increase, the only remaining lever is duration

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Thankfully Rowe isn't on the Crows list management...clueless.

Rowey & Timmy G react to Port delistings - The FIVEAA Sports Show

Listen live on the FIVEAA Player. Follow us on Facebook, X and Instagram.

omny.fm

OMG. Rowey would look at Clurey for the Crows. We delisted better players.

 

[jenny61_99]

Are player contracts in general getting longer? Seems to be more long-termers for club's top 10 players now

Used to be that a 3 year deal was regarded as a long term contract and an Alastair Lynch 10-yearer was a standout anomaly.

Contracts aren't worth shit. Houston still had 3 years to go... now with Collingwood.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Contracts aren't worth shit. Houston still had 3 years to go... now with Collingwood.

They're worth shit to the player and worth shit to the clubs in terms of trade power

 

[woofsson]

Surprised to read that Carlton delisted 8 players and traded 2
(Dom Akuei (delisted), Jack Carroll (delisted), Matt Carroll (delisted), David Cuningham

28

David Cuningham

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.3

5star

G

0.5

3star

D

12.1

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.6

5star

G

0.4

3star

(delisted), Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

(delisted), Matt Kennedy (trade), Caleb Marchbank (delisted), Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

(delisted), Alex Mirkov (delisted), Matt Owies (trade)).
While we only delisted 4.
Are we that much better than Carlton or this is a missed opportunity to further massage the shape (using the term advisedly) of our list?

 

[jenny61_99]

They're worth shit to the player and worth shit to the clubs in terms of trade power

But are they though? It seems to me everyone is getting to where they want to go for the most part. Port got into the first round of the draft, they got Lukosius (and a bonus Rat ).

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Surprised to read that Carlton delisted 8 players and traded 2
(Dom Akuei (delisted), Jack Carroll (delisted), Matt Carroll (delisted), David Cuningham (delisted), Sam Durdin (delisted), Matt Kennedy (trade), Caleb Marchbank (delisted), Jack Martin (delisted), Alex Mirkov (delisted), Matt Owies (trade)).
While we only delisted 4.
Are we that much better than Carlton or this is a missed opportunity to further massage the shape (using the term advisedly) of our list?

Supposedly we've done our heavy culling and are at a different stage

Presumably we drew up out list management blueprint back in the dire 2020 season when rebuild realisation dawned and we're sticking to it.

Unseen variables like a strong draft pool, some contracted seniors falling away, some draftees not looking up to it etc aren't factored in.

 

[JPetro83]

Is there a draft thread? somewhere where to discuss pick 4?

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Is there a draft thread? somewhere where to discuss pick 4?

We do, just take dogs105 off ignore.

 

[Scorpus]

Maybe it's just the salary cap in action. If dollars can't increase, the only remaining lever is duration

The squads that teams like Geelong, Richmond, Carlton and Melbourne have built is due to clever use of front and back loading. When you're shit, front load, and when you're good, back load. The only way you can manipulate like this is with long contracts and often these teams have been accused of salary cap cheating because of it.

I think a lot of other clubs have been slow to adopt that strategy, but whenever there's innovation, other clubs eventually follow.

Because of the forced salary cap floor theres no such thing as a year to year warchest. The only thing you can stockpile is a lack of long contracts, giving you more flexibility down the line. Again the teams that are thinking about a 6 to 8 year salary plan are further ahead of the game than those thinking about just the next year or two.

I think it's less about players wanting longer deals and more about clubs using them to build stronger squads now and paying for it later

 

[Mostyn]

The only player I really think we should have exited was Brodie.

Even Burgess I sort of understand - our tall depth is pretty limited, and he's a warm body.

I guess the option of somehow getting Smith to retire and bring our F1 into this year wasn't an option they wanted. Maybe they feel keeping the F1 for next year will be valuable.

 

[Carn The Texan]

The only player I really think we should have exited was Brodie.

Even Burgess I sort of understand - our tall depth is pretty limited, and he's a warm body.

I guess the option of somehow getting Smith to retire and bring our F1 into this year wasn't an option they wanted. Maybe they feel keeping the F1 for next year will be valuable.

Agree. Find a coaching or development spot for him in the soft cap if we absolutely had to. We've got plenty of depth off half back now, even without Hamill.

 

[whattagun07]

Agree. Find a coaching or development spot for him in the soft cap if we absolutely had to. We've got plenty of depth off half back now, even without Hamill.

Give him a job having beers in the Bunker with Mods

 

[Danger in Texas]

The only player I really think we should have exited was Brodie.

Even Burgess I sort of understand - our tall depth is pretty limited, and he's a warm body.

I guess the option of somehow getting Smith to retire and bring our F1 into this year wasn't an option they wanted. Maybe they feel keeping the F1 for next year will be valuable.

I mean it’ll help with getting a NWM deal across the line, if that has any chance of happening

 

[1990crow]

I mean it’ll help with getting a NWM deal across the line, if that has any chance of happening

Personally think that's the reason to not do it.

 

[Big Dub]

Surprised to read that Carlton delisted 8 players and traded 2
(Dom Akuei (delisted), Jack Carroll (delisted), Matt Carroll (delisted), David Cuningham (delisted), Sam Durdin (delisted), Matt Kennedy (trade), Caleb Marchbank (delisted), Jack Martin (delisted), Alex Mirkov (delisted), Matt Owies (trade)).
While we only delisted 4.
Are we that much better than Carlton or this is a missed opportunity to further massage the shape (using the term advisedly) of our list?

I'd much rather our trade and draft outcome than Carlton's. I at least know what we're trying to do.

They got rid of a lot of older/ fringe players that weren't really adding to the now or future (which we should have done). Tick.

They traded up to end up with a pretty similar draft hand to us, plus a late second. Tick.

Plus 2 extra picks in the late 60s. Speculative, particularly for a team that just made finals. Question mark.
 
But they also got rid of their best small forward (3rd best fwd overall) and a best 22 mid, both 27, and traded in a 32yo defender. To get a pick in the 70s. Massive cross.

They go into next year with no first, potentially the last second round pick available, and their natural 3rd and 4th.

We, on the other hand, picked up 3 best 22 players (aged 24 to 28) in areas of known weakness. Making us better for the now and the future. We lost our 2nd for next year, but have a first, 3 x 3rds and 2 x 4ths with 6 to 8 players coming out of contract next year that I would be happy exiting.

 

[MRB37]

Maybe it's just the salary cap in action. If dollars can't increase, the only remaining lever is duration

Players/managers using Free Agency as well. Normally you'd offer guy 3/4 years on a deal, they get pushed out to 5/6/7 years to either convince a guy to stay, or entice a guy to move clubs.

Like did Tex ever get longer than a 3/4 year deal at a time? I reckon he did 3 year deals every time. If they had free agency in 2012 or 2015 he'd of gotten a 6/7 year deal probably.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Surprised to read that Carlton delisted 8 players and traded 2
(Dom Akuei (delisted), Jack Carroll (delisted), Matt Carroll (delisted), David Cuningham (delisted), Sam Durdin (delisted), Matt Kennedy (trade), Caleb Marchbank (delisted), Jack Martin (delisted), Alex Mirkov (delisted), Matt Owies (trade)).
While we only delisted 4.
Are we that much better than Carlton or this is a missed opportunity to further massage the shape (using the term advisedly) of our list?

Carlton have established depth and want to get into the draft to conduct a semi rebuild of their roster. Its good aggressive list management to make sure they are around the mark for years to come. We have done well. Pick 4, Peatling, ANB, Cummings and Welsh. Thats a good off season. Our list isnt that bad. Just has some more dead wood to remove but they will get tossed next year. We will likely bring in some FA.

Plus the draft is an educated lottery and removing that much experience from your depth and relying on the draft to replace those players comes at an enormous risk. Only have to get 2 of them wrong and another 2 to be mediocre and its a bust regardless if what the others bring.