List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[stavro#4]

Dalrymple pick up. Can’t wait to see what he can do for us

Helpfully more than he did with Sydney's first rounder that year.

Wasn’t Amartey taken in the 2017 rookie draft?

Dalrymple joined in 2018

 

[PoppedCorn]

Depth - Clark, dow, Sharman, Heath, Hastie, Garcia. Stocker Picks 4+5

 

[gringo2011]

Wasn’t Amartey taken in the 2017 rookie draft?

Dalrymple joined in 2018

I have been saying that we should have tried to pick him ups for years. He looked great in the VFL for ages. They obviously had him biding time behind Buddy but you would have thought that he'd have been gettable.

 

[stavro#4]

I have been saying that we should have tried to pick him ups for years. He looked great in the VFL for ages. They obviously had him biding time behind Buddy but you would have thought that he'd have been gettable.

They did try for McLean around those years.

 

[Mav3rick]

So I started to put together what I think our 23/squad should look like in 2 years time if we want to contend. Interestingly it wasn’t as far away as I thought it might be… obviously lots of water to go under the bridge, but I think we should push marshal forward and bring in a big ruck, we also need LDU and some mid depth and tall back depth. Not new news for most of this… but this is where i see us end up.

JWebs Howard Wilkie
Sincs Hammer NAS
Wood LDU Hill
Marshal Keeler Higgins
Butler King Colard

Big Ruck Steele Windy

Pou (mid/forward) Owans (mid/forward) arie (HB) Henry (mid /forward) Wilson (wing/forward)

Depth - Clark, dow, Sharman, Heath, Hastie, Garcia. Stocker Picks 4+5

Questions to be answered -Battle stay or go, LDU, Big Ruck, Cama in backline (if battle goes), Keeler.

I honestly think we could do top 4 with this team if everyone comes on….

Disagree with the big ruck thing, Marshall is a gun and ruck is clearly his best position. Not that having two couldn't work, but anyone worth recruiting would be too big of an investment when those resources could go towards bigger needs like mids and goal kickers. Hill and Wood will be 32 by then so probably depth at best, I think Webster will be done also.

I think the 23 could look like this:

Wilkie ? ?
Sinclair Battle NAS
Wilson Steele ?
Henry Caminiti ?
Higgins King Phillipou
Marshall Windhager ?

Owens, Dow, Schoenmakers, Clark, Butler/Collard

Depth: Stocker, Garcia, Sharman, Heath, Keeler, Hastie, etc.

I think if all five of those question marks were filled with gun players, be it young guys already on the list, recruits or draft picks, we could be a very good side in 2-3 years. The backline in particular if we found upgrades for Howard and Webster could be elite.

 

[gringo2011]

They did try for McLean around those years.

McLean was good too but Amartey was already looking like a natural replacement for Buddy. Looked really good in the VFL. Played a bit of a ruck forward role and I was on here talking him up.I reckon you could have got him for a second round pick back then. Would have been a bargain.

 

[stavro#4]

Just with the Dalrymple conversation.

This is Sydney’s Draft choices. He got to the club in 2018.

Sydney - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The choices from 18-20’ - even allowing for the gifts like Blakey and Gulden are outstanding. This also includes the blown pick of Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

at 5.

 

[gringo2011]

Disagree with the big ruck thing, Marshall is a gun and ruck is clearly his best position. Not that having two couldn't work, but anyone worth recruiting would be too big of an investment when those resources could go towards bigger needs like mids and goal kickers. Hill and Wood will be 32 by then so probably depth at best, I think Webster will be done also.

I think the 23 could look like this:

Wilkie ? ?
Sinclair Battle NAS
Wilson Steele ?
Henry Caminiti ?
Higgins King Phillipou
Marshall Windhager ?

Owens, Dow, Schoenmakers, Clark, Butler/Collard

Depth: Stocker, Garcia, Sharman, Heath, Keeler, Hastie, etc.

I think if all five of those question marks were filled with gun players, be it young guys already on the list, recruits or draft picks, we could be a very good side in 2-3 years. The backline in particular if we found upgrades for Howard and Webster could be elite.

Don't think there was much wrong with Campbell to be honest but worth looking at guys like Bryan and Moyle and seeing what they'd cost.

Maybe even give Heath the rest of the year to see where he's at. Drop him forward for half the time and share the role with Roma.

I reckon our backline is already very good. To me small forward and true mids are the ones we need a serious upgrades and depth for.

If your onballers are good you can cover a lot of other spots with GOPs. Geelong did it with a list not unlike ours with a lot of outside run, average rucks and a solid back 6. Their POD with us is their forward line which had a much more dominant and varied set up. Miers, Stengle, Cameron, Rowan, Tomahawk etc. It was much more potent than our set up.

 

[gringo2011]

Just with the Dalrymple conversation.

This is Sydney’s Draft choices. He got to the club in 2018.

Sydney - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The choices from 18-20’ - even allowing for the gifts like Blakey and Gulden are outstanding. This also includes the blown pick of Dylan Stephens at 5.

Their academy kids made a huge difference. Warner was the absolute smash out of the park pick up. Getting an elite mid from nowhere is good business. Don't think it is outstandingly better than the work Toce did to be honest.

They actually blew quite a few picks in that time. It shows that you can luck your way out of the dark. Surely we are due a huge pile of elite talent, no club has struggled to find elite talent in the draft era more than us.

 

[stavro#4]

Their academy kids made a huge difference. Warner was the absolute smash out of the park pick up. Getting an elite mid from nowhere is good business. Don't think it is outstandingly better than the work Toce did to be honest.

They actually blew quite a few picks in that time. It shows that you can luck your way out of the dark. Surely we are due a huge pile of elite talent, no club has struggled to find elite talent in the draft era more than us.

I’ll exclude Academy picks for you. Tell me how the below isn’t outstanding.

Pick 25 - James Rowbottom
Pick 44 - Justin McInerney
Pre season pick - Hayden McLean
Pick 39 - Chad Warner
Pick 4 - Logan McDonald (was considered a reach here)
Pick 5 - Braedan Campbell
Pick 34 - Matt Roberts
Unregistered player selection - Sam Wicks


The last 2 drafts yet to debut as the swans are pretty stacked - so they can develop without pressure.

They have blown 1 major pick. Dylan Stephens.

Worth noting. From 18 - 23 finishing positions.

6, 15, 16, 6, 3,8

1 x Grand final appearance
2 x prelims.

Oh, here are our picks. Exclude Owens and Windhager as they are academy - just like I did for Blakey and Gulden.

Ours are dog shit.

St Kilda - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

In actual fact, SOS involved in all of: Stocker Caminiti and Shoenmakers selection - very much improve the recruitment we have done.

 

[BrutThough]

I’ll exclude Academy picks for you. Tell me how the below isn’t outstanding.

Pick 25 - James Rowbottom
Pick 44 - Justin McInerney
Pre season pick - Hayden McLean
Pick 39 - Chad Warner
Pick 4 - Logan McDonald (was considered a reach here)
Pick 5 - Braedan Campbell
Pick 34 - Matt Roberts
Unregistered player selection - Sam Wicks


The last 2 drafts yet to debut as the swans are pretty stacked - so they can develop without pressure.

They have blown 1 major pick. Dylan Stephens.

Worth noting. From 18 - 23 finishing positions.

6, 15, 16, 6, 3,8

1 x Grand final appearance
2 x prelims.

Oh, here are our picks. Exclude Owens and Windhager as they are academy - just like I did for Blakey and Gulden.

Ours are dog shit.

St Kilda - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

In actual fact, SOS involved in all of: Stocker Caminiti and Shoenmakers selection - very much improve the recruitment we have done.

Campbell was an academy pick.

McDonald wasn't considered a reach at all. Everyone expected North to take him the pick before Sydney's but North went with Phillips which blew up every first round phantom draft.

It was also 3 picks in the 2019 draft they screwed up before taking Warner at pick 39.

He's a good recruiter but he's got as many screw up as anyone else.

 

[stavro#4]

Campbell was an academy pick.

McDonald wasn't considered a reach at all. Everyone expected North to take him the pick before Sydney's but North went with Phillips which blew up every first round phantom draft.

It was also 3 picks in the 2019 draft they screwed up before taking Warner at pick 39.

He's a good recruiter but he's got as many screw up as anyone else.

My apologies re Campbell.

I’ve just checked multiple phantom drafts including Twomeys and they had the swans taking DGB - McDonald made his way to Hawthorn in the next pick. So not a reach - but wasn’t impacted by the Phillips selection either.

Yep 2019 wasn’t great …. Then they hit a grand slam with Warner.

The argument isn’t even that he is a maestro recruiter. But an improvement on what we have had since prime Beveridge.

The crap argument is that he had academy selections and thus out performed Toce (a weird board favourite)

When you remove our 2 boys. They have done a much better job with the picks available excluding academy picks.

 

[BrutThough]

My apologies re Campbell.

I’ve just checked multiple phantom drafts including Twomeys and they had the swans taking DGB - McDonald made his way to Hawthorn in the next pick. So not a reach - but wasn’t impacted by the Phillips selection either.

Yep 2019 wasn’t great …. Then they hit a grand slam with Warner.

The argument isn’t even that he is a maestro recruiter. But an improvement on what we have had since prime Beveridge.

The crap argument is that he had academy selections and thus out performed Toce (a weird board favourite)

When you remove our 2 boys. They have done a much better job with the picks available excluding academy picks.

Twomey must have got some late mail because I remember the North supporters melts about not taking McDonald since they were convinced for weeks before that's who they were getting.

You cant discount the impact adacedmy selections have had with his recruiting. It's definitely helped them and impacts the rest of the decisions he made during that period.

It's also unfair to try and talk Toce down over this period given it was Libba in charge at the 2018 draft (and Toce's influence led to us getting our VC, AA key back) and the lack of picks he had in the 19/20 drafts compared to what Sydney took. For Toce, we are more looking at the 2021-23 drafts which is obviously too early to really see the last quality of our picks.

There is no need to build Dalrymple into a messiah recruiter, especially before he's even taken a pick for us.

 

[stavro#4]

Twomey must have got some late mail because I remember the North supporters melts about not taking McDonald since they were convinced for weeks before that's who they were getting.

You cant discount the impact adacedmy selections have had with his recruiting. It's definitely helped them and impacts the rest of the decisions he made during that period.

It's also unfair to try and talk Toce down over this period given it was Libba in charge at the 2018 draft (and Toce's influence led to us getting our VC, AA key back) and the lack of picks he had in the 19/20 drafts compared to what Sydney took. For Toce, we are more looking at the 2021-23 drafts which is obviously too early to really see the last quality of our picks.

There is no need to build Dalrymple into a messiah recruiter, especially before he's even taken a pick for us.

I removed Gulden and Blakey from his selections forgot Campbell.

Even then you have to apply that to Owens and Windy.

I’m not talking Toce down. But he is spoken of as the messiah. He nailed the NWM - but there was a lot of quality hits across the drafts from Dalrymple that evidently is yet to be mirrored from Toce. (Could change)

Remember, Caminiti and Arie are both SOS selections. They make the Toce era seem better. Dalrymple landed McLean and Wicks for instance.

I’m not building him up as a messiah before his first pick. But making a comparison that the club has improved the quality of staff doing the job based on historical evidence.

The conversation is off the back of the Amartey stuff. Well within context that bringing him on board should in theory improve our Talent ID mechanisms

 

[BrutThough]

I removed Gulden and Blakey from his selections forgot Campbell.

Even then you have to apply that to Owens and Windy.

I’m not talking Toce down. But he is spoken of as the messiah. He nailed the NWM - but there was a lot of quality hits across the drafts from Dalrymple that evidently is yet to be mirrored from Toce. (Could change)

Remember, Caminiti and Arie are both SOS selections. They make the Toce era seem better. Dalrymple landed McLean and Wicks for instance.

I’m not building him up as a messiah before his first pick. But making a comparison that the club has improved the quality of staff doing the job based on historical evidence.

The conversation is off the back of the Amartey stuff. Well within context that bringing him on board should in theory improve our Talent ID mechanisms

Players taken 2-4 years earlier should be showing more than Toce's picks. The board is favourable to Toce because they like his talent identification of SA players during his time as the main recruiter of that area. That shouldn't be hard to work out or be dismissed because of the need to talk down people now working elsewhere. The jury is still out on his whole draft picks since they are all still very young.

You've been talking him, and frankly everyone else hired under Ross, since the minute we were linked with him. I hope you're on the Ross Lyon payroll with how much smoke you blow up the ass of anyone brought in during this regime.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

New match thread is UP !

Preview - St Kilda FC vs The Bye 2024​

How will we handle the week off ? How with the players and the club handle the week off ? Some ideas from Pete Seeger ……. A time to be born, a time to die ? A time to plant, a time to reap ? A time to kill, a time to heal ? A time to laugh, a time to weep ? A time to build up, a time to...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[gringo2011]

I’ll exclude Academy picks for you. Tell me how the below isn’t outstanding.

Pick 25 - James Rowbottom
Pick 44 - Justin McInerney
Pre season pick - Hayden McLean
Pick 39 - Chad Warner
Pick 4 - Logan McDonald (was considered a reach here)
Pick 5 - Braedan Campbell
Pick 34 - Matt Roberts
Unregistered player selection - Sam Wicks


The last 2 drafts yet to debut as the swans are pretty stacked - so they can develop without pressure.

They have blown 1 major pick. Dylan Stephens.

Worth noting. From 18 - 23 finishing positions.

6, 15, 16, 6, 3,8

1 x Grand final appearance
2 x prelims.

Oh, here are our picks. Exclude Owens and Windhager as they are academy - just like I did for Blakey and Gulden.

Ours are dog shit.

St Kilda - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

In actual fact, SOS involved in all of: Stocker Caminiti and Shoenmakers selection - very much improve the recruitment we have done.

Definitely good solid drafting but the others are good players. Warner is a top 10 AFL player for a late pick. Rowbottom, McInereny, McLean types are good players but not outstandingly better than our recent draft picks. McDonald is tracking similar to King in a better side. He was a high pick from memory.

Campbell is a Sydney academy and so far not that great.

Gould, Taylor and Stephen were all busts. Warmer saved a poor draft. Also grabbed Lewis Taylor in a trade and a couple of recycled players that went nowhere.

2021, 2022 and 2023 look absolutely terrible. Not sure Dalrymple's recent work stacks up to be honest. Hopefully he hasn't lost his mojo.

 

[gringo2011]

Players taken 2-4 years earlier should be showing more than Toce's picks. The board is favourable to Toce because they like his talent identification of SA players during his time as the main recruiter of that area. That shouldn't be hard to work out or be dismissed because of the need to talk down people now working elsewhere. The jury is still out on his whole draft picks since they are all still very young.

You've been talking him, and frankly everyone else hired under Ross, since the minute we were linked with him. I hope you're on the Ross Lyon payroll with how much smoke you blow up the ass of anyone brought in during this regime.

The last three drafts look really good. I'd say that we've done more in three drafts than the previous 12. We usually blew the first round, traded the second out and used late picks on low reward speculative types.

 

[bergholt]

They actually blew quite a few picks in that time. It shows that you can luck your way out of the dark.

Nah I reckon what it shows is that you have to just keep taking as many decent picks as you sensibly can, don't trade them away unless you're absolutely clearly in contention - and even then only if you get a great deal.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

[Mav3rick]

Don't think there was much wrong with Campbell to be honest but worth looking at guys like Bryan and Moyle and seeing what they'd cost.

Maybe even give Heath the rest of the year to see where he's at. Drop him forward for half the time and share the role with Roma.

I reckon our backline is already very good. To me small forward and true mids are the ones we need a serious upgrades and depth for.

If your onballers are good you can cover a lot of other spots with GOPs. Geelong did it with a list not unlike ours with a lot of outside run, average rucks and a solid back 6. Their POD with us is their forward line which had a much more dominant and varied set up. Miers, Stengle, Cameron, Rowan, Tomahawk etc. It was much more potent than our set up.

I was talking about long term solutions, agree that it's worth giving Heath a look for that reason. Still think full back is a spot worth upgrading, most premiership teams have an absolute gun there for a reason.

But yes, weapons in the midfield and up forward is top priority.

 

[gringo2011]

I’d say James Gallagher discovered Wilkie during his tenure we recruited a large % of SA players.

Ash Johnson also on radar.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Toce was SA talent spotter.

 

[Mat Mann]

not sure what the argument is tbh, Toce wanted the job Dalrymple got and apparently left when he didn't get it. Pretty sure you can't have too many good ppl and It wasn't the clubs decision to part ways

 

[gringo2011]

Nah I reckon what it shows is that you have to just keep taking as many decent picks as you sensibly can, don't trade them away unless you're absolutely clearly in contention - and even then only if you get a great deal.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Been saying that for the last 15 years. We wasted so many picks on really dumb trades to try to make the rebuild quicker and ironically made it slower. Carlton and Essendon did it too. You can’t decorate a cake that you didn’t have the ingredients for.

 

[Broski]

Are we a chance for pick one still? Roos taking the piss at the moment hahaha

 

[botts]

LDU not coming to us next year if north keep playing like this