List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[stavro#4]

If we can't get Parker then yeah I'm ok with this after my initial reaction of disgust

If we could somehow turn Paton into Shiel (they're probably worth similar values on the market) then I think it's a solid move

There has been not a single genuine link to Parker.

It’s a supporters pipe dream.

 

[The Punter]

Howard has been better this year. We would still have Cordy listed.

Just my belief from things I’ve seen and heard.

I don’t think the coaching group are sold on Howard. Which is why he has been shopped for 18 months.

He isn’t shit. But he is frustrating and he gets beaten too often for a Ross Lyon lynchpin defender.

SOS is very much a list manager in the value vs output/contract type of view.

Did it with Gresham.
Battle will fall under a similar opinion.

Howard could aswell at the right price. You would have to imagine it’s a top 25 pick to move on from here.

I guess Cordy and Caminiti are other options. It's just a risk to an area where we are strong at the moment.

 

[stavro#4]

I guess Cordy and Caminiti are other options. It's just a risk to an area where we are strong at the moment.

Ross created the greatest ever defensive team with a back 6 that had 2 very average at best footballers.

Baker Dawson Blake

Gilbert Fisher Goddard

Vs

Webster. ????? Shoenmaker /(or ????)

Sinclair Wilkie. NWM

 

[gringo2011]

Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet thought I will share

This is the level of hope we are getting now. FFS.

 

[The Punter]

Ross created the greatest ever defensive team with a back 6 that had 2 very average at best footballers.

Baker Dawson Blake

Gilbert Fisher Goddard

Vs

Webster. ????? Shoenmaker /(or ????)

Sinclair Wilkie. NWM

In terms of talent you hit the nail on the head, but apart from Dawson this is what that group looked like from a 2009 perspective:

Drafted in 1998 (11th season), 1999 (10th), 2005 (4th), 2003 (7th) and 2002 (8th).

Howard and Battle provide continuity that would take time to replace. One is easier to cover in that respect than two.

 

[gringo2011]

Oliver's C grade footy walks into our starting midfield. With potential upside.

Worst case, Oliver takes up some front loaded salary cap, doesn't perform but we get another 1st round draft pick for him.

If we left this trade period with

3 X first round draft picks (Inc our own)
Oliver
Shiel

And all we had to give up was
Battle
Salary cap
And a 2nd/3rd round pick

I'd be beyond ecstatic.

Oliver has a contract until 2030 at over $1 million PA. If it backfires you end up getting strangled by it.

Hopefully we are over buying up broken down messiah players. He's barely functional off field and now his on field matches his off field work. Shiel hardly plays, he must average about 10 good games a year. You would be much better off taking a risk on a young player in a deep draft. If Oliver fails he's paid out with nothing to show for the money.

Sure if Essendon want to give up a high draft pick to absorb his wage you'd look at it but it's a distraction and just buying a guy to keep the medical staff busy.

 

[stavro#4]

In terms of talent you hit the nail on the head, but apart from Dawson this is what that group looked like from a 2009 perspective:

Drafted in 1998 (11th season), 1999 (10th), 2005 (4th), 2003 (7th) and 2002 (8th).

Howard and Battle provide continuity that would take time to replace. One is easier to cover in that respect than two.

Yes and as I’ve said. They have interest in other KPD players at other clubs.

So if Howard left they would have to be bringing someone else in.

 

[gringo2011]

Thats hopeful and nowhere near in the ball park as the 3 I highlighted from the Hawks.

At this point.

Owens is a forward and will probably continue in that Jake Stringer Mould.

Windhager looks a solid citizen - doesn’t look at current to have that midfield star potential. But it’s still early.

Pou looks like he has that star ability and the figjam mindset to do it. But still very young.

Adding some other cast off - but younger is just adding more of a question mark to that group and not giving us something concrete that we can bank on.

We will likely add 2 top 6 picks to this list. Heaps to be excited about. Disappointing that it’s going slower than what we would all like. But you have to hit these drafts before Tassie cleans up for a few years.

Our biggest asset is the cap space. Let’s see how they use it.

Outside of that, it’s splitting one of those early picks and I can’t see how that helps unless it’s to the suns for their first 2 picks.

Beyond those 2 means, it’s Steele & Marshall and that’s not an avenue I would want to go without a very clear and public plan that everyone who is involved with - is accountable too.

Shiel hardly ever gets on the park and is now at an age where he'll get less resilient. He would be a stupid target. His kicking is a liability too.

 

[stavro#4]

Shiel hardly ever gets on the park and is now at an age where he'll get less resilient. He would be a stupid target. His kicking is a liability too.

He has been on the park for the last 6 weeks and the last 2 at afl level is averaging 27 disposals.

 

[Joffaboy]

Said it before and will say it again, if we lose Battle and Howard out of the only elite line in the team we have, we are just f***Ed.
Christ, I can see the logic of pick 5 for Battle, even the logic of a Sheil to help the kids considering Jones and Crouch and Ross are probably gone, a bit like Paddy Ryder, but to neuter our backline be getting rid of Howard when he has finally come good is ludicrous
Cordy is s.hit and a stop gap, Caminiti may be ok going forward but is raw af, same with Keeler and Arie.
Please Saints don't be too smart by half with the backline. Other ways to improve the mids. Don't need to wreck the backline in the process.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joffaboy]

This is the level of hope we are getting now. FFS.

You believing everything Mitch Cleary posts?
Marshall gone to Geelong apparently

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

He has been on the park for the last 6 weeks and the last 2 at afl level is averaging 27 disposals.

Three games in the AFL for the year his first one he got 2 touches before breaking down. He'll be 32. I can see absolutely no reason for chasing a guy who is getting to retirement age with a long injury history.

We are probably not going to be a very good side next year, probably bottom 4 again if we make all the moves that we are suggesting. Possibly last if we get a few injuries. I see no reason to chase a player like Shiel if we are going hard at youth.

Losing Howard and Battle should make us very easy to score against. Our forward line is poor and our midfield is thin. The back 6 and our rebound/outside run are our only good lines and we seem keen to rebuild the tall backs. It would be very easy to slip to last spot with a good percentage of depth removed on top of that.

Can't see the point in Shiel.

 

[gringo2011]

You believing everything Mitch Cleary posts?
Marshall gone to Geelong apparently

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I wouldn't but you'd be crazy to think that it's not something that we'd do. It sounds 100% like something we'd be plotting.

 

[True Believer]

Said it before and will say it again, if we lose Battle and Howard out of the only elite line in the team we have, we are just f***Ed.
Christ, I can see the logic of pick 5 for Battle, even the logic of a Sheil to help the kids considering Jones and Crouch and Ross are probably gone, a bit like Paddy Ryder, but to neuter our backline be getting rid of Howard when he has finally come good is ludicrous
Cordy is s.hit and a stop gap, Caminiti may be ok going forward but is raw af, same with Keeler and Arie.
Please Saints don't be too smart by half with the backline. Other ways to improve the mids. Don't need to wreck the backline in the process.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I generally hold similar positions and opinions as you, and probably align with you on the basis of this, in not stripping out a critical level of experienced talent in our one line that is highly functional, however, what if they have eyes on a replacement for Howard that is better/cheaper/younger/looks better in Birkenstocks or whatever? I think Battle is gone, and if that is the case then would be very wary of Howard going out at the same time, but there seems to have been noise constantly for 18 months about Howard being on the way out the door......something is definitely up, despite his recent improved form.

 

[akaifu]

Three games in the AFL for the year his first one he got 2 touches before breaking down. He'll be 32. I can see absolutely no reason for chasing a guy who is getting to retirement age with a long injury history.

We are probably not going to be a very good side next year, probably bottom 4 again if we make all the moves that we are suggesting. Possibly last if we get a few injuries. I see no reason to chase a player like Shiel if we are going hard at youth.

Losing Howard and Battle should make us very easy to score against. Our forward line is poor and our midfield is thin. The back 6 and our rebound/outside run are our only good lines and we seem keen to rebuild the tall backs. It would be very easy to slip to last spot with a good percentage of depth removed on top of that.

Can't see the point in Shiel.

It's so he can be a foil for the young kids in the mids. We have Crouch, Ross, Jones most likely all gone by 2025 which leaves us extremely thin with experience and we all know Steele isn't the best verbal leader either so he can't carry the entire burden. Look at Geelong, they went from having one of the best midfields in the comp to losing Selwood and Menegola, then Guthrie and Danger copped injuries and left too much for the kids to make up for

Get Shiel for one or two years while Pou/Windy and maybe Owens refine their craft and their leadership, then move him on when the next wave is ready. Good thing is that we could potentially turn Paton into Shiel

 

[Saintbloke]

Three games in the AFL for the year his first one he got 2 touches before breaking down. He'll be 32. I can see absolutely no reason for chasing a guy who is getting to retirement age with a long injury history.

We are probably not going to be a very good side next year, probably bottom 4 again if we make all the moves that we are suggesting. Possibly last if we get a few injuries. I see no reason to chase a player like Shiel if we are going hard at youth.

Losing Howard and Battle should make us very easy to score against. Our forward line is poor and our midfield is thin. The back 6 and our rebound/outside run are our only good lines and we seem keen to rebuild the tall backs. It would be very easy to slip to last spot with a good percentage of depth removed on top of that.

Can't see the point in Shiel.

Yeah, but we're the Saints- quick fixes are in our DNA

 

[jimmytigs]

No meaningful draft capital should be surrendered in the pursuit of Shiel.

this is absoloutely the bottom line here

but digging a little further,if any truth in this shiel business,could that mean the confirmed demise of brad crouch?because surely the club isnt planning carrying 2 of them,even with getting shiel for next to nothing?

 

[BrutThough]

Said it before and will say it again, if we lose Battle and Howard out of the only elite line in the team we have, we are just f***Ed.
Christ, I can see the logic of pick 5 for Battle, even the logic of a Sheil to help the kids considering Jones and Crouch and Ross are probably gone, a bit like Paddy Ryder, but to neuter our backline be getting rid of Howard when he has finally come good is ludicrous
Cordy is s.hit and a stop gap, Caminiti may be ok going forward but is raw af, same with Keeler and Arie.
Please Saints don't be too smart by half with the backline. Other ways to improve the mids. Don't need to wreck the backline in the process.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I mean, surely we aren't stupid enough to do that.... right?

 

[stavro#4]

Said it before and will say it again, if we lose Battle and Howard out of the only elite line in the team we have, we are just f***Ed.
Christ, I can see the logic of pick 5 for Battle, even the logic of a Sheil to help the kids considering Jones and Crouch and Ross are probably gone, a bit like Paddy Ryder, but to neuter our backline be getting rid of Howard when he has finally come good is ludicrous
Cordy is s.hit and a stop gap, Caminiti may be ok going forward but is raw af, same with Keeler and Arie.
Please Saints don't be too smart by half with the backline. Other ways to improve the mids. Don't need to wreck the backline in the process.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I mean, surely we aren't stupid enough to do that.... right?

So was that line elite prior to Ross or because of Ross?

Because I believe it’s the latter not the former - so we should have some faith he can create that with whatever it looks like in 2025 - if they do go down the path of moving Howard on.

 

[The Punter]

this is absoloutely the bottom line here

but digging a little further,if any truth in this shiel business,could that mean the confirmed demise of brad crouch?because surely the club isnt planning carrying 2 of them,even with getting shiel for next to nothing?

For me it's the draft capital here. With Jones gone, and question marks over Crouch and Ross, Shiel would represent needed midfield depth. But Essendon would want to move him here if he's not playing regularly, so we'd be doing them a favour and the trade should demonstrate that. Any of the "Dodoro must win the trade" malarkey and we walk.

The other question here is about Seb's decline. His last few games in the seniors he was clearly not playing inside. So is his lack of production due to not being played in his best position? If he could provide 20 disposals (he's not very incisive but he rarely wastes possession) inside, then isn't keeping Seb around one more year as the midfield depth a less risky option than Shiel who is often injured and would require us dealing with Essendon?

 

[ScrappyDo]

He's still got another year on his contact and Essendon are hard to deal with.

SOS isn't gonna take a bad deal. He gets value from everything.

 

[BrutThough]

SOS isn't gonna take a bad deal. He gets value from everything.

Any deal/situation that sees us lose 2 of our 3 key backs in one off season is a bad one.

 

[jimmytigs]

But Essendon would want to move him here if he's not playing regularly, so we'd be doing them a favour and the trade should demonstrate that. Any of the "Dodoro must win the trade" malarkey and we walk.

as long as we stick to that

 

[TheJackal]

Blowing up our defence, our only elite functioning unit, is such a St Kilda thing to do.

 

[Sully111]

Howard has been excellent for us when he's been on the park this year. We'd be absolutely nuts not to get him signed asap.