Autopsy Cats lose their way in 18 points loss to Saints

[Finknottle]

Say what you like but giving up 13 goals 5 in a half to a Ross Lyon team is unforgivable. It’s a players thing. Nothing to do with C Scott who is trying everything to ring out every once of talent we have.

Stewart in the midfield isn’t working. It works at the stoppages for sure but he can’t run like a modern midfielder. At the ground he goes nowhere. Like Danger they just don’t spread. If the game goes the other way we are cooked.

It also takes away our one wood of dictating what the other team does fwd of the ball. Kolo and Henry are good footballers but they need Stewarts pure football nous. Guthrie was doing that but he’s dropped away.

Atkins and Bkitz were woeful (again). Knevitt was non existing on his wing. I just don’t know what the hell Duncan, Mullin ect are doing. Holmes is now in btw roles every second week.

The midfield is the worst in the league and we spend all kinds of funky ways trying to cover for them. Cameron trying to play that connector role that Blitz and Danger usual do. SDK in the ruck.

A well over 30 and past their best Stanley, Danger and Blitz with a Bowes, Atkins and Mannagh is a VFL midfield. Apologies to Danger who is still our best player.

I agree the Stewart midfield experiment has failed. Midfield requires quick hands and feet and quick decision making which Stewart does not have. He needs to go back to where he came from. Same with Blicavs, he has slowed down in body and mind. His ruckwork is terrible, SDK was much more effective. So we are a couple of midfielders short. Maybe elevate someone from the Magoos. Otherwise I don't have an answer.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Not overly disappointed as I don't think we are much good and thought we would get beat anyway.

Henry and Neale are 2 of the softest footballers I have ever seen represent this club. Both talented and do the odd good thing, but generally end up being a non event.

Jeremy Cameron is fast becoming an overpaid downhill skier. Goes missing way to often to be considered anywhere near the best players in the competition. Struggles to do the basics, like hit a 20 metre pass to a guy in space and then tries some fancy rubbish rather than doing the obvious. Is non competitive again in the air.

Tonight there were issues all over the ground, but to me the majority start with the insipid efforts from our forwards who once again managed to make the opposition key defenders look like superstars. Compete or piss off.

Ollie Henry I'd be happy to see never play again, deadset liability.

Wilkie kills most he plays on .
Both H and Shan prob better on the lead .imo.

Totally unsure on neale since draft night when we tried to take Gulden of the swans.
They matched we got neale ..

 

[My Tilly]

Likewise, I think Swans supporters would probably say Geelong at the SCG is the best chance they have at winning their first final.

Probably the opposite really. Sydney are soft and will finally get cut apart by the real favourites in GWS come finals time but I would like our chances against them myself. They have not been playing solid footy at all.
Cats need De Koning though. Stanley or Blicavs will need help against Grundy.

 

[Finknottle]

The more I think about it, these players are unlikely to go on next year. Hawkins, Dangerfield, Duncan, Blicavs, Rohan, Stanley. Apart from Dangerfield the others have deteriorated to the point that delisting makes sense.

 

[My Tilly]

My god you post some s**t.

Where did you feel we lost it last night?

Very bizarre game.
Typical Geelong though. They have always dropped these types of games.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

A lot of unsavoury posts in here at the moment.
Very disappointing result but this is a team going through a transitional phase and they are effectively going to finish top 4.

Imagine what Brisbane and Bulldogs fans be feeling. Legitimate premiership calibre teams and are in no better position than ourselves.

Bang on. Yeah it sucks, but with some perspective it's not that big a deal.

This year is a bonus year. We do have a great opportunity, but more so due to the state of the competition rather than our own excellence.

We're not pissing away a premiership list, or looking like wasting a shot that's taken years of pain to build (Brisbane, Carlton, Dogs)

It's just another year where we're a good - but not great - team.

Could win the flag if it all goes right, or go out in straight sets if things don't line up how we'd like, not dissimilar to many others over the journey.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Oh come on. He was coming off concussion. How did cameron and stewart go coming off concussion? Our return to form this year coincided with a string of really good rohan games. Just 6 weeks ago. Better then anything henry has played this year. And at worst rohan was no worse then ollie henry was tonight. In my view he was noticably better.

A couple of weeks ago you wrote off stanley and he played a blinder last week. Was far from our worst tonight too.

The difference is stanleys best is still ok but he cant back it up every week as his knee is bone on bone. I dont think rohan has that physical alibi. And more to the point we are picking stanley as all our other rucks are injured and we have no choice. We have many options for forwards which is why rohan wont play finals on current form.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Bang on. Yeah it sucks, but with some perspective it's not that big a deal.

This year is a bonus year. We do have a great opportunity, but more so due to the state of the competition rather than our own excellence.

We're not pissing away a premiership list, or looking like wasting the a shot that's taken years to build (Brisbane, Carlton, Dogs)

It's just another year where we're a good - but not great - team. Could win the flag if it all goes right, or go out in straight sets if things don't line up how we'd like.

Yes but from where i sit the comp will never be as weak as it is now. This is a golden opportunity to not let slip its not a bonus.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Look, I'm not saying we're a great shot at beating the Swans, but I think it's by far our best shot at beating anyone except maybe Freo

We would have been better off with port at the G than sydney at SCG. Scg doesnt suit us.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's the opinion. If Hawk is available and the fwd line remains dysfunctional, he'll be in.

He wont be fit enough to be available so its irrelevant. Its too late for him.

 

[My Tilly]

We would have been better off with port at the G than sydney at SCG. Scg doesnt suit us.

Why?
Port are winning ugly and getting it done this year in Melbourne.
Their midfield is better than Sydney and Aliir is arguably top three at the moment at full back.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Where did you feel we lost it last night?

Very bizarre game.

Agreed, I felt it summed up our season in a nutshell.

When we have pressure around the ball and can get the game going on our terms, we allow our defence to press up and get our intercept game going where we do look like a top 4 quality side.

Jack Henry epitomized this, who I thought had a super first half being able to play offensively with his intercept game.

Unfortunately, to my eye we don't seem to be able to stop teams getting a run on when the tide turns this year.

Tonight was unique, as the third quarter Saints blitz came more through their ability to chip kick through our zone, and seemingly always have a free man forward of the ball.

I did find that concerning, as it's a different result than say the Port or GWS games for instance.

We were just beaten by a midfield that could literally walk out of centre clearance and hit forwards on the lead on those occasions, where as tonight, we just seemingly left a man available repeatedly.

From what I can see, it comes down to our high risk, high reward pressure game that we're playing at the moment.

We swarm so heavily to contests that we almost always have the outnumber, but if we're beaten, we're highly susceptible to easy scores out the back which we saw tonight.

 

[My Tilly]

Agreed, I felt it summed up our season in a nutshell.

When we have pressure around the ball and can get the game going on our terms, we allow our defence to press up and get our intercept game going where we do look like a top 4 quality side.

Jack Henry epitomized this, who I thought had a super first half being able to play offensively with his intercept game.

Unfortunately, to my eye we don't seem to be able to stop teams getting a run on when the tide turns this year.

Tonight was unique, as the third quarter Saints blitz came more through their ability to chip kick through our zone, and seemingly always have a free man forward of the ball.

I did find that concerning, as it's a different result than say the Port or GWS games for instance.

We were just beaten by a midfield that could literally walk out of centre clearance and hit forwards on the lead on those occasions, where as tonight, we just seemingly left a man available repeatedly.

From what I can see, it comes down to our high risk, high reward pressure game that we're playing at the moment.

We swarm so heavily to contests that we almost always have the outnumber, but if we're beaten, we're highly susceptible to easy scores out the back which we saw tonight.

Credit to St Kilda, they played with dare in the second half. Made for a terrific game and these losses are needed for young players. They learn more from that one than any 2 goal win.

West Coast will be ready, particularly Reid who will try and impress but win that and we get to experience finals footy which is invaluable for guys like Henry, Dempsey, Humphries etc.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Yes but from where i sit the comp will never be as weak as it is now. This is a golden opportunity to not let slip its not a bonus.

You're overdoing it PO.

I get that it's emotional in the moment, and yes the competition isn't what it once was - but trust me - if you can't see that we're punching well above our weight this year, then you'll realise sometime down the track with the benefit of hindsight.

2007 was a golden opportunity.

2008 was a golden opportunity gone begging.

2009 & '11 were golden opportunities, as we knew we were at minimum the second best team in it...and even if you thought that way, the gap wasn't big.

2022 was a golden opportunity by August of that year.

These were years where we were clearly the best side in it, and had we not walked away with the silverware (like '08) we would've rued the wasted chance for years down the track. It's unforgettable.

2024 is nothing like that. If we don't win the flag this year, nobody's going to look back and think "Jeez, the '24 Cats really let that one get away".

We'll just be another pretty good side to not quite get there. You see them every year.

We've got kids all over the park, veterans who half this board think should have already retired, and some valuable role players who whilst we love as supporters, aren't absolute top liners.

Could we pinch it? Absolutely we could, but we'd be doing just that, "pinching" a flag.

It's not a golden opportunity, it's an unlikely opportunity that we can hopefully make the most of.

 

[RUNVS]

I reckon it’d be better if we finished 5th. Sydney in Sydney is worse

I am guessing you stopped watching AFL in round 12 and have only just started watching again?

 

[CHAWKTS]

We will make top 4 but we threw away a first G final vs port or gws and likely 2 finals in vic.
Will have to win it the hard way.
To make that mistake in a bradbury year makes my blood boil.

All we needed was 1 more qtr and we shut thwm out. Our stoppages defense was good eafly fhen it disappeared after half time.

Dempsey and mannagh very good again but on the whole we had too many passengers tonight.
Team has it in them to win 3 finals but needs a rocket.

Agree. I actually think we match up well against Sydney (but also play well at AO). Now for us to win big games we need all of Danger, Stewart and Cameron to play well - and all of them can’t do it 4 weeks in a row…so we need to get that extra bye I think.

I have confidence in the likes of Dempsey, Mannagh, Miers, Stengle, Close, Holmes, J Henry, Kolo, Bowes, Atkins etc to mostly play well - it is our “big 3” that have been inconsistent (not badly but given we must have all 3 we need them on each week) and for us to win the whole thing (which whilst feels hard after tonight is absolutely in the mix given every other team has issues as well) those 3 players will need a break so we can play the last 2 finals at peak fresh

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Smashed in the contest, killed on the outside.

The second half showed us that we are no where near it.

Will make top 4 due to the Lions losing, but we are a long long way from being a premiership threat.

That was embarrassing stuff.

On a different note the competition is so even I don’t understand why supporters continue to underestimate opposition.
The Saints were always a threat. Not easy beats.

The second half showed us that we were rooted after a brutal game in Perth last week.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

I said pre-game that we'd learn a lot about this team in this game, and we did.
This is a good team, on their day, depending on circumstances. But a loss like that, two weeks out from finals, it doesn't spell much more for our season than a first or second-round finals exit. We're transitioning, as people have said, and transitioning teams don't win Grand Finals very often.

Obviously hoping we can rally and give a better account of ourselves soon, but the writing is on the wall for me personally.

 

[CHAWKTS]

So had to watch the replay before I could work out what happened - it was so hard to tell at the game…

Actually the replay wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. Yes the third qtr was a "disaster" as was a 3 minute patch in the 4th (where they kicked 3 goals). Other than that our footy was ok and we just couldn't sustain the pressure for long enough.

Some of the negative posts in this forum is quite astounding. For people to now write us off as any chance of winning the flag is just hyperbole...EVERY single team in the mix (which St Kilda is NOT) has had shocking qtrs and bad games. We have to accept the even-ness of the competition is real and it doesn't take much to make a team look second rate.

Match ups are also a real thing...and St Kilda seem to always play well against the Cats - especially at Marvel Stadium.

Would I bet my house on us winning - no...Car...maybe not...But can we win it -absolutely. It is a competition which means we need to compare ourselves not against out emotional fan wish for perfection but against other teams. Brisbane were certainties 2 weeks ago and have lost two in a row...before that Carlton took over as favourites and are now struggling to make the 8...and of course Sydney were clear favourites (as were Geelong at round 7!) but look vulnerable.

So focussing on this game - a lot went right for St Kilda in the second half - but they did also play well. Marshall got on top and Wilke was amazing. I have seen O Henry been blamed for that but in the first half all of his intercept marks were against Rohan. In the second he switched on to Henry but often had the benefit of an extra number.

My view on some players

Humpries - amazing. Grows each week. Career high disposals (second half only 5 but..) at 92% efficiency

Bowes - one of his best I think for us. Certainly his best when not playing MF (only went in CBA 4 times) although DE let him down (58% given 19 of his 31 were uncontested). Still trying to work out how to use him best?

Kolo and J Henry I thought were pretty good in the backline. Guthrie was below his high standards

Mannagh another good game. A little more uncontested ratio than normal and 5 turnovers is high for him. But 21 and 2 goals I will take every week along with 4 stoppage clearances.

Dempsey to me was more impressive on the replay. 20 and a goal and a goal assist is now pretty much his average - which from the wing is elite. 85% DE and 8 score involvements (cats high) shows how key he now is to our team

Danger was also pretty good but not able to repeat the 4th qtr heroics of last week. We need him firing in finals!

I thought Stewart and Jezza were both poor despite statistics being ok. both to my eye looked fumble and just a little off - in particular when it mattered. They are stars but are going to have a "bad one" ever so often. Just can't afford any in Sept!

Miers ok but no great impact and Holmes was pretty good but did have 8 turnovers - too many for a good game

Mullin will be rewarded by the coaches - we can't underestimate the tagging role on Hill

O Henry does seem a little off of late. I am not in the camp that he is "no good" - I think he will be a very very good player forus. But it isn't quite happening for him. Despite that he was miles more impactful than Rohan which I assume is why they subbed him. If Rohan is going to stay in 23 I think it will be as sub.

I thought Neale was ok - pretty good in parts.

Duncan I don't think is a natural sub - and can get exposed in the backline. If we are going to play Bowes down back (I wouldn't but maybe he gets squeezed there) then I find it hard to see where they want to play Duncan (with bowes and Humphries in backline)

Bad loss - but not as impactful as it would have been if Brisbane won...which they didn't.

We can win 3 games (in 5 weeks including two byes) if we don't have to play them all in a row. Our "big 3" need to play 3 huge games - if they do we can win.

 

[CHAWKTS]

I said pre-game that we'd learn a lot about this team in this game, and we did.
This is a good team, on their day, depending on circumstances. But a loss like that, two weeks out from finals, it doesn't spell much more for our season than a first or second-round finals exit. We're transitioning, as people have said, and transitioning teams don't win Grand Finals very often.

Obviously hoping we can rally and give a better account of ourselves soon, but the writing is on the wall for me personally.

That is how we look at it because we focus on our team...

But Sydney's writing is also on the wall in that they can no longer put 4 qtrs together and against "a good team in finals" that will hurt them..

Port look best placed - but it is Port! They have 3 Geelong rejects in best 23 - surely they can't win!

Giants have a tendency to lose finals they should win

Brisbane has lost 2 in a row and now won't make top 4 = hurts them big time

Bulldogs don't think can win it this time from outside top 4. rely on too few.

Carlton/Freo may not make it!

Hawks are due for a bad loss


So in context of the competition (ie. someone has to beat us!) I think we are as good a chance as any. We need to win 3 finals which is doable (only if we win first final I think - we will need a bye) if our big 3 play their best football. I think we have another 15+ plus players who will come along with the big 3

 

[Finknottle]

Probably the opposite really. Sydney are soft and will finally get cut apart by the real favourites in GWS come finals time but I would like our chances against them myself. They have not been playing solid footy at all.
Cats need De Koning though. Stanley or Blicavs will need help against Grundy

I agree that Sydney has dropped in form. Who wins? A team a bit down on their best or a team that can only play half a game of football and then throw in the towel?

 

[Finknottle]

That is how we look at it because we focus on our team...

But Sydney's writing is also on the wall in that they can no longer put 4 qtrs together and against "a good team in finals" that will hurt them..

Port look best placed - but it is Port! They have 3 Geelong rejects in best 23 - surely they can't win!

Giants have a tendency to lose finals they should win

Brisbane has lost 2 in a row and now won't make top 4 = hurts them big time

Bulldogs don't think can win it this time from outside top 4. rely on too few.

Carlton/Freo may not make it!

Hawks are due for a bad loss


So in context of the competition (ie. someone has to beat us!) I think we are as good a chance as any. We need to win 3 finals which is doable (only if we win first final I think - we will need a bye) if our big 3 play their best football. I think we have another 15+ plus players who will come along with the big 3

Did you watch the game tonight? Geelong was owned by a team that was 14th on the ladder. Your scenarios assume Geelong will flick the switch and start playing good football. There is an obvious fitness problem at the club with few players able to run out a game. At this stage there is nothing we can do about that. First job is to beat WC at home. I'd say that's a 50/50 proposition. Winning a final is fanciful.

 

[Finknottle]

So had to watch the replay before I could work out what happened - it was so hard to tell at the game…

Actually the replay wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. Yes the third qtr was a "disaster" as was a 3 minute patch in the 4th (where they kicked 3 goals). Other than that our footy was ok and we just couldn't sustain the pressure for long enough.

Some of the negative posts in this forum is quite astounding. For people to now write us off as any chance of winning the flag is just hyperbole...EVERY single team in the mix (which St Kilda is NOT) has had shocking qtrs and bad games. We have to accept the even-ness of the competition is real and it doesn't take much to make a team look second rate.

Match ups are also a real thing...and St Kilda seem to always play well against the Cats - especially at Marvel Stadium.

Would I bet my house on us winning - no...Car...maybe not...But can we win it -absolutely. It is a competition which means we need to compare ourselves not against out emotional fan wish for perfection but against other teams. Brisbane were certainties 2 weeks ago and have lost two in a row...before that Carlton took over as favourites and are now struggling to make the 8...and of course Sydney were clear favourites (as were Geelong at round 7!) but look vulnerable.

So focussing on this game - a lot went right for St Kilda in the second half - but they did also play well. Marshall got on top and Wilke was amazing. I have seen O Henry been blamed for that but in the first half all of his intercept marks were against Rohan. In the second he switched on to Henry but often had the benefit of an extra number.

My view on some players

Humpries - amazing. Grows each week. Career high disposals (second half only 5 but..) at 92% efficiency

Bowes - one of his best I think for us. Certainly his best when not playing MF (only went in CBA 4 times) although DE let him down (58% given 19 of his 31 were uncontested). Still trying to work out how to use him best?

Kolo and J Henry I thought were pretty good in the backline. Guthrie was below his high standards

Mannagh another good game. A little more uncontested ratio than normal and 5 turnovers is high for him. But 21 and 2 goals I will take every week along with 4 stoppage clearances.

Dempsey to me was more impressive on the replay. 20 and a goal and a goal assist is now pretty much his average - which from the wing is elite. 85% DE and 8 score involvements (cats high) shows how key he now is to our team

Danger was also pretty good but not able to repeat the 4th qtr heroics of last week. We need him firing in finals!

I thought Stewart and Jezza were both poor despite statistics being ok. both to my eye looked fumble and just a little off - in particular when it mattered. They are stars but are going to have a "bad one" ever so often. Just can't afford any in Sept!

Miers ok but no great impact and Holmes was pretty good but did have 8 turnovers - too many for a good game

Mullin will be rewarded by the coaches - we can't underestimate the tagging role on Hill

O Henry does seem a little off of late. I am not in the camp that he is "no good" - I think he will be a very very good player forus. But it isn't quite happening for him. Despite that he was miles more impactful than Rohan which I assume is why they subbed him. If Rohan is going to stay in 23 I think it will be as sub.

I thought Neale was ok - pretty good in parts.

Duncan I don't think is a natural sub - and can get exposed in the backline. If we are going to play Bowes down back (I wouldn't but maybe he gets squeezed there) then I find it hard to see where they want to play Duncan (with bowes and Humphries in backline)

Bad loss - but not as impactful as it would have been if Brisbane won...which they didn't.

We can win 3 games (in 5 weeks including two byes) if we don't have to play them all in a row. Our "big 3" need to play 3 huge games - if they do we can win.

Whether to substitute Rohan or Ollie Henry must have gone down to the wire.

 

[crocsta]

Was Wilkie playing on Henry? Or as a spare in the backline?

 

[BORIS332]

Was Wilkie playing on Henry? Or as a spare in the backline?

I only saw bits and pieces but he was on OHenry when I was watching .