Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Roostorm]

Yes I guessed sarcasm but didn't want to assume. I'm sure this bloke is no dill but he was very well chosen for the task. Lawyers are very good at nurturing relationships with experts in various fields who will deliver a convincing and authoritative opinion to help build a case.

No worries ….l can be blunt sometimes..
no doubt at all he’d be at the top of his game in his field as you suggest…and yes they are experts at developing these relationships with law firms but ultimately it’s a professionals opinion….lm just not sure that it trumps the opinions of a Chief Justice and legal firm….combined with the law firm that hired him might be a hill to high to climb ..But it will be interesting to see what approach they take if it gets to trial…

 

[Roostorm]

Still should be disclosed as part of the report if its to be taken with any credibility.

It reminds me of the kind of interlectual they get on the evening news thats paid to offer their insights for issues such as how hostages are feeling when there has been a hijacking with absolutely zero knowledge of the individuals involved.

Indeed…and if it hasn’t been you can guarantee the opposing lawyer/firm at trial will go hunting for that kind of information..

 

[the big lebowski]

It’s propaganda.

Nothing more

 

[koshari]

Yes I guessed sarcasm but didn't want to assume. I'm sure this bloke is no dill but he was very well chosen for the task. Lawyers are very good at nurturing relationships with experts in various fields who will deliver a convincing and authoritative opinion to help build a case.

First rule of consultancy, never seek a report that doesnt give you the outcome your seeking.

 

[koshari]

It’s propaganda.

Nothing more

Dunno about that, for me the timing is quite telling, suggests that the accusers will indeed be going to the courts, i mean why would you commision a report that obviously cost you money if you didnt have the intent to recoup the expenses?

 

[the big lebowski]

Dunno about that, for me the timing is quite telling, suggests that the accusers will indeed be going to the courts, i mean why would you commision a report that obviously cost you money if you didnt have the intent to recoup the expenses?

As I said, propaganda

 

[brooksnk]

Yin Paradise's twitter description: "Wakaya, race relations professor, lndigenous knowledges/decoloniality, activist, radical, anarchist, wilding"

wow. he found a racisms did happened.

 

[North1411]

Yeah, given the billable hours they've committed, Leon Zwier and Arnold Bloch Leibler would not be happy with $300k for their share of the settlement.

To be fair I think they are doing it pro bono

 

[Forever North]

When this investigation blew up I posted that it was a load of bullshit and simply a money grab. Know a Hawks player who was there at the time and who was interviewed by the investigators so it’s as close as you can get. I really hope it gets to court where the lies, bullshit and agendas can get exposed. Let the justice system sort it out once and for all. It’s a ****ing disgrace what has happened. The accusers have nothing to lose and are just playing the media ‘racism’ game hoping to hustle some cash.

 

[Only Forwards]

For those that know these things, is the burden of proof in the federal court beyond a reasonable doubt?

If so I think, given all that we have seen come out, the claimants are going to have a tough time meeting that level of proof. Surely if they could, it would never have gotten this far?

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

For those that know these things, is the burden of proof in the federal court beyond a reasonable doubt?

If so I think, given all that we have seen come out, the claimants are going to have a tough time meeting that level of proof. Surely if they could, it would never have gotten this far?

It would still be a civil case so the burden of proof would be the balance of probabilities as far as I can tell although I'm not a law talking guy.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Still should be disclosed as part of the report if its to be taken with any credibility.

It reminds me of the kind of interlectual they get on the evening news thats paid to offer their insights for issues such as how hostages are feeling when there has been a hijacking with absolutely zero knowledge of the individuals involved.

You may be surprised to learn that a Swedish intellectual hostage crisis expert whose fundamentally flawed and dangerous advice to authorities during a bank robbery gone wrong resulted in this same f^ckwit inventing the concept of Stockholm Syndrome. The hostages' lives were put at grave risk when he advised that the robbers could not be negotiated with and that extreme force was necessary to end the situation. One of the hostages contradicted his advice as she was certain that at least one of the robbers was willing to surrender. She was given an opportunity to telephone authorities but was told they would not negotiate with terrorists and that she should at least be proud to die at her post. She eventually survived the ordeal but old mate intellectual then invented Stockholm Syndrome to save face as he argued the hostages had come to sympathise with the robbers and that their judgement could not be trusted. This is why Stockholm Syndrome is to this day disregarded by serious psychologists and is only kept alive by media hacks.

 

[Muscles Thommo]

Thanks

So a report commissioned by the players, with only information from the players, written by someone whose focus of study is the societal impact of racism, concluded that racism existed...

I for one am amazed

 

[Muscles Thommo]

"Independent report"
"Commissioned by the lawyers representing the families"

Those 2 statements are mutually exclusive. As soon as "commissioning" happens, there's likelihood of bias.

That's why so many studies that say cereal is the healthiest breakfast for kids, are commissioned by Kellogs.

Is that why even though I eat a tonne of Nutrigrain that I haven't turned into an Iron man?

 

[BigRedRoo]

The report is an uncritical analysis of the players stories.
This report was given to the AFL during their investigation and presumably assessed by the two legal entities who came to the same conclusion that they was no evidence to support claims of racism.
Still don't think this is going to court, as its highly likely that the players will get stuck with massive legal costs.

 

[The Warlord]

I find this type of article very frustrating. The journalist who penned the above article has avoided any specifics re Clarkson, Fagan, etc and gone with quoting the parts of Professor Paradies report that identifies generalities which any reasonable person would agree with.

eg:

Tells you a whole about teh actual specifics re Clarko et al

 

[giantroo]

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Warlord]

It is VERY interesting that Clarko specifically singles out the AFL and Hawthorn as having denied he, Fagan and Burt procedural fairness through all this ... just after talking about how keen he, Fagan and Burt are to get to the Federal Court.

And he's 100 per cent correct.

The Hawthorn types like to hide behind some bullshit spreadsheet and AFL procedure that's meaningless crap.

 

[Merlin007]

It is VERY interesting that Clarko specifically singles out the AFL and Hawthorn as having denied he, Fagan and Burt procedural fairness through all this ... just after talking about how keen he, Fagan and Burt are to get to the Federal Court.

And he's 100 per cent correct.

The Hawthorn types like to hide behind some bullshit spreadsheet and AFL procedure that's meaningless crap.

Any Hawthorn board member with even a lay understanding of procedural fairness would have taken one look at the Egan report and its outlandish conclusions and pushed it back across the table and invited the authors to try again

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Warlord]

Any Hawthorn board member with even a lay understanding of procedural fairness would have taken one look at the Egan report and its outlandish conclusions and pushed it back across the table and invited the authors to try again

And given Clarkson, Fagan and Burt a heads up with lawyers present that they had started a process, what had happened and the steps going forward, including their right to see it and respond to any adverse comment

 

[ChairmanZia]

Because so far it has always been the players' 'plight', at least in the courts, coaches will give their account.

But a good strategy is put the torch on hawthorn.

 

[NMFC49]

Just watched that interview. Selwood, Cotchin, Bradshaw, and Tim Watson. Very interesting body language from Watson, and only asked 2 negative questions. Very serious and stiff. Had all the optics of a spurned Essendon tragic. Take a look, it's obvious.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Because so far it has always been the aborigine players' 'plight', at least in the courts, coaches will give their account.

But a good strategy is put the torch on hawthorn.

Excuse the intrusion but the word Aborigine can be a really offensive word. Aboriginal is best.