List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[The Punter]

The AFL's solution is to make the situation worse.

 

[gringo2011]

The AFL's solution is to make the situation worse.

Has to change though. Better now than never. As long as they need to be paid for with high picks I have no issues with it. Double dipping was ridiculous

 

[The Punter]

Has to change though. Better now than never. As long as they need to be paid for with high picks I have no issues with it. Double dipping was ridiculous

Unfettered access to Academy kids... ridiculous. Ugle-Hagan should be at Adelaide.

And making the price fairer is not the point - you finish last, you should be able to pick whomever you like and have no one take that player off you. That would be fair: the Brisbane Buckley situation (or Horne-Francis), where the player is traded a year later after a fair trade is agreed to.

 

[Desperate saint]

Some people are losing their minds at losing Battle for a top 5-6 pick.

Imagine if we lost the quality Freo have over an extended period.

Some folk would be burning down Moorabbin.

Battle has never won a B@F never even made the AASquad

 

[gringo2011]

Unfettered access to Academy kids... ridiculous. Ugle-Hagan should be at Adelaide.

And making the price fairer is not the point - you finish last, you should be able to pick whomever you like and have no one take that player off you. That would be fair: the Brisbane Buckley situation (or Horne-Francis), where the player is traded a year later after a fair trade is agreed to.

The AFL outsourced academies to the clubs. I can see why they get some reward for it but ideally the draft would be free for all to access based off the ladder. If it's compromised at least make it so that clubs don't get to trade out of the first round and use junk picks to make up value.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So if they make the points system better, and if Gold Coast end up with 4 first round level Academy players again. They can potentially get the points for 1: from their current 1st round pick, a second from their future first round pick, and maybe scrape up enough points from 2nd rounders to get the third.
They won't trade out their first round pick, because they'll need it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The AFL outsourced academies to the clubs. I can see why they get some reward for it but ideally the draft would be free for all to access based off the ladder. If it's compromised at least make it so that clubs don't get to trade out of the first round and use junk picks to make up value.

They still game the system though.
I'm not sure North had anything to do with Sanders before they claimed him as their Academy Player.
Surely the club getting an NGA should have to have served some role in their development.

 

[Ads734]

Unfettered access to Academy kids... ridiculous. Ugle-Hagan should be at Adelaide.

And making the price fairer is not the point - you finish last, you should be able to pick whomever you like and have no one take that player off you. That would be fair: the Brisbane Buckley situation (or Horne-Francis), where the player is traded a year later after a fair trade is agreed to.

Exactly the afl needs to run through the academies through the clubs and the clubs are not owed anything.

It’s just a joke.

 

[BigMonty]

I disagree on that. Sometimes safe and steady is a much better option than high stakes gambling. All those guys that you mentioned were gambles that didn't work out and each one set us backwards. Imagine if you lost peak Phillipou because you were paying Oliver to sit in rehab for another 5 years.

Hold on, Crouch had an indiscretion record as did Shooey. These turned out to be good decisions.

If we get rid of Battle and pick up his pick 5 and pay that player the draft wage for next 2 to 3 years. We have to spend that difference and the current surplus we have on someone.....so do we overpay the Billings Bruce Ross GOF et al.....with the current crop of middling players we have on our list to absorb the salary cap that we must spend....this is why we are here now and have been for the last 6 years. Need to try something different.

Rewarding average talent with above average wages does not. If Oliver checks out okay I would rather spend it on him to gamble that he may get his mojo back than paying a group of theyneverwillbe more than the market.

If he doesn't get there he is part of the never quite made it group and we are rewarded with Battle pick 5 and Melb pick 10 selections that may eventually be what we are looking for and we can pay crateloads when Olivers contract is finished.

If he checks out to be no good then so be it....but go through the exercise and conduct your due diligence on the bloke...then make the decision.

We pay recruiters a shipload to do exactly that when choosing new recruits it should not stop there.. There is sooo much exposed talent in the actual AFL/VFL that should be looked at more closely.

We have all played in teams where
one player hates the coach, broken up with Girlfriend/Boyfriend, is upagainst a cliche of existing players, too many ahead in the pecking order, carrying an injury, playing the wrong role etc.

There are jewels in other clubs dross. We can't compete with Coll Carl Ess for x factor, so we have to do it better elsewhere.

We are like the Oakland As in Moneyball, we just have to do it better in different areas when selecting talent.

Just because Hannas was a fail doesn't mean that the sentiment and strategy were wrong.

Roberton worked, Koby Stevens looked good till concusion, Schneider Dempster Gram Gardiner they are out there.....just do the research work and make a decision then if nevessary back our system and processes to get it right for the club and the player.

Go Saints

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

 

[gringo2011]

Battle has never won a B@F never even made the AASquad

We can barely make up a competitive squad at the moment and weakening it now and in the future generally aren't the best way to move forward. We have Avery few mid career players and you just kick the can down the road. Making yourself less competitive also means that it's harder to attract similar players back to the club unless you pay outrageous overs.

 

[gubby88]

We can barely make up a competitive squad at the moment and weakening it now and in the future generally aren't the best way to move forward. We have Avery few mid career players and you just kick the can down the road. Making yourself less competitive also means that it's harder to attract similar players back to the club unless you pay outrageous overs.

but if yoi want to move from a nediocre list to a good list you need to make a gamble now and then.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Hold on, Crouch had an indiscretion record as did Shooey. These turned out to be good decisions.

If we get rid of Battle and pick up his pick 5 and pay that player the draft wage for next 2 to 3 years. We have to spend that difference and the current surplus we have on someone.....so do we overpay the Billings Bruce Ross GOF et al.....with the current crop of middling players we have on our list to absorb the salary cap that we must spend....this is why we are here now and have been for the last 6 years. Need to try something different.

Rewarding average talent with above average wages does not. If Oliver checks out okay I would rather spend it on him to gamble that he may get his mojo back than paying a group of theyneverwillbe more than the market.

If he doesn't get there he is part of the never quite made it group and we are rewarded with Battle pick 5 and Melb pick 10 selections that may eventually be what we are looking for and we can pay crateloads when Olivers contract is finished.

If he checks out to be no good then so be it....but go through the exercise and conduct your due diligence on the bloke...then make the decision.

We pay recruiters a shipload to do exactly that when choosing new recruits it should not stop there.. There is sooo much exposed talent in the actual AFL/VFL that should be looked at more closely.

We have all played in teams where
one player hates the coach, broken up with Girlfriend/Boyfriend, is upagainst a cliche of existing players, too many ahead in the pecking order, carrying an injury, playing the wrong role etc.

There are jewels in other clubs dross. We can't compete with Coll Carl Ess for x factor, so we have to do it better elsewhere.

We are like the Oakland As in Moneyball, we just have to do it better in different areas when selecting talent.

Just because Hannas was a fail doesn't mean that the sentiment and strategy were wrong.

Roberton worked, Koby Stevens looked good till concusion, Schneider Dempster Gram Gardiner they are out there.....just do the research work and make a decision then if nevessary back our system and processes to get it right for the club and the player.

Go Saints

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Crouch was a free hit with just wages for a few years. Ari was nearly the last pick in the draft.

Like Oliver, Hanners was cooked. He'd been broken down for a couple of years. Oliver is one of the leagues biggest wages for the longest time and he's playing C grade footy. It would be insane to chase him. Since he gave up drugs he turned to shit.

Taking players is good business. Signing big names with serious issues rarely works.

I was keen on De Goey because his form was good and issues were minimal. Collingwood chase low profile high output recruits and seems to work better.

 

[gringo2011]

but if yoi want to move from a nediocre list to a good list you need to make a gamble now and then.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

You can take stupid risks or smart risks. Taking gambles instead of doing the work is what ****ed us.

 

[gringo2011]

They still game the system though.
I'm not sure North had anything to do with Sanders before they claimed him as their Academy Player.
Surely the club getting an NGA should have to have served some role in their development.

They weren't allowed to claim Sanders.

 

[gubby88]

You can take stupid risks or smart risks. Taking gambles instead of doing the work is what ****ed us.

yeah but i take this as a medium risk, high reward

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[gringo2011]

yeah but i take this as a medium risk, high reward

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

That's the problem with the FA compo, it encourages bottom sides to take risks letting players walk and reinforces the better sides up the ladder. It's very tempting to cash-in when it's there but if it stuffs up we are further back in our build.

A drafted kid is unlikely to have any major impact for 3 or 4 years. If we take established players to fill gaps we will need to give capital to get them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

but if yoi want to move from a nediocre list to a good list you need to make a gamble now and then.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Good idea, i'm struggling to pay my utilities, i'll head down and drop some on the pokies to get myself out of the shit.

 

[gubby88]

Good idea, i'm struggling to pay my utilities, i'll head down and drop some on the pokies to get myself out of the shit.

thats a very high risk for very low reward

now youre on gringos level of stkilda management thinking

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[bergholt]

Exactly the afl needs to run through the academies through the clubs and the clubs are not owed anything.

It’s just a joke.

Problem is the AFL tried a bunch of setups to get northern states talent before this and none of the others worked at all really. Club academies is a hugely better system for their goal of stealing NSW and Qld talent. But then other clubs complained so they gave everyone academies and that’s really where the rot started.

 

[Joffaboy]

So we are 'letting' Battle walk?
Or is he being 'culled'?

Have heard this emotive stuff on this forum.

1. Battle is UFA, there is no option regarding 'letting' him go. We can't match.
2. We are not 'culling' Battle he is being offered 6 years well over 800-850 a year.

If Hawthorn offers 900 a year, is Battle really worth that amount, especially if we get pick 5.

I would prefer to keep Battle, but he is not Bont, or Harley Reid or even Weitering, you can't keep him at any price.



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[SteeleSaints]

How long do kids have to live in academy zones to qualify - does anyone know?

I am just wondering if it is open to abuse like the old zones, where the rich clubs would pay to move families into their zones.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet thought I will share

 

[Diehard Saint]

Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet thought I will share

Surely not?
This would be the 3rd time…

Once when he chose the Bombers over us initially.
The second time a couple of years back when we were possibly prepared to take him as a salary dump as long a compo pick came with him otherwise most of us didn’t want him.

Surely not again???

 

[littlecreatures]

That's the problem with the FA compo, it encourages bottom sides to take risks letting players walk and reinforces the better sides up the ladder. It's very tempting to cash-in when it's there but if it stuffs up we are further back in our build.

A drafted kid is unlikely to have any major impact for 3 or 4 years. If we take established players to fill gaps we will need to give capital to get them.

Whilst I agree to a large extent of what you’re saying, I’m also mindful Battle is being lured by Hawthorn of all clubs who last finished out of the bottom 6 in 2019 (9th that year), and have largely been bottom 4 since.