List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.3

[Diehard Saint]

Hey gringo2011 you appear to have gone AWOL.

Everything ok?

 

[Speck]

Must say I'm still pretty bewildered by our ruck situation. We know we are a Marshall injury from possibly being a bottom 4 side, yet we did nothing to fix this after delisting Campbell and backing away from Soldo. It just makes little sense... all our eggs are in the Heath or state player basket now.

Surely there was a trade option out there for peanuts.

 

[austinnn]

Hey gringo2011 you appear to have gone AWOL.

Everything ok?

I happened to visit the BF notable members page on the main board today and saw that Gringo2011 and Plugger35 are 12th and 16th respectively on the reactions received ladder - the sole representatives from the Saints board that I saw, but I didn't look past the top 20 or so.

Gringo notably has over 180'000 reactions (im assuming mostly positive reactions) out of just over 66'000 posts.

Much loved!

 

[pebblesofsand]

I was once a post and this was purged by glorious fire of forum software, eventually I might add more and turn this into a crusade. Or rubble, maybe ash, gotta purge them all!

You seem confused.

It's impossible to make a "personal" attack if both parties are anonymous and unidentifable.

Anyway - time to move on to football discussions.

What skills and attributes do you think are essential to make a good AFL list manager?

 

[BrutThough]

Must say I'm still pretty bewildered by our ruck situation. We know we are a Marshall injury from possibly being a bottom 4 side, yet we did nothing to fix this after delisting Campbell and backing away from Soldo. It just makes little sense... all our eggs are in the Heath or state player basket now.

Surely there was a trade option out there for peanuts.

It is concerning. Just to have hope it's because we have managed to keep the plan in-house rather than us having nothing in the works.

 

[goodie23]

Must say I'm still pretty bewildered by our ruck situation. We know we are a Marshall injury from possibly being a bottom 4 side, yet we did nothing to fix this after delisting Campbell and backing away from Soldo. It just makes little sense... all our eggs are in the Heath or state player basket now.

Surely there was a trade option out there for peanuts.

A trade for peanuts option won't save us, we went after a supposedly viable solution in Soldo, didn't work out. Not a lot of other options out there, the untried McAndrew is probably the least worst of the delistees, that ex-Sun Crossley is being spruiked as the most draftable mature age ruck speaks volumes about the options available.

Best option is to bring in some rucks during the SSP period, put them up against Moose and Keeler and figure it out from there.

 

[gringo2011]

Richo was a poster boy for mediocrity. The club invested millions in his development as a coach. An estimated $4 million in salary alone.

He was sent on numerous leadership/personal development type courses in the off season periods, with one at Harvard costing $250,000 for a six week stint!

A complete waste of time and money. Another bizarre mistake from Matt Finnis. It was never going to work. Richo was a very limited player and was the same as a coach.

Dull, uninspiring, a poor communicator (feedback from a player who spent 3 years being coached by him), who often lost his temper. He had all the charm of a suburban caravan park.

His appointment ranks in the top 3 mistakes of the, "Decade of Mediocrity". The other 2 were selecting McCartin ahead of Petracca, and the appointment of Elshaug as the head of recruiting, despite him having no qualifications nor relevant experience.

We're still trying to recover from these disastrous decisions.

I used to get to club events back then and every time I spoke to Richo I came away thinking that he was an extremely poor communicator. At training he seemed to outsource a lot to his assistants and stand around arms behind his back looking on. I remember one training session down at Seaford that was just extraordinarily unprofessional.

Hamill was ****ing around with a group of players who seemed to be joking and dicking around. A midfield group ran itself and Billing actually looked incredible beating most established mids to the ball but no-one was really watching. The whole session looked poorer run than most junior footy trainings.

The assistants seemed half interested and it was one of their showpiece open sessions to sell the new training ground. There was no food, no parking, no-one from the club speaking or directing the fans. It was a pretty bleak insight. We looked along way down the wrong road.

 

[gringo2011]

You missed my point about sending Richo to Harvard. Of course it's a good idea to invest in the professional development of your coach.

My argument is that while it was appropriate for Hawthorn, Geelong, Swines and Collingwood to send their respective coaches to complete these courses, Richo was simply not up to benefiting himself nor the club by following suit. Like sending a primary school kid to to study for a Doctorate in astrophysics.

His record of failure and mediocrity speaks for itself. The other clubs were rewarded for their investment with premierships. We didn't even get a single finals appearance out of ours.

Your argument for Elshaug is bizarre. So you believe having played the game is sufficient to qualify you for the job? Or sucking up Pagan or Lyon's arse for 15 years does? They didn't even follow their normal protocols for filling the position. They gifted it to him and boy did the club pay a high price for that.

I can assure you I know what type Elshaug is. A little narcissist who vastly over rates himself. His record speaks for itself.

I did some scouting work for both the kangas and WB during the teens. He was considered a joke at North and rejected for the top job at the WB.

He applied for numerous coaching jobs and failed to get any of them. "As dumb as dogshit," was how he was described by a colleague from Norf. I was horrified when he was gifted the top recruiting job with us.

The other problem for his insane pursuit of a high profile job in the AFL is his record. Notice that only the dopers have employed him since Lethlean sacked him. That gig lasted a year I believe, until they also saw how shithouse he was. I don't think anyone else has taken a chance on him since. Good riddance.

Trout seemed very confident so I think he bluffed people like Finnis who was a good bloke but had no interest in the footy department side of footy.

I think Finnis believed in austerity as a way of bring the club back from the bottom. If staff didn't ask for anything that cost money they were kept on.

 

[gringo2011]

James Gallagher knew his way around the footy field , but he'd worked in finance.
He had a team of recruiters , including a head recruiter, who no doubt sat down in a meeting with the coach , head of footy, head of recruiting , and decided who to target.
Assuming James wasn't making personal calls on the players involved, i have to think he did a reasonable job.
Other clubs certainly had bigger issues with their salary cap.

( anyway, Finance is the same skillset as Coaching , ask Chris Scott ).

List management is balancing cap space for now and future, having a range of age and experience levels with depth to development in balance and depending where in the cycle you sit having those move around.

Lethlean and Gags did a lot to set us back in the cycle with short term high cost moves. When we should have been in a bottom cycle we went hard at topping up. Both lost their jobs because they did the rebuild backwards. We stretched our cap, had a poor age mix and not enough developing young talent for where we stood.

Rather than replace the recruiting staff who had been the worst in AFL history by a huge margin, we kept them on and started to try to bring in established talent instead.

 

[gringo2011]

Hey gringo2011 you appear to have gone AWOL.

Everything ok?

Yeah all good thanks DH. Lost a bit of passion for footy this last year. Trying to spend my time more productively.

Or maybe the club are on a much better path at the moment so when there is nothing negative to add I've lost my need to post to save my sanity.

 

[gringo2011]

Must say I'm still pretty bewildered by our ruck situation. We know we are a Marshall injury from possibly being a bottom 4 side, yet we did nothing to fix this after delisting Campbell and backing away from Soldo. It just makes little sense... all our eggs are in the Heath or state player basket now.

Surely there was a trade option out there for peanuts.

Ruck isn't that important that you go bottom 4 from that alone. Moose could stand under the ball and try too halve contests and we'd not collapse. Picking up Macrae will add a lot to the midfield and more than offset the loss of a ruck. Ruck Hammer of King as the chop out.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I’m on Winmar at $10 to kick the day off successfully at Flemington.

 

[gringo2011]

I happened to visit the BF notable members page on the main board today and saw that Gringo2011 and Plugger35 are 12th and 16th respectively on the reactions received ladder - the sole representatives from the Saints board that I saw, but I didn't look past the top 20 or so.

Gringo notably has over 180'000 reactions (im assuming mostly positive reactions) out of just over 66'000 posts.

Much loved!

I'm from the Kane Cornes school of making outrageous statements and watch the reactions roll in.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m on Winmar at $10 to kick the day off successfully at Flemington.

I don't bet or know anything about racing but I'm rating that horse highly.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I don't bet or know anything about racing but I'm rating that horse highly.

Didn’t win but it’s the effort that counts.

 

[Armoooo]

Didn’t win but it’s the effort that counts.

G'day saints fans, I know we didn't get the result we were looking for, but if we just park that 3rd furlong where things didn't go our way there was a lot to like. The effort was significantly pleasing.

 

[EconomicDecline]

A trade for peanuts option won't save us, we went after a supposedly viable solution in Soldo, didn't work out. Not a lot of other options out there, the untried McAndrew is probably the least worst of the delistees, that ex-Sun Crossley is being spruiked as the most draftable mature age ruck speaks volumes about the options available.

Best option is to bring in some rucks during the SSP period, put them up against Moose and Keeler and figure it out from there.

I’ve mentioned numerous times that we had the option last year to bring Sam Hayes in for nothing. He didn’t think he was being coached in the areas Port said he needed to improve in. Seemingly he isn’t interested in pursuing an AFL career again.

 

[SG34]

In hindsight, playing him in round 1 this year was a disaster. We are going to lose a list spot and around $600k for what was a really poor performance.

I pointed this out - playing him injured, just for reaching the threshold - and nobody bothered to comment here. No traction at all.

???

 

[SteeleSaints]

Must say I'm still pretty bewildered by our ruck situation. We know we are a Marshall injury from possibly being a bottom 4 side, yet we did nothing to fix this after delisting Campbell and backing away from Soldo. It just makes little sense... all our eggs are in the Heath or state player basket now.

Surely there was a trade option out there for peanuts.

A proven ready to play ruckman would have been nice but they are short in numbers. The club made the right call on Soldo if they had concerns re his ability to play for any length of time.

The ruck situation will be addressed at either the draft eg Dodson or mature aged Blakiston or Knobel as a DFA. The better ruckman are the mobile types who can get around the ground and mark the ball etc. If we can find a pick in the 15-20 range Dodson would be a perfect fit.