Autopsy Autopsy vs Western Bulldogs - Rd 3, 2021

[Flawed Genius]

How is bringing in Polec any different to bringing in Corr?

$ vs a top 11 draft pick

 

[Psicosis]

$ vs a top 11 draft pick

But.. but... we got Tarryn! It was a free hit!

 

[Gasometer]

2 of those guys were Top 10 in the Syd in 2019. And we were screaming out for outside run and foot skills so Polec was a must.

How is bringing in Polec any different to bringing in Corr?

Too true
I think Jarred actually informed the entire playing group of his outside run abilities at the huddle in 2020 v Carlton.
That aside I would have preferred not taking him, lost games and slid down further to get a kid that lasts 12 years

 

[ferball]

Would I want Curtis Taylor or Ben King/Bailey Smith/Connor Rozee?

I'm glad we have Curtis and I think he'll be great for the side. But give me any of the above three over him every single time

How would we have gone from 11 to pick 5, 6 or 7 in a (so called) "superdraft"?

Seriously?

If we had pick 7 (and not Thomas) what would you have needed to give it up that year? Let alone pick 5.

 

[Mav]

How would we have gone from 11 to pick 5, 6 or 7 in a (so called) "superdraft"?

Seriously?

If we had pick 7 (and not Thomas) what would you have needed to give it up that year? Let alone pick 5.

Just trade up, simple.

 

[Flawed Genius]

How would we have gone from 11 to pick 5, 6 or 7 in a (so called) "superdraft"?

Seriously?

If we had pick 7 (and not Thomas) what would you have needed to give it up that year? Let alone pick 5.

Future picks? I don't know mate. If we really wanted to I think we could have

 

[DarwinRoo]

Too true
I think Jarred actually informed the entire playing group of his outside run abilities at the huddle in 2020 v Carlton.
That aside I would have preferred not taking him, lost games and slid down further to get a kid that lasts 12 years

The game where he was clearly our best, and got coaches and Brownlow votes?

If Laidley or Scott had played Wells as a tagger to work on his defensive side this board would have gone apeshit.

 

[Gasometer]

The game where he was clearly our best, and got coaches and Brownlow votes?

If Laidley or Scott had played Wells as a tagger to work on his defensive side this board would have gone apeshit.

Yeh that one. The one where he mysteriously disappeared for the next four weeks after.
And let’s cut to the chase so we don’t waste our time; I don’t rate him.

 

[Devington]

2 of those guys were Top 10 in the Syd in 2019. And we were screaming out for outside run and foot skills so Polec was a must.

How is bringing in Polec any different to bringing in Corr?

Polec turned 27 in his first year with us
Hall 29
Pittard 28
vs
Corr 27
Atu 21
Young 22
Stepho 22

Paints a bit of a better picture than just comparing Polec to Corr.

 

[Only Forwards]

Harvey
Petrie
Dal Santo
Firrito
Wells
Nahas
Hansen
Swallow
Gibson
Thomas

Were all gone in a two year period. How is that not starting a rebuild?

This was not so much a starting point but an ending one. 2016 marked the end of a Bunch of careers for a bunch of quality North people.

The reason it isn't the starting point is the flip flopping that came after it.

2016 - finals - smashed - poorly managed exits for a bunch of senior players. Also the equally horrendous, recruitment by media attempts, had started. Throw money and they will come. But they didn't.

2017 we're bottom 4 - this is the claytons of rebuilding. this year in isolation is a dip.

2018 - we've got a kid that is gonna go near the top so we proceed to win enough games that our pick lands pretty much in no mans land and we miss finals, just. Instead of playing a bunch of kids we scramble with what we had to finish what 9th? midtable no where. Imagine McKay was further progressed, or that one of the plethora of kids we had from what I will call "the Barron years" had been given game time in this period. sure it may have meant more losses but we would have dipped again. then rather than having to go an get the best we could of what was on offer ( a merc in Polec, and a journeyman in Pittard) we got in-front of the Thomas bid and picked up two first round picks and still got Bailey Scott. We compound a bunch of mistakes in trade during this year. Hall, Tyson, Polec. I won't lump Jasper in there because at least he would show some heart. We are still paying for this as of good Friday. Polec demanding to play (allegedly?) Hall deciding when and when not to contest. Tyson, omitted because he was f***ing terrible. You would consider this annus horribilis, sans the fact that the hits are gonna keep coming.

2019 Scott - the chickens come home to roost for Scott. We have SFA development coming through and we are losing to teams we shouldn't still (this was a theme throughout his entire tenure). Scott is now so full of ego and hubris he thinks he is more important than the 150 years this club had been around. This Pisses off a lot of people with influence and he's gone.

2019 Shaw - Physical footy is back but in terms of rebuild it damages our hand at the draft table. Given how Shaw turned out, it actually set us back, appointing him. it is what it is. End of the year Post the Scott clean out Rhyce is one man banding the entire FD or so it would seem. No Rawlings on board, we push our first to a 2020 first which is ok. not ideal, but ok.

2020 - Actual Annus Horribillis. The Hub was a test of the FD and club resolve how together we were, and how well managed we are. We failed. Not by a little bit. We lose a coach who we either ground into dust or we failed to support. either/either it doesn't matter collective shit show. We now 4 years after the end point decide that the tough calls on journey men need to be made. There are also ramification from hub life with decent players leaving because we have now picked a direction. we are walking into the fire. Brady cuts deep. Real deep. so deep we are gonna get exposed. We are also in a position where these deep cuts are made with no coach on board. Noble is appointed post trade eon, so whatever plays out this year is with a list that is not of his construction. IN fact given the attacking nature of what we appear to be attempting, biting off the 45 play through the corridor, it is at odds with Rhyce's kick to a contest and crib round the boundary, expect more change.

So you can draw a line in 2016 and say it started then but it didn't. the only thing that started was compounding mistakes.

We are not just rebuilding on-field. The rebuild started December 1 2019. The day Brady took over the role of General Manger of football. Judgement has come and gone for Shaw. Jury is out on Noble. 2020 is the very start of his oversight of recruitment.

We will have some kids that are clearly quality from the 2016 onwards drafts. But it is not going to be cohesive.

The clean out last year was root and branch. Harder than anything that we have done before.

Pointing back to 2016 and saying it started then doesn't account for the actual shitshow that it has been. I think we have it better off field now but we've been shambles behind the scenes. shambles that we are paying on field for right now.

 

[Gasometer]

This was not so much a starting point but an ending one. 2016 marked the end of a Bunch of careers for a bunch of quality North people.

The reason it isn't the starting point is the flip flopping that came after it.

2016 - finals - smashed - poorly managed exits for a bunch of senior players. Also the equally horrendous, recruitment by media attempts, had started. Throw money and they will come. But they didn't.

2017 we're bottom 4 - this is the claytons of rebuilding. this year in isolation is a dip.

2018 - we've got a kid that is gonna go near the top so we proceed to win enough games that our pick lands pretty much in no mans land and we miss finals, just. Instead of playing a bunch of kids we scramble with what we had to finish what 9th? midtable no where. Imagine McKay was further progressed, or that one of the plethora of kids we had from what I will call "the Barron years" had been given game time in this period. sure it may have meant more losses but we would have dipped again. then rather than having to go an get the best we could of what was on offer ( a merc in Polec, and a journeyman in Pittard) we got in-front of the Thomas bid and picked up two first round picks and still got Bailey Scott. We compound a bunch of mistakes in trade during this year. Hall, Tyson, Polec. I won't lump Jasper in there because at least he would show some heart. We are still paying for this as of good Friday. Polec demanding to play (allegedly?) Hall deciding when and when not to contest. Tyson, omitted because he was f***ing terrible. You would consider this annus horribilis, sans the fact that the hits are gonna keep coming.

2019 Scott - the chickens come home to roost for Scott. We have SFA development coming through and we are losing to teams we shouldn't still (this was a theme throughout his entire tenure). Scott is now so full of ego and hubris he thinks he is more important than the 150 years this club had been around. This Pisses off a lot of people with influence and he's gone.

2019 Shaw - Physical footy is back but in terms of rebuild it damages our hand at the draft table. Given how Shaw turned out, it actually set us back, appointing him. it is what it is. End of the year Post the Scott clean out Rhyce is one man banding the entire FD or so it would seem. No Rawlings on board, we push our first to a 2020 first which is ok. not ideal, but ok.

2020 - Actual Annus Horribillis. The Hub was a test of the FD and club resolve how together we were, and how well managed we are. We failed. Not by a little bit. We lose a coach who we either ground into dust or we failed to support. either/either it doesn't matter collective sh*t show. We now 4 years after the end point decide that the tough calls on journey men need to be made. There are also ramification from hub life with decent players leaving because we have now picked a direction. we are walking into the fire. Brady cuts deep. Real deep. so deep we are gonna get exposed. We are also in a position where these deep cuts are made with no coach on board. Noble is appointed post trade eon, so whatever plays out this year is with a list that is not of his construction. IN fact given the attacking nature of what we appear to be attempting, biting off the 45 play through the corridor, it is at odds with Rhyce's kick to a contest and crib round the boundary, expect more change.

So you can draw a line in 2016 and say it started then but it didn't. the only thing that started was compounding mistakes.

We are not just rebuilding on-field. The rebuild started December 1 2019. The day Brady took over the role of General Manger of football. Judgement has come and gone for Shaw. Jury is out on Noble. 2020 is the very start of his oversight of recruitment.

We will have some kids that are clearly quality from the 2016 onwards drafts. But it is not going to be cohesive.

The clean out last year was root and branch. Harder than anything that we have done before.

Pointing back to 2016 and saying it started then doesn't account for the actual shitshow that it has been. I think we have it better off field now but we've been shambles behind the scenes. shambles that we are paying on field for right now.

Nightmare stuff...the lost years

 

[DrZaius]

Nightmare stuff...the lost years

Made even worse by Richmond winning 3 flags in that timeframe Gaso

 

[Gasometer]

Made even worse by Richmond winning 3 flags in that timeframe Gaso

This Board and the Cotchin Final...this was us then...fml

 

[danj]

A

if Brad Scott is running the VFL why isn't in line with the senior comp? How is a reserves comp sposed to function like that?

You answered your own question, because Brads running it

 

[DrZaius]

This Board and the Cotchin Final...this was us then...fml

If there is a footy god he is a very cruel and unrelenting god indeed.

 

[Zondor]

It was my understanding that he went with the top up option and then when that didn't work he went back to the board and wanted to go the rebuild route.

It reeks of trying to put lipstick on a pig at what was a largely failed tenure.


Fun fact - as North Melbourne coach Brad Scott holds the record for the most comprehensive losses against more sides than any other North* coach in history.

Yup. That was a one way Horseshit Article by Nialls. He should hang his head in shame. :stern look

 

[Only Forwards]

Future picks? I don't know mate. If we really wanted to I think we could have

We would have had to pick a direction and play kids.

Ben Mckay played a grand total of 0 games that year.

Sam Durdin played 1

Nick Larkey played 0 games.

We played W80 when fit.

We were playing Billy Hartung.

If we'd played kids who didn't get a look in, Mountford, Williams, Xerri. We would have been more exposed, likely lost more, got a higher pick and then we would have likely been able to do something rather than landing around the pick that we would have used anyway.

It is just a symptom of the lack of cohesive vision on where we were headed.

Like it or not we have a direction now. we're doing it the hard way. lots of cuts all at once rather than staged over time replacement.

 

[DarwinRoo]

North Melbourne Playing List for 2018 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Who should we have played in 2018?

 

[Mixed Results]

How would we have gone from 11 to pick 5, 6 or 7 in a (so called) "superdraft"?

Seriously?

If we had pick 7 (and not Thomas) what would you have needed to give it up that year? Let alone pick 5.

Port Adelaide flipped the pick we gave them to Fremantle for pick 6. It only took 23 and 30 to do so. We very easily could have made the same trade and would have had Ben King or Bailey Smith as a result.

 

[Only Forwards]

North Melbourne Playing List for 2018 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Who should we have played in 2018?

Not Billy Hartung.

How's about Nick Larkey won a Frosty Miller medal and played 0 senior games.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Not Billy Hartung.

How's about Nick Larkey won a Frosty Miller medal and played 0 senior games.

Who was Hartung keeping out of the side?

 

[ferball]

...? The entire letter is built, repetitively, on passivity and inertia. "We remain steadfast... to stay true... we will not deviate from the path... have to stay focused... we will continue to work hard... continue to reinforce the club's values... demand we all stay true... we must remain calm... we ask our members and fans to continue to support... we must continue to support..."

Scarcely any of the letter suggests the prospect of change from the position we're in. Pretty much the only time it's brought up is the part I quoted ("footy goes in cycles and it can, and will, turn") and the change promised there is fundamentally passive - not "we will turn around our fortunes", not "we're going to take steps to ensure we don't put in unacceptable performances like that in future", just this meek suggestion that we're at the mercy of circumstances beyond our control, helpless and without agency to do anything except accept 100+-point drubbings, but hey, the universe is cyclical and if we just wait it out we won't be this bad eventually. See also "this situation is foreign to us", "the position we are in at the moment is unfamiliar" - there's no ownership there, no agency, exactly the same "oh well, how unfortunate, but what can we do about it?" rot that's evident in the indifferent performances we've given on field so far this year. Does anyone seriously think this is the attitude that will take us to where we need to be to achieve anything in the future?!

I've been watching the replay today and we actually had great movement of the ball. We ****ed it up alot sure but it looked very different to what we've seen in the past and is exactly what we need to **** teams up imo.

It is a path worth sticking to imo.

The letter is asking people to hold that line and stick to that path.

Inertia is great if you have momentum. We build that momentum by continuing to move in this new direction.

My take from that letter is we have chosen a difficult path because we think it will lead to greatness and we're not piking it at the first sign of difficulty, no matter how foreign to us that difficulty is, its the very opposite of powerlessness and passiveness. "It can, and will, turn." IMO that bolded bit wouldn't be there if what you are saying was the case.

 

[Only Forwards]

Who was Hartung keeping out of the side?

Is that honestly your only point?

Who was keeping Larkey out of the side?

See we can both do this. A verge of retirement W80? W80 wanted him to play....


My point is there was never a cohesive view to rebuild.

It was draft blokes and see how we go.

Coupled with a recruitment stragey of throw money at them and see if they'll come. Is it really a surprise the bloke we got this way has no heart?

We had no answer for the cuts made at the end of 16 and have ambled around pecker in hand up until Brady drove a stake in the ground.

 

[7577969923]

A bit like hitting a great drive on the 18th on your way to a round of 120 plus, the goal by Charlie which was created by some brilliant vision and execution by Powell has me wanting to come back for more. These games are tough but I believe we have some great young talent and Noble is laying the foundations of a game plan that could make us a very, very good team in two to three years.

 

[DarwinRoo]

[

Is that honestly your only point?

Who was keeping Larkey out of the side?

See we can both do this. A verge of retirement W80? W80 wanted him to play....


My point is there was never a cohesive view to rebuild.

It was draft blokes and see how we go.

Coupled with a recruitment stragey of throw money at them and see if they'll come. Is it really a surprise the bloke we got this way has no heart?

We had no answer for the cuts made at the end of 16 and have ambled around pecker in hand up until Brady drove a stake in the ground.

Maybe Larkey kept himself out. Maybe his attitude wasn’t good enough.

Why do supporters think that every young bloke needs to play seniors?

Are they to good to play and develop in the VFL?

No coach should be under any obligation to play a player just because of a date of birth.