Bluemour Discussion Thread XII - Facts Not Welcome (cont in pt 13)

[GordonBlue]

I would do this:
Pick 1 for Shiel, Scully, Setterfield
(May seem unders, but GWS want Pick 1 and by adding Scully they can get it and free up space)

Future 1st rounder plus McAdams for McGovern, their future 1st and Pick 19

Trade Pick 24 and 25 to Sydney for 13

Fasolo FA

So that's
In: Shiel, Setterfield, Scully, McGovern, Fasolo,, Pick 13, Pick 19 Adelaide's future 1st and maintain the priority pick (hoping Grigg)

Out: Pick 1, Pick 24, Pick 25, Future 1st, Priority Pick

Suddenly our midfield would be:
Cripps, Shiel, Scully, Fisher, Murphy, Grigg, Setterfield, Kennedy (forgotten man), E Curnow, Dow, SPS

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[gardiner stand]

Not directed at you GS, but it seems We say that every year, and then every year there’s 4-5 days of absolutely nothing happening. Then a mad rush in the last two hours before the leaks start coming out about all the deals that might have been done if clubs started agreeing to deals earlier. AFL clubs are such amateurs with this stuff.

I think the Neale deal if done quickly will get things going early this time with Hogan and May to follow. The McGovern deal has the potential to hold things up if Adelaide play hard ball.

 

[passmark]

Would also make sense that GWS are the only top 8 side that interviewed Walsh.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I think Carlton would know his injury status if we were entertaining the idea.

Doesn't instill much confidence given our medical team's track record...

 

[JustaBattler]

GWS would know we have to pay up for McGovern - everyone does. If they want this year' s #1 for Shiel/Scully and Setterfield and we need enough to get McGovern done - there is enough wiggle room in our second rounders and next years to get a deal done so that they give us a first rounder back for McGovern.

That is valuing mature player picks at nothing of interest to any other CLub and nothing coming to Carlton from any unexpected trade.

Too good to knock back if Setterfield and Scully are fit to do a pre-season.

 

[Hands On]

For arguments sake I can try.

Shiel is probably worth #5 alone. Setterfield worth #15, Scully #15. That is considering injury and contract status. Potential wise, Setterfield could be top 5.

2 experienced players make our midfield strong and make us an attractive proposition for more players next season.

Walsh's ceiling is still unknown, he isn't particularly quick and may have been hyped on here by our need for mids. He hasn't been spoken of as a generational player like Lukosius or Rankine for example. He is a safe bet midfielder with a natural feel for the game, slightly lighter than other mids of his quality taken in previous years.

Scully and Shiel add pace and explosive gap running and link up play. Scully will run all day. You get 3 players for the price of one, with maybe 5, 7 and 12 years left in the game.

Cripps will love the support, Dow won't be getting close attention for a while so can develop his craft more easily and the rest of the young players will get to experience more wins and grow in confidence.

Simmo and Cripps have both said they would love to get some quality experienced help in the midfield next year.

How did I do?

Smashed it.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Next years 1st round pick with an upgrade of another ie. 2018 pick 25 for say their 3rd rounder should hopefully get it done. Don’t forget we are helping with their cap!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not really, they know they’re in trouble with the salary cap next year, I totally understand them being open to trading Shiel now before free agency. Scully is actually the one I don’t understand, he is reportedly on not a very big salary and signed for a couple of more years

They're obviously not confident in his ability to recover from the ankle injury. They'd know better than anyone else how bad it is.

 

[JustaBattler]

Next years 1st round pick with an upgrade of another ie. 2018 pick 25 for say their 3rd rounder should hopefully get it done. Don’t forget we are helping with their cap!

If you are right I'll shout you a beer or five.

 

[PP34]

I rate and respect Clarkson as much as anyone. I just feel that this year was a little bit of a false dawn. Perfect storm of negotiable fixture and winning a number of close games.

Mitchell, Gunston, JOM, Breust, Smith are elite.. but Roughead, Big boy, Burgoyne, poppy are all closer to the end than prime..

Next batch there are Burton, Hardwick and not much else, despite that much vaunted quickest rebuild.

Not saying their slide is imminent, but unless (by Clarkson’s own admission), they get more elite talent, then they’re a long way off and no guarantee to stay near the top.


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The thing is they’ve already got talent. That’s what I’m getting at. You can say they’ve got holes and all that and I agree. But they’ve still got Gunston, Mitchell etc.

We are a very young team rebuilding. Like it or not there are no guarantees. Right now we have Cripps, Docherty, Curnow and then Simpson and Murphy as older talents. All the other young guys have shown glimpses but there are no guarantees they turn into Gunston, Mitchell etc level players hence why I could understand if a guy like Shiel passes on playing for us.

Difference being, Hawks are building a list that will continue to play finals, Blues are building a list to win a premiership.

Even Boomer Harvey on Trade Radio tonight said he rates Carlton's list built higher than Hawthorn...having said that, Hawthorn historically get their man...

nuff said

Bit ridiculous to say the Hawks are simply building to stay in the finals. Clarkson knows more than anyone about building a premiership list. In one of the two off seasons they’ve had since moving on from Sam Mitchell etc they brought in O’Meara and Tom Mitchell, two guys you’d dream of drafting with top picks. Just because they’re not hitting the draft doesn’t mean they’re not interested in flags.

 

[F_therest]

If the rumour of a package of GWS players (Shiel, Setterfield and Scully) is true, I hope A Kennedy is also part of the package.

Our run would be so much better with Docherty and Williamson back as well, O’Brien, Dow, Fisher, Pickett ... (and SPS after a pre-season).

Let's go big for mature players.

Shiel, scully, setterfield, Kennedy and pick 14 for our 2018 & 2019 1st picks.

On trade 14 for McGovern. We have enough young talent ATM and we can still find gems later in the draft.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Doesn't instill much confidence given our medical team's track record...

We have just been through a review. I think we will have fixed a few things.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

My thoughts exactly.

Why do you think they're willing to offer all that up?

They obviously know there's more value in this year's #1 pick.

And we will be mutual beneficiaries of it. Scully and Shiel become our 2nd and 3rd best mid's behinds Cripps and we get a potential 10 - 12 year player who has the potential to be every bit as good as Walsh, if not even better. GWS get the benefit of first pick in the draft and instant salary cap relief that they will benefit from in being able to re-sign the players OOC next season. That's called a win - win situation.

 

[Judds Junk]

Next years 1st round pick with an upgrade of another ie. 2018 pick 25 for say their 3rd rounder should hopefully get it done. Don’t forget we are helping with their cap!

I would prefer this, then this years 1st, puts the pressure on us to improve now, which is a good thing.
I'd do Shiel, Setterfield, Scully for 2019 1st & Pick 25 in a heart beat (honestly I'd be fine with not even swapping 25 for their 3rd rounder)

Then McGovern for Pick 24 + State league player of the Crows choice.
Other State league player for Scrimshaw.

Pick 1 - Walsh.

Shiel, Setterfield, Scully, McGovern, Fasolo, Scrimshaw, Walsh. = a lot of big in's, and hopefully an 8 - 10 win season in 2019.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Next years 1st round pick with an upgrade of another ie. 2018 pick 25 for say their 3rd rounder should hopefully get it done. Don’t forget we are helping with their cap!

There’s no way next years first would get that done in my opinion. They are hunting for pick 1, not a future pick. Especially if they are strengthening our list which would lower the value of that pick.

 

[Aphrodite]

X-Files - Scully

‘Gaffey too I think I see kangaroos’ - Gaff

‘Said no to Freo’ - McGovern

‘Dylan’s in Carlton’s team’ - Shiel

‘Ps private jet to Noosa was a gift from the Pratts’ -Raph Geminder, Anthony Pratt

But what would I know?

It Was Zac Fried private jet not Pratt’s

 

[F_therest]

I think Carlton would know his injury status if we were entertaining the idea.

Most definitely, I just mean for us diehards on here debating whether the trade is good or not.

I've already seen numerous posters point out his injury as one reason they wouldn't trade pick 1 for him, Shiel and setterfield.

 

[Bluebag13]

Wasn’t there a rumour that we haven’t interviewed Walsh yet?


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[Blue and Blue]

My thoughts exactly.

Why do you think they're willing to offer all that up?

They obviously know there's more value in this year's #1 pick.

And SOS just knows in two or three years whoever thay nab at pick one comes to us

 

[passmark]

The thing is they’ve already got talent. That’s what I’m getting at. You can say they’ve got holes and all that and I agree. But they’ve still got Gunston, Mitchell etc.

We are a very young team rebuilding. Like it or not there are no guarantees. Right now we have Cripps, Docherty, Curnow and then Simpson and Murphy as older talents. All the other young guys have shown glimpses but there are no guarantees they turn into Gunston, Mitchell etc level players hence why I could understand if a guy like Shiel passes on playing for us.

Bit ridiculous to say the Hawks are simply building to stay in the finals. Clarkson knows more than anyone about building a premiership list. In one of the two off seasons they’ve had since moving on from Sam Mitchell etc they brought in O’Meara and Tom Mitchell, two guys you’d dream of drafting with top picks. Just because they’re not hitting the draft doesn’t mean they’re not interested in flags.

Does anyone think the Hawks were that far off it this year?

Top 4 and with a couple of additional players there's nothing to stop them playing in a GF.

Don't forget they have Ryan Burton and Port and Adelaide may have a lot of draft picks to spend on SA talent.

I hate Clarko but he targets players uses the pieces as good as anyone.

It might be that alone that stops GWS trading with them. They want to win a flag, losing Shiel may not make GWS a lot weaker but he could make Hawthorn a hell of a lot stronger and they're both fighting for top 4.

 

[passmark]

Wasn’t there a rumour that we haven’t interviewed Walsh yet?


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No.

We definitely interviewed him and he said he'd be over the moon to go to the Baggers.

 

[F_therest]

Not really, they know they’re in trouble with the salary cap next year, I totally understand them being open to trading Shiel now before free agency. Scully is actually the one I don’t understand, he is reportedly on not a very big salary and signed for a couple of more years

Supposedly $500k.

Far from their biggest earners but still decent cap relief...and a more expendable player.

 

[bluemahogany]

It Was Zac Fried private jet not Pratt’s

How'd the meeting go

 

[Aphrodite]

Wasn’t there a rumour that we haven’t interviewed Walsh yet?


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We have ...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/carltons-2018-draft-thread.1187246/page-301#post-58218495

No.

We definitely interviewed him and he said he'd be over the moon to go to the Baggers.

 

[Blue and Blue]

One thing is for sure , this trade period will be massive with players changing clubs left right and centre

That remains to be seen.....and we have seen the smoke without fire year after year...talk it mostly is....and mostly by people outside the arena