Preview Changes: R3 vs Port Adelaide

[Scorpus]

IN:
Murphy, Laird, Frampton

OUT:
Sloane (adductor), Pedlar, Murray, Soligo (medi-sub)

 

[beartoo]

Anyone want a concession ticket undercover bottom level Southern Stand, half forward/half back flank? Thirty bucks, which is roughly cost price for me. Bank transfer preferred. 1st to pm.

On SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CrowBloke]

On a long drive, say, 1700Kms over two and a half days, one has time to think about a lot of things.

My latest trip was consumed by thoughts of the woeful Crows and any changes they need to make and not just vs PA this week. They are stuck with the cattle/Coaches that they have, at least short-term.

I'm tempted to repeat what I've all ready repeated about Himmelberg who's turned into a jig saw without a battery, or lead; he just doesn't cut it.
But that would not address the three biggest problems regarding CHANGES that must be made:
1) they have NO game plan --- the Crows have got to turn away from a week-by-week "Let's try this" to "Let's DO this" and the "this" is what they did for just over a quarter against Freo ie take the game on, play-on at every opportunity and run. They fell into this Season flat on their faces with an appalling, system-less game, which Nicks tried to claim was because they were "too revved up" (see his first post-game presser).
Bullshit, Nicksy; they do not know what they are doing, and that's on you. Sending them out to "play the way we play, the Crows way" is farcical when there is no way. They are an aimless, leaderless, plan-less rabble.

2) their terrible kicking skills/ positioning/ and ball skills in general. Their best two players for disposal are Dawson and Rachele who've honed their skills elsewhere, ie not-with-the-Crows. Dawson was not born with beautiful-kicking talent. It's something that he's developed via PRACTICE and it's what the Crows need a lot of.
PRACTICE, on the basics, every session.

3) this only occurred to me on the drive and it seems like a minor point.
At clearances (especially centre bounces and ball-ups) the Crows ball-chase, two/three-sometimes-four players at a time, all close in together. It's such a mess that when one of them gets the ball, his only options are another Crow, or two, within one or two metres --- because all of them were trying to get the ball --- with all of them under pressure. They have no outside, men-running-past plan.
Worse, RoB hardly ever taps to advantage, well, the Crows' advantage.

If the ball-getter is under pressure or not (Mrouch is the worst at this), he throws the ball on the boot wildly, aimlessly, and even when they lower their eyes their kicking skills let them down repeatedly. Their 15-to-30m kicks grub off the boot, fall short or wide or land on grateful oppo chests. Hospital-handpasses or handpasses that miss their target are the order of the day. Creative kicking/handball (ie creative football) which set up the next player to be in a good position is non-existent.

So, for all the who's-IN who's-OUT speculation, it won't matter.
It will not matter.
The Crows do not have the cattle, the Coaches/game plan/structure/skills, you name it, to win games and contend for a Flag, well, not anytime soon.

Instead, they have an affable, likable Coach who wants to be the players' friend, not their Coach.
They have a Captain who's beyond his use-by date, and who selects himself (fit or not), according to Burns.
They have (well, some) talented juniors who train and play in the SANFL (and when promoted) out of their best position, to accommodate Gold Pass senior players.
As for "development", please ask if Jones/ Fogarty/ RT/ Schoenberg/ Sholl/ McHenry/ McAsey and others are being developed, and how. I can't see it. A few have actually regressed! I've omitted EH, who hasn't got it after 4 years so I doubt that he will, ever.
The problems are many, run deep, and will take several years yet to get the Crows out of the bottom-6 Wilderness.

 

[Klug]

That's the other thing about our gameplan I don't understand, everyone in front of the ball is standing in one spot with an arm in the air, with no movement or leads happening.
It's seems a weird way to move the ball forward

Yes, this is the "if we turn it over in the forward line, let's do it 20m out not 40m out strategy"!!

Good in theory, but only works if you have good contested marks in your talls, and stops the strengths of Fog in particular of having space to lead into around the 40m-50m arc.

 

[Geoffa32]

Isn’t that the Burgess philosophy though? I’m sure I read an article where he spoke about players needing to toughen up and play with niggles.

I think so, but not only if you can maintain performance.

Sloane was border line lame last weekend.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FAITH]

The old man , you know the one

The chicken man is back??

 

[crows dude]

On a long drive, say, 1700Kms over two and a half days, one has time to think about a lot of things.

My latest trip was consumed by thoughts of the woeful Crows and any changes they need to make and not just vs PA this week. They are stuck with the cattle/Coaches that they have, at least short-term.

I'm tempted to repeat what I've all ready repeated about Himmelberg who's turned into a jig saw without a battery, or lead; he just doesn't cut it.
But that would not address the three biggest problems regarding CHANGES that must be made:
1) they have NO game plan --- the Crows have got to turn away from a week-by-week "Let's try this" to "Let's DO this" and the "this" is what they did for just over a quarter against Freo ie take the game on, play-on at every opportunity and run. They fell into this Season flat on their faces with an appalling, system-less game, which Nicks tried to claim was because they were "too revved up" (see his first post-game presser).
Bullshit, Nicksy; they do not know what they are doing, and that's on you. Sending them out to "play the way we play, the Crows way" is farcical when there is no way. They are an aimless, leaderless, plan-less rabble.

2) their terrible kicking skills/ positioning/ and ball skills in general. Their best two players for disposal are Dawson and Rachele who've honed their skills elsewhere, ie not-with-the-Crows. Dawson was not born with beautiful-kicking talent. It's something that he's developed via PRACTICE and it's what the Crows need a lot of.
PRACTICE, on the basics, every session.

3) this only occurred to me on the drive and it seems like a minor point.
At clearances (especially centre bounces and ball-ups) the Crows ball-chase, two/three-sometimes-four players at a time, all close in together. It's such a mess that when one of them gets the ball, his only options are another Crow, or two, within one or two metres --- because all of them were trying to get the ball --- with all of them under pressure. They have no outside, men-running-past plan.
Worse, RoB hardly ever taps to advantage, well, the Crows' advantage.

If the ball-getter is under pressure or not (Mrouch is the worst at this), he throws the ball on the boot wildly, aimlessly, and even when they lower their eyes their kicking skills let them down repeatedly. Their 15-to-30m kicks grub off the boot, fall short or wide or land on grateful oppo chests. Hospital-handpasses or handpasses that miss their target are the order of the day. Creative kicking/handball (ie creative football) which set up the next player to be in a good position is non-existent.

So, for all the who's-IN who's-OUT speculation, it won't matter.
It will not matter.
The Crows do not have the cattle, the Coaches/game plan/structure/skills, you name it, to win games and contend for a Flag, well, not anytime soon.

Instead, they have an affable, likable Coach who wants to be the players' friend, not their Coach.
They have a Captain who's beyond his use-by date, and who selects himself (fit or not), according to Burns.
They have (well, some) talented juniors who train and play in the SANFL (and when promoted) out of their best position, to accommodate Gold Pass senior players.
As for "development", please ask if Jones/ Fogarty/ RT/ Schoenberg/ Sholl/ McHenry/ McAsey and others are being developed, and how. I can't see it. A few have actually regressed! I've omitted EH, who hasn't got it after 4 years so I doubt that he will, ever.
The problems are many, run deep, and will take several years yet to get the Crows out of the bottom-6 Wilderness.

1) they have NO game plan --- the Crows have got to turn away from a week-by-week "Let's try this" to "Let's DO this

The above quote reminds me of something Blighty said after 1997 on my crows video at home. It was about travelling and he said that the previous 6 years the crows kept on changing their program each time they went interstate. So he sat them down and said no matter what this is what we are doing. We leave the day before. We have a training run. We have a team meeting. Next day we get up have another meeting and then hop on the bus to the match.

 

[CrowBloke]

So he sat them down and said no matter what this is what we are doing.

Aaaahhh, Blighty . Little did we know back then it would be so long, so hard, to win another Flag.

I remember in the first 8 or so rounds in '97, Blighty was putting players in positions unfamiliar to them, but it was not as it is now, ie to accommodate senior players and protect their spots.
Even back then, it looked like he was striving for flexibility so that if someone went down he had a choice of players to replace him in that position.

The first half of Round One 2022 was dismal, clueless; at half time, someone must have said:
"OK, after half time DO X, Y, Z ...".
They came out, did it, and it worked.
The crappy, short-pass possession game they tried last week was never going to work, simply because their skills are not good enough. Also, while the Crows farted around with ill-directed dinky kicks, the Pies set up in defence, took or were given possession via easy turnovers and ran easily through the centre past uninterested, jogging Crows.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Aaaahhh, Blighty . Little did we know back then it would be so long, so hard, to win another Flag.

I remember in the first 8 or so rounds in '97, Blighty was putting players in positions unfamiliar to them, but it was not as it is now, ie to accommodate senior players and protect their spots.
Even back then, it looked like he was striving for flexibility so that if someone went down he had a choice of players to replace him in that position.

The first half of Round One 2022 was dismal, clueless; at half time, someone must have said:
"OK, after half time DO X, Y, Z ...".
They came out, did it, and it worked.
The crappy, short-pass possession game they tried last week was never going to work, simply because their skills are not good enough. Also, while the Crows farted around with ill-directed dinky kicks, the Pies set up in defence, took or were given possession via easy turnovers and ran easily through the centre past uninterested, jogging Crows.

This was evident last Saturday - we were getting pumped around the ground, although the scoreboard didn't really show it, but we looked second rate to anyone who was watching - however, the only notable change was to give Rachelle some time on the ball in the last quarter [and this probably only came about because Sloane was done], the coaching staff made no real change to positions or game plan. Seems to be a "just work through it" attitude and things will turn around -they would need to see some improvement this week, sadly I think we will get pumped - I will rejoice if we can turn it around but highly doubtful.

 

[Betts are off]

I'm warming to the idea of sending Murray forward to do nothing but crash packs, and bringing Fish in to get him another taste as a defender at the AFL level.

And by 'warming to the idea', I may just be 'tired of waiting for Fish to be ready'.

 

[baldandbroke]

Yep, he played last week for the Dogs

 

[FR0GGY]

View attachment 1358761

To be fair it’s marginally easier to crack the crows side in the last two years.

 

[beartoo]

I'd be happy for him. He's not right for us just now because he simply cannot win his own ball.
Fog might end up a nice piece in a mature and functional forward line.
Would you trade him for a second rounder?

Fog wouldn't get a game in a mature and functional forward line. Not AFL standard and will not be.

 

[baldandbroke]

To be fair it’s marginally easier to crack the crows side in the last two years.

Yeah but we have given him a fair go ... not like we have somehow stuffed him because he is back in the 2's.

I like JUH a lot. Think he will be an awesome player, but this idea that we are useless and can't even get a #2 draft pick up and running is a bit lame imo.

 

[FR0GGY]

Yeah but we have given him a fair go ... not like we have somehow stuffed him because he is back in the 2's.

I like JUH a lot. Think he will be an awesome player, but this idea that we are useless and can't even get a #2 draft pick up and running is a bit lame imo.

Fair enough, I think we stuffed fog around early on though, trying him midfield and back.

 

[Mutineer]

Fair enough, I think we stuffed fog around early on though, trying him midfield and back.

You are aware Darcy played quite a bit of midfield at junior level and certainly at U18's level.

If you recall there was a lot of talk leading into his drafting as to what was going to be his best position at AFL level and certainly highlighted by Cal Twomey.

In view of players like Cripps etc trying him in the midfield or even down back when he wasn't setting the World on fire at either AFL or SANFL level was worth a shot.

Darcy's big problem he doesn't consistently win enough ball wherever he plays.

 

[baldandbroke]

You are aware Darcy played quite a bit of midfield at junior level and certainly at U18's level.

If you recall there was a lot of talk leading into his drafting as to what was going to be his best position at AFL level and certainly highlighted by Cal Twomey.

In view of players like Cripps etc trying him in the midfield or even down back when he wasn't setting the World on fire at either AFL or SANFL level was worth a shot.

I'm still holding onto my hope that Fog will break-out ... He has so many attributes I love in a footballer. Really hopeful that Burgess helps him understand how to harness his strengths and reduce his deficiencies.

 

[FR0GGY]

You are aware Darcy played quite a bit of midfield at junior level and certainly at U18's level.

If you recall there was a lot of talk leading into his drafting as to what was going to be his best position at AFL level and certainly highlighted by Cal Twomey.

In view of players like Cripps etc trying him in the midfield or even down back when he wasn't setting the World on fire at either AFL or SANFL level was worth a shot.

Darcy's big problem he doesn't consistently win enough ball wherever he plays.

It’s a big change being tried as a key forward then being thrown in the midfield and back line as a young bloke.
Not many players have that done to them.

 

[Mutineer]

I'm still holding onto my hope that Fog will break-out ... He has so many attributes I love in a footballer. Really hopeful that Burgess helps him understand how to harness his strengths and reduce his deficiencies.

Footy I.Q IMO is the area that Darcy seems to be lacking and I'm not sure how you improve that, I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that he has ample talent but sometimes that's not enough. I also don't think too many have written him off just yet but he does need to start performing more consistently pretty soon.

Unlike some on this board I don't think it's unfair to expect more progress from a high draft pick into his 5th AFL season.

 

[baldandbroke]

It’s a big change being tried as a key forward then being thrown in the midfield and back line as a young bloke.
Not many players have that done to them.

I think some of the unsuredness we all had with where is his best spot - probably didn't help Fog either. Not making excuses - he is hitting that point where the rubber needs to hit the road.

Our poor showing over his formative years cannot be helping though :-( He isn't that far behind other players of his ilk (as we have discussed) that we need to cut him and get value from a trade etc...

Footy I.Q IMO is the area that Darcy seems to be lacking and I'm not sure how you improve that, I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that he has ample talent but sometimes that not enough. I also don't think too many have written him off just yet but he does need to start performing more consistently pretty soon.

Unlike some on this board I don't think it's unfair to expect more progress from a high draft pick into his 5th AFL season.

I think his Footy IQ is great. It feels like he doesn't do very well with trying to fit in his style and instincts to an AFL style hard structure.

Wish we could just let him go and play ... same thing I thought with Chayce Jones. If you saw him in the flesh as a junior, you'd be shocked what he has become. (Bicks I reckon you probably did!)

Maybe Nicks is not the right guy for that type of player?

 

[GROTTO]

Apologies if posted earlier, are the Crows teams going to be released tonight?

 

[WheresGroomgone]

I think some of the unsuredness we all had with where is his best spot - probably didn't help Fog either. Not making excuses - he is hitting that point where the rubber needs to hit the road.

Our poor showing over his formative years cannot be helping though :-( He isn't that far behind other players of his ilk (as we have discussed) that we need to cut him and get value from a trade etc...


I think his Footy IQ is great. It feels like he doesn't do very well with trying to fit in his style and instincts to an AFL style hard structure.

Wish we could just let him go and play ... same thing I thought with Chayce Jones. If you saw him in the flesh as a junior, you'd be shocked what he has become. (Bicks I reckon you probably did!)

Maybe Nicks is not the right guy for that type of player?

I agree in regards to Fog's footy IQ as from his limited possessions probably 95% of them are advantageous to us [even if it is only 6-7 possies or a couple of knock ons} he made some frustrated mistakes on Saturday but normally whenever he has the ball its a win for us - if only he could get more!! that's the whole issue.

 

[GROTTO]

To be fair it’s marginally easier to crack the crows side in the last two years.

TT has also literally won us a game in clutch moments on his own ........also lost a game for us too.

I can forgive for that errant kick against Freo, because with maturity, he will learn to always go down the boundary line and never the corridor in that situation.

Winning a game for us against the Saints last year, you either have it or you dont. You cant teach that.

 

[PoholkMe10]

Apologies if posted earlier, are the Crows teams going to be released tonight?

No, Thursday teams released wednesday, everything else thursday (sunday teams extended bench till friday).

 

[GameofSloanes]

On a long drive, say, 1700Kms over two and a half days, one has time to think about a lot of things.

My latest trip was consumed by thoughts of the woeful Crows and any changes they need to make and not just vs PA this week. They are stuck with the cattle/Coaches that they have, at least short-term.

I'm tempted to repeat what I've all ready repeated about Himmelberg who's turned into a jig saw without a battery, or lead; he just doesn't cut it.
But that would not address the three biggest problems regarding CHANGES that must be made:
1) they have NO game plan --- the Crows have got to turn away from a week-by-week "Let's try this" to "Let's DO this" and the "this" is what they did for just over a quarter against Freo ie take the game on, play-on at every opportunity and run. They fell into this Season flat on their faces with an appalling, system-less game, which Nicks tried to claim was because they were "too revved up" (see his first post-game presser).
Bullshit, Nicksy; they do not know what they are doing, and that's on you. Sending them out to "play the way we play, the Crows way" is farcical when there is no way. They are an aimless, leaderless, plan-less rabble.

2) their terrible kicking skills/ positioning/ and ball skills in general. Their best two players for disposal are Dawson and Rachele who've honed their skills elsewhere, ie not-with-the-Crows. Dawson was not born with beautiful-kicking talent. It's something that he's developed via PRACTICE and it's what the Crows need a lot of.
PRACTICE, on the basics, every session.

3) this only occurred to me on the drive and it seems like a minor point.
At clearances (especially centre bounces and ball-ups) the Crows ball-chase, two/three-sometimes-four players at a time, all close in together. It's such a mess that when one of them gets the ball, his only options are another Crow, or two, within one or two metres --- because all of them were trying to get the ball --- with all of them under pressure. They have no outside, men-running-past plan.
Worse, RoB hardly ever taps to advantage, well, the Crows' advantage.

If the ball-getter is under pressure or not (Mrouch is the worst at this), he throws the ball on the boot wildly, aimlessly, and even when they lower their eyes their kicking skills let them down repeatedly. Their 15-to-30m kicks grub off the boot, fall short or wide or land on grateful oppo chests. Hospital-handpasses or handpasses that miss their target are the order of the day. Creative kicking/handball (ie creative football) which set up the next player to be in a good position is non-existent.

So, for all the who's-IN who's-OUT speculation, it won't matter.
It will not matter.
The Crows do not have the cattle, the Coaches/game plan/structure/skills, you name it, to win games and contend for a Flag, well, not anytime soon.

Instead, they have an affable, likable Coach who wants to be the players' friend, not their Coach.
They have a Captain who's beyond his use-by date, and who selects himself (fit or not), according to Burns.
They have (well, some) talented juniors who train and play in the SANFL (and when promoted) out of their best position, to accommodate Gold Pass senior players.
As for "development", please ask if Jones/ Fogarty/ RT/ Schoenberg/ Sholl/ McHenry/ McAsey and others are being developed, and how. I can't see it. A few have actually regressed! I've omitted EH, who hasn't got it after 4 years so I doubt that he will, ever.
The problems are many, run deep, and will take several years yet to get the Crows out of the bottom-6 Wilderness.

Excellent post.

Regarding 1), I think we were developing a good game plan in 2020/first half of 2021. It wasn't consistent, ie we'd do it successfully for 1-3 quarters out of 4, only once or twice for a whole game, but you could see them trying to bring the ball through the corridor, speed of ball movement, fast entries. When it worked it looked great. Its also how we played in the 3rd qtr vs freo.

BUT.... at some point last year, we stopped trying to play that way regularly. I have no idea why, maybe because they thought that our poor skills you mention in 2) was getting us caught out on the rebound too often. I would argue that the way we play now is WORSE with poor skills however, and that by establishing a fast moving game plan, you just need to work on the skills and you then have a system that will work once you have the cattle.

Regarding 3), this has been a problem for a few years, and imo either it is senior players regressing into things they were taught in the campo era, OR VB teaching them to do that because that's what he was taught when he was playing. Personally think it is the regression, as WCE didn't play that way when VB was there.

Somehow we need to address all of your points, else we are going nowhere in the short term.

 

[Cap]

I think some of the unsuredness we all had with where is his best spot - probably didn't help Fog either. Not making excuses - he is hitting that point where the rubber needs to hit the road.

Our poor showing over his formative years cannot be helping though :-( He isn't that far behind other players of his ilk (as we have discussed) that we need to cut him and get value from a trade etc...


I think his Footy IQ is great. It feels like he doesn't do very well with trying to fit in his style and instincts to an AFL style hard structure.

Wish we could just let him go and play ... same thing I thought with Chayce Jones. If you saw him in the flesh as a junior, you'd be shocked what he has become. (Bicks I reckon you probably did!)

Maybe Nicks is not the right guy for that type of player?

Do you have any thoughts into what has happened to Chayce?