List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[SaintsSeptember]

Meanwhile its being discussed by the media that Yeo thinks he's being lowballed at 750k.

 

[beside the seaside]

We're probably not going to know the outcome with Battle for a while. His management have played it perfectly, he's getting better and proving his worth and definitely adding $ to his contract.

If we lose him we're going backwards. Even if we get a top ten pick for him. We absolutely have to pony up. If he wants out then that's concerning to me. Why would he want to move down the road to Dingley? He seems to love the club though.

My feeling is we'll pony up and he'll stay, but it will be a nervous wait.

 

[StCicatriz]

Because it’s a flawed concept that implies every club was always taking the very next player as you implied.

And you then say well pick 4 has plenty of busts when you are talking about players taken 6/7/8.

If You are doing a comparison of the draft, you want to show the talent available at the pick.

So in 2021: 4+5 = N Daicos and Mac Andrew.

We don’t know how each club rates the players. But the next 5 picks in the draft:

Rachele Ward Amiss Gibcus Erasmus

It then provides context to the actual strength of the draft.

So in your example, Rachele and Ward. Thats meh

But it could have easily have been Rachele and Amiss or Gibcus.

All of a sudden that’s a good draft based on the potential of the players available

There is also the variable that we are picking back to back picks that you can’t factor in.

Editing my post to add this which just takes the picks at face value.

Over the history of the draft
View attachment 2017170

we can't select diacos. no one can. you are after a true reflection on what a club can pick at 4 and 5.

i am ok with looking further down the draft order.

the fact this has your back up tells me you're not happy with the idea that taking in pick 5 might not be as fruitful as you've been promoting.

the worst case scenario here is we lose battle and don't find an elite mid. which can happen if it doesn't trigger band 1... if we start to climb the ladder... if the draft depth doesn't offer an elite mid... if we pick the wrong player... or if we don't develop them into an elite mid.

there's more that can go wrong here than that can go right.

but what we do have is a very consistent and attacking CHB. they don't grow on trees.

 

[Joffaboy]

If we don't get band 1, and we lose Battle for a Gresham like pick, that will just about be it for me.
I have been to one game this year, my circumstances have changed and have an MCC Membership.
The only possibility us getting decent mids to give us hope is two top ten picks and early ones.
Another draft of one pick while booster clubs get free NGA's and legacy clubs get no.1 F/S picks will destroy any hope I have left.
Hope, we get that with some top end dps, but that's all. If we lose Battle we have to get band 1, otherwise we are a lost cause and I can't justify the $600 a year when the club isn't maximising player talent by either keeping Josh or getting a top ten dp, and the AFL treat us with contempt wanting us to be the Washington Generals.
It is demoralising.

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[StCicatriz]

McClure and Cleary discussing Hawks and Pies into Josh Battle… how he is unlikely to get 900k+… more likely to trigger end of first round compo and land saints an early-mid 20s pick.

Sam mentions briefly big Ro having his head turned by offers from other clubs all in the first 15 min of episode.

this is what people are fearing

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Jack Steele doesn't run our Club. He's an average to good midfielder at best. And if he has an attitude problem with the Senior Coach he should be moved on forthwith.

He is "rated" as third best on our list, behind Marshall and Sinclair and just ahead of Wilkie, and he apparently can do things no-one else on our list can , because no-one else does.

 

[stavro#4]

Given you rarely ever pot the club, if this happens will you say it was stupid and the club ****ed up?

I have no issue potting the club.

If the difference is 50k they would be stupid not to.

They would be stupid to sit there and be hard and firm just like they were with Gresham - however Battle is exceeding their value - whereas they got Gresham spot on.

Flipside, Battle is also not a sign at any cost player and the same applies if we tied him to a 1m+ deal for 7 years. I would be dirty on the club.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Umm cough cough if Steele was even half the player those guys are we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Player ratings have De-Goey at 55 , and Steele at 62. Subjectively i tend to agree, and its not Steele's best year.

 

[phantom13]

I think part of the issue for us with player retention is what else do we offer but the cash?

We’re not a big club, we’re not a successful club, we’re playing horrible footy right now, the players look tired and flat (that’s my observation, could be wrong).

Plenty of players from other teams sign on for less money for some of those intangibles, I can’t think of a single reason for someone like Josh to not take the hawks offer if it’s the same or slightly more than ours.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

well i took one positive out of that=competition,collingwood and hawthorn,if either one,especially hawthorn after last year really want him and dont want to lose,they will go higher

but honestly if he goes for less than 900k and we get band 2,im happy to just move on,its an internal issue or a battle issue,or both,but if he goes for 900k plus and we are not given band 1,we as a club really have no hope ever,i think that would be as good as the afl telling us that directly

at that point we might as well make it all about little wins at the trade table and gaining high picks,maybe sandy winning a flag,because we aint winning a flag

Can you name any free agent who went to another club for what should have been band 1 money, and the club did not receive band 1?

 

[stavro#4]

we can't select diacos. no one can. you are after a true reflection on what a club can pick at 4 and 5.

i am ok with looking further down the draft order.

the fact this has your back up tells me you're not happy with the idea that taking in pick 5 might not be as fruitful as you've been promoting.

the worst case scenario here is we lose battle and don't find an elite mid. which can happen if it doesn't trigger band 1... if we start to climb the ladder... if the draft depth doesn't offer an elite mid... if we pick the wrong player... or if we don't develop them into an elite mid.

there's more that can go wrong here than that can go right.

but what we do have is a very consistent and attacking CHB. they don't grow on trees.

I’m strictly talking about the concept of applying the next pick as the next player. It’s a flawed concept as I pointed out why. I know we can’t draft Daicos - it’s about showing the quality of the draft and the next handful of picks provides the depth to what that pick would be selecting from when highlighting what’s available. Not that we would land the very next pick.

All I’m promoting is that we need genuine A grade mids. That we won’t win anything without them.

 

[Joffaboy]

I think part of the issue for us with player retention is what else do we offer but the cash?

We’re not a big club, we’re not a successful club, we’re playing horrible footy right now, the players look tired and flat (that’s my observation, could be wrong).

Plenty of players from other teams sign on for less money for some of those intangibles, I can’t think of a single reason for someone like Josh to not take the hawks offer if it’s the same or slightly more than ours.

Roo was offered much more by Collingwood but stayed at the Saints.

I know from the mowman days Battle was unhappy at the club but when Lyon took over he was very happy.

If he gets between 900-1 mill he needs to take it and run. That is outrageous figures for someone of his ability.

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[SaintsSeptember]

But couldn’t possibly be disapponted that the saints won’t give him an extra $50k right?

If he walks for $850k and we get band 2 we’re gonna look ****ing stupid.

At the same time , if we were to up our offer by 50K right now, do you think his agent would suggest signing, or hold off and see if we'll go higher?

 

[gringo2011]

The culture of the Club cannot be dicated by a few "unhappy" players, that's not a path we want to go down.

A coach is a guy who's relationships are everything. You might have got away with being a tough guy 15 years ago but this generation isn't into the tough love game. They've been coddled and boosted all the way through. They are emotionally literate and demand their softness be catered for.

 

[jimmytigs]

Can you name any free agent who went to another club for what should have been band 1 money, and the club did not receive band 1?

certainly not off top of my head,but we are the saints,im far from saying it will happen,the if is present,but it is the kind of thing we shouldnt discount,hey battle stays,or we get band 1,all good,but you have to think screwing us is a possibility,well i have to anyway

 

[gringo2011]

I first became a member in 1973.

I’ve ridden through 52 years of pain and hardship with this club.

I’ve endured years where we’ve hardly won a game. Endless wooden spoons and the real prospect of folding.

I’ve seen Tony Lockett, one of the only bright spots in our horror years be traded to Sydney.

I’ve had the rare prospect of a premiership ripped from my heart in 1997, 2009 & 2010.

I’ve watched the club appoint a dwarf as coach and seen him turn into a maniacal, psychotic dwarf.

I’ve been through all that and yet I’m still here.

However, the appointment of gringo2011 as an administrator of our club would indeed finish me off

Yet if we'd done half of the shit I've suggested we would have a flag by now or at least have stayed competitive. You sir are a pain pr0n addict.

 

[StCicatriz]

If we haven't been smart enough to offer him enough salary to take him to the door of Band One comp, we should probably just fold and stop wasting people's time.

Band one is worth it - just.
Band two is pointless. We got done with Gresham, let's not let it happen again.

i agree entirely

what i would say though is i think the problem is the clubs might not know what triggers band 1. i think they might have a ballpark idea but its not a guaranteed and i think it's going to change between now and when the FA period opens up.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

A coach is a guy who's relationships are everything. You might have got away with being a tough guy 15 years ago but this generation isn't into the tough love game. They've been coddled and boosted all the way through. They are emotionally literate and demand their softness be catered for.

I don’t know about that - someone posted a video of Joey and Roo talking shit here recently and Roo
said that Pou has been receiving “negative criticism” (whatever that is?) of late …...

 

[stfan]

Just bear in mind that our first pick may not be pick 4.

It could be anywhere from say 4 to 10. Currently more likely lower than higher.

The higher we go, the more likely a matched pick bumps it lower as well.

If Yeo does go as a FA, probably unlikely but he may, that slides us down 1 as well if he generates Band 1, though he may not generate band 1.

 

[Saint believer]

Clarko was saying a few weeks back that they see Comben playing forward.

Logue is undersized and Corr has been utter dog shit

I’ll say they still need key backs

How about we give them pick 4 and Howard for Pick 1?

 

[StCicatriz]

This

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bars higher for me...

band 1 isn't enough. band 1 could mean pick 8. it needs to actually produce an elite mid. that means at an absolute minimum a top 4 pick before the NGA's and F/S kick in. it also means they need to nail that selection and actually get a full time mid. not a forward pocket. not a half forward. not a winger. not a KPP.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

certainly not off top of my head,but we are the saints,im far from saying it will happen,the if is present,but it is the kind of thing we shouldnt discount,hey battle stays,or we get band 1,all good,but you have to think screwing us is a possibility,well i have to anyway

I think they apply the formula more rigidly than some people think.
The media try to stir things up by making a big deal of Buddy netting late round 1 compo and James Frawley an early pick, but that was to do with the respective spots on the ladder of the Hawks and Melbourne at the time.

 

[jimmytigs]

If we don't get band 1, and we lose Battle for a Gresham like pick, that will just about be it for me.
I have been to one game this year, my circumstances have changed and have an MCC Membership.
The only possibility us getting decent mids to give us hope is two top ten picks and early ones.
Another draft of one pick while booster clubs get free NGA's and legacy clubs get no.1 F/S picks will destroy any hope I have left.
Hope, we get that with some top end dps, but that's all. If we lose Battle we have to get band 1, otherwise we are a lost cause and I can't justify the $600 a year when the club isn't maximising player talent by either keeping Josh or getting a top ten dp, and the AFL treat us with contempt wanting us to be the Washington Generals.
It is demoralising.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

this is the way i feel also,but lost cause or not i know i wouldnt stick with walking away,so i wont say it,certainly couldnt just pick up with another team

only saints blatantly screwing ourselves could do that,like with some of the rumours with that shiel business last season

but the afl doing it too us,dont think i could walk away

 

[Brian Oblivion]

How about we give them pick 4 and Howard for Pick 1?

That’s overs imo.

 

[stavro#4]

this is the way i feel also,but lost cause or not i know i wouldnt stick with walking away,so i wont say it,certainly couldnt just pick up with another team

only saints blatantly screwing ourselves could do that,like with some of the rumours with that shiel business last season

but the afl doing it too us,dont think i could walk away

Blatantly screwing ourselves?

We could offer more and he could walk for less.

It’s the unrestricted free agency crapshoot