We are starting from a low base.
All being well things may improve.
I have optimism but that does not mean we ignore the facts.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Best 23 Pre Trade/Draft - Season 2024
- Thread starter Son_Of_God29
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All being well things may improve.
I have optimism but that does not mean we ignore the facts.
From the look at his post…maybe he will put on some size.
As much as I would like your bet to be true I don’t see him in AFL midfield in 2024. Can’t underestimate that he is still learning the game. I reckon his ceiling is very high so I remain excited for 2025 and beyond. 2024 I just hope he finds a dozen or more AFL games in any position and keeps developing.
If he has a break out year (alongside Mitch and Toby) then I will be happy to be proven wrong.
Facts like the two grand finalists having less combined AA players than we did just a year ago? Things are dynamic but you don't need 10 A Listers to be a strong side. You need a good injury run, great team chemistry and people playing their roles well. Around 10-12 sides have the requisite talent to go far otherwise.
Luke Jackson could develop that way? Maybe?
All makes sense to me. Where does Bowes fit? I really want to like him more than I do (to be clear I do like him but not the same excitement I have for Ollie’s, Clark, Bruhn, Mitch)… On my optimistic days I think maybe develop into a Duncan replacement (versatile, smart, skilled) but I something is holding me back from fully committing…
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He's very afraid of any body contact, I can't see him playing midfield unless that changes. If he puts on more size it may help.
I feel the same on Bowes. Not ready to write off or back to the hilt as of now. Maybe not an essential cog until Duncan and Tuohy are off the books but obviously we need to see what he can bring ASAP. On ball we will have a lot of options, especially with Guthrie and Clark added.
A classy rebounding half back probably makes sense. Or perhaps Duncan shifts back there and Bowes on the wing, with Holmes a more youthful combo?
I see what you are saying. And yes building size may help (69kg doesn’t suit a bash and crash). I reckon some of it might be confidence and mindset too. He will never be a Atkins or Bruhn type (and that is ok) - he will always try and get his possessions “smart” rather than with force. But in some VFL games (Casey for example against Harms and Dunston) he has 23 contested possessions and in his last AFL games 8 tackles - but in others no doubt he is not looking to get in. I will be watching for that this year - whether it develops as he builds confidence…
Again, That is one reason why I don’t see him AFL midfield in 2024 - but not completely ruling out longer term. Agree with Mr Meow (sorry I need to learn how to tag) that for next few years (if he makes it) he will be HHF or maybe wing
Sorry if this has already been posted. But this was Fox Sports attempt at best 23 in 2024 (they did all teams)
GEELONG
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Mark O’Connor, Jhye Clark (sub)
Key off-season ins: —
Key off-season outs: Esava Ratugolea, Isaac Smith, Jon Ceglar, Sam Menegola
WE SAY: The Cats lose some very handy depth at both ends in Esava Ratugolea, but still have the likes of Jack Bowes waiting in the wings after last year’s trade period. Geelong has plenty of forward line depth with Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron mainstays in attack. We should see more of prized draftee Jhye Clark in 2024, while Jed Bews will have to battle with the likes of Zach Tuohy and Mark O’Connor for a spot in the starting side - Tuohy may be the odd man out in what looms as his final season. Mark Blicavs’ versatility gives coach Chris Scott plenty of options in how his side shapes up each week – if he plays as a defender, there’s an extra spot open in the midfield, but he fills that wing/midfield/almost anything role so well. Really the big question is whether they push for youth in the middle, with the likes of Tanner Bruhn, Ollie Dempsey and Mitch Knevitt, or hope guys like Cam Guthrie (six games in 2023) and Mitch Duncan (16) can play more often? And how quickly could Toby Conway take Stanley’s spot as the starting ruck every week? We have the Cats opting for experience in one last flag push before the Hawkins-led core fades out; could they bring in a ready-made prospect with Pick 8?
GEELONG
B: Jake Kolodjashnij, Sam de Koning, Zach Guthrie
HB: Jack Henry, Tom Stewart, Jed Bews
C: Max Holmes, Cam Guthrie, Mark Blicavs
HF: Ollie Henry, Jeremy Cameron, Tyson Stengle
F: Gryan Miers, Tom Hawkins, Brad Close
FOLL: Rhys Stanley, Mitch Duncan, Patrick Dangerfield
I/C: Tom Atkins, Gary Rohan, Tanner Bruhn, Mark O’Connor, Jhye Clark (sub)
Key off-season ins: —
Key off-season outs: Esava Ratugolea, Isaac Smith, Jon Ceglar, Sam Menegola
WE SAY: The Cats lose some very handy depth at both ends in Esava Ratugolea, but still have the likes of Jack Bowes waiting in the wings after last year’s trade period. Geelong has plenty of forward line depth with Tom Hawkins and Jeremy Cameron mainstays in attack. We should see more of prized draftee Jhye Clark in 2024, while Jed Bews will have to battle with the likes of Zach Tuohy and Mark O’Connor for a spot in the starting side - Tuohy may be the odd man out in what looms as his final season. Mark Blicavs’ versatility gives coach Chris Scott plenty of options in how his side shapes up each week – if he plays as a defender, there’s an extra spot open in the midfield, but he fills that wing/midfield/almost anything role so well. Really the big question is whether they push for youth in the middle, with the likes of Tanner Bruhn, Ollie Dempsey and Mitch Knevitt, or hope guys like Cam Guthrie (six games in 2023) and Mitch Duncan (16) can play more often? And how quickly could Toby Conway take Stanley’s spot as the starting ruck every week? We have the Cats opting for experience in one last flag push before the Hawkins-led core fades out; could they bring in a ready-made prospect with Pick 8?
I'm not sure about the finalists having fewer AA players than us a year ago.
Having A-listers must be a primary advantage. When the heat is on I believe more often than not the champions stands up. Sure it is not the only parameter. Give me a Dusty in a final of a couple of years ago.
In the near future, we are in need of players coming through as our better players are more injury-prone and are simply older. This is the point I am trying to make. Whilst we have potential on our list other teams would say the same thing. The system is the backbone but the A players are the icing needed.
We did not qualify last year as other teams had a better mix of ingredients. Drafting mediocre players in a great system is simply not enough.
Well he's not a ruckman, because anytime his ruck efforts are queried that's what you get told. If he is a ruckman he averages 10.6 hitouts a game. That's not A-grade either.
If it's tagger or winger (both disputable), they're both midfield positions as well. What's left?
With this being the 2024 thread so my reasoning was based purely on possibilities for next year. A massive pre season and the possibility of a non torturous injury run are reasons enough for me to get excited when I look at our full list of players. There is plenty of quality and potential.
I appreciate and understand that won't be the case for everyone.
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He is a ruckman, and his role as such has been essential to the team structure, allowing Stanley and Hawkins to also fill dual roles.
He's not an A Grade ruckman because he's not big enough, but he's as good as any in the League when it comes to halving and/or winning boundary throw-in contests against bigger opponents.
The simple fact is that he is not solely a "midfielder", and he cannot reasonably be judged solely on the possessions he records in that part of his overall role.
I don't care whether or not anyone thinks he's an A Grader or not; in my opinion that's simply a junk measurement or opinion.
But I don't know either how anyone can form the opinion one way or another, given that he's the only player who performs his unique combination of roles.
He's sui generis, so who do you measure and rate him against?
Blicavs, is in the inside midfield rotations full time and holds down the 2nd ruck. No one else does that.
Luke Jackson plays as a traditional 2nd ruck, play forward cover the ruck when the number 1 ruck is on the bench. I thought they'd try to use him like we use Blicavs. I thought that when Melbourne traded for Grundy, they would use him like we use Blicavs. Neither did.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
He is a "classic" hybrid, and can and does get used wherever and whenever needed, with great effect. Always high in B&F, and already has 2 of his own.
Kobe Gryant
'07, '09, '11, '22
All true, but the same has been said for so long it's just white noise at this point.
Put it this way: If we were able to improve or hold ground for the last decade with limited youth, I see no reason that we won't be able to do the same or better with significantly better youth acquired over the last 4 years.
The naysayers on this board for so long wanted draft picks. Much like David King, they wanted picks in the top 20-30.
Now we've got them, it's about to be 9 or even 10 in 4 years. We're not talking about duds here.
If we weren't such a well run and proud club, we could easily hide behind the curtains and call that a rebuild...but we don't.
You can guarantee any other club bringing in that collection of high picks in that length of time would call it a rebuild. We don't.
It's going to get to a point very soon where we've covered all bases in terms of rebuilding/restructuring, and posters are still going to be predicting the impending doom.
Like you say, the system is the backbone, and particularly in this era of footy you need 5 or 6 stars to compliment that IMO.
We'll develop these players in the hope that a handful can make the jump to elite, with a couple already showing obvious signs that they'll get there.
- Conway
- Holmes
- Clark
- Bruhn
- SDK
- Jack Henry
- Ollie Henry
- Stengle
- Knevitt
- Dempsey
- Neale
- Mullin
- Bowes
- Zach Guthrie
- Close
- Miers
- Pick 8
- Pick 25
The goal here will be securing a handful of elite/good players, and then the remainder being solid, role playing AFL footballers.
You then add to that by enticing a Bailey Smith, Aaron Cadman, or players of that ilk to come to your club.
While your waiting for it all to click, and the players to reach their prime years, you keep adding picks every year with the goal of building a sustainable, quality list.
Even the great sides are built mainly off a handful of elite players. The remainder are trades, spare parts, etc.
Hawthorn '08
- Buddy
- Hodge
- Mitchell
- Lewis
- Roughead
(The likes of Rioli, Shiels, Breust, Gunston, rise later)
Geelong '07
- Scarlett
- Mooney
- Bartel
- Johnson
- Ablett
- Corey
- Enright
(The likes of Selwood, Duncan, Taylor, Hawkins, Christensen, Guthrie, rise later)
Collingwood '10
- Cloke
- Swan
- Pendlebury
- Thomas
- Didak
- Beams
(Harder to judge as they blew up the list, but it should have been Adams, Crisp, De Goey, Moore on the rise)
***********************
The point being, you have your core, and you either have players developing, or you draft them later on to keep it going.
The remaining names aren't insignificant by any means. Very, very good players, but the core is what's going to decide the result most weeks.
If I had to guess what that's going to be for us in a few years, I'd go with this.
Geelong '25
- Clark
- Conway
- SDK
- O Henry
- Bruhn
- Holmes
- Stengle
- J Henry
- B Smith (Or alike)
- A Cadman (Or alike)
It's a very young core, even with possible trade additions. It's why Pure_Ownage and I have been strong on what the real hole in our list is, it's the players in their prime.
I truly believe that core would win us a premiership, but it won't be that year. They're just too young.
We're going to need to add players in their prime over the coming years as we transition the list. The old guys will be retiring, and the kids won't quite be ready.
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With all due respect >
1. Measurement entails far more than disposals.
2. Blitz is far more than only a midfielder.
3. Blitz has 2 Carji's to his credit and always polls well in that award as determined by people with footy nous, who are not only present at every game but know what his role is in every game.
4. There would not be a coach in the AFL who wouldn't have Blitz in their best 22.
5. Sorry, but you are arguably the most negative poster on this board when it comes to the club you claim to support.
6. You made a pickle of yourself when you claimed Blitz was an athlete rather than a footballer ages ago. Just when time has clouded that memory you return with another comment that demonstrates you've learned zero.
MacStradbroke
Norm Smith Medallist
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I reckon they would copy the Blicavs model for sure if they’re starting ruck wasn’t Sean Darcy. The positive side to Blicavs for Cats (especially last season) was the Stanley could drop back and play across half back. Phenomenal coaching for whoever identified this system that we had the players to make it work. As good a strategy as I’ve seen or read about in recent afl times.
While not fair to compare anything to those 3 teams, esp our 07 team. I think you've understated the size of core required to get that level.
Looking at what we have I worry about the quality and quantity of the group. The gap between being cometative (which at least our guys are) and dominating is huge. We've gotten use to having the Dangerfield cheat code, as he is starting to slow down, it is clear no one coming through is close to even his current level.
I worry about an overall talent gap.
Kobe Gryant
'07, '09, '11, '22
If you're worried about our core, get ready for a panic attack when you look at the rest of the league.
The expansion clubs have diluted the talent so much so that clubs winning premierships these days are full of role players, journeyman, and alike.
There's only 5-6 genuine guns per side these days. Maybe a couple more in a great side, and a couple less in a poor side.
What's changed things though is the focus on system. Clubs have adapted and realised it's far more viable to build a system that suits your handful of stars, but is largely based upon the efforts of your role players.
Richmond is a classic example. They built a dynasty by tooling a gameplan that revolves around Dustin Martin forward of the ball.
He didn't have to chase, didn't have to tackle, didn't even really work in transition. The goal was to keep him fresh, and to capitalise on turnover forward of the ball.
Would that have worked 15-20 years ago? Maybe, but chances are you're still going to be beaten by more talent laden sides.
The difference with this era was the other clubs weren't more talented, and if they were, the difference was hardly stark.
When it's set up like that, the club with the best system will succeed as we've seen.
To finish, this is exactly my point about how there's always going to be doomsday predictions.
During our dynasty, it was tipped we'd fall over because we wouldn't have the same depth of talent over the next decade.
Then it was tipped that we'd fall over because we wouldn't find a partner to Selwood, or replace Enright, or even before that, Scarlett.
Then it was the midfield, which we landed the man you mention, Patrick Dangerfield, while finding Tim Kelly, and developing Cam Guthrie & Mitch Duncan.
Then it became a Hawkins problem, with his longevity questioned, and question marks on our ability to win a flag with him as the sole target.
As a result, we go and get Jeremy Cameron.
My point being, these problems keep arising, and time after time they keep getting fixed.
Many, including myself, have said this time it will fail, and it just doesn't happen. This club keeps finding a way.
The landscape has changed. You need to hit your draft picks (Which we've been doing) but FA & trade acquisitions take YEARS off of rebuilds.
I gave up doubting this clubs ability to figure things out and rebuild years ago, it just doesn't work. I've said it before, but we need to change our perspectives.
We're not like any other AFL club anymore, we're closer to being a wealthy Rugby league or European soccer club.
It's not 2004 anymore. Football is a business now, and our club is the best run in the league.
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Ummm, how about Cameron? You know, the best player in the comp when he is fit….
- Jan 25, 2008
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By that logic, Blicavs at his best is also.
At his best he plays a totally different role to any other top liner in the game, but his influence on the game is immense. He has a big impact in his own right and because of his flexibility allows everyone else in the team to play their ideal role.
Surely you can see that he doesn’t play a traditional midfield only role and comparing his stats to pure ball winning midfielders is folly. Unless you are making this comparison just to downplay his impact and be contrarian. Perish the thought.
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