Preview Changes Vs Golden Toast

[Oliver G]

“He and our whole group understands now we’re in a period of evolution again …the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

So you select a side without Macrae and Daniel and the same thing still happens, so maybe then the issue isn't with demoting a 3x All-Australian and another All-Australian but actually with consistently selecting below-average players or the fact that nothing has seemingly changed in our playing style since 2021, which directly reflects on the quality of the coaching.

There are seemingly two major issues over the past few years that almost all Bulldogs supporters get extremely frustrated with, the first is the continued selection of players like Baker, McNeil and Vandermeer over the likes of Bendendo, Clarke and Cleary who have actually shown decent form. This isn't a new problem, we've seen it constantly over the years with Gardner, Hannan and McComb, The second being our total lack of change in regards to defending forward half turnovers and conceding streaks of goals. Any other team would've fixed that up over one pre-season and here we are three seasons later with the exact same problem.

So we've now reached the phase of just blatant hypocritical lies, first with fitness and strength and now selection. Who is he trying to fool?

Listen for the bell Bevo, it tolls for thee

 

[dergert]

View attachment 1935656

Damo been reading BigFooty, lol

To be fair- I would be concerned if a head coach did listen to these "experts".

 

[Dogs Rule]

So you were demanding these players be selected for round 1? Or is it only now in hindsight the coaches should have played them and at the time you were ok they didn’t?

McNeil selection last week was warranted. He’s been good in pre season games so so deserved his spot.

VDM the only one I think should be questioned, but again, the coaches have decided the types they wanted in and went down that path. Saying again though, I think he misses that game if O’Driscoll was ready.

The idea of selection integrity at our club has been non existent for years, so why start now?

FWIW, if I was in charge McNeil and Vandermeer wouldn't have been on the list for 2024.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Very happy with Darcy being named. We need to get games into him especially if English ends up leaving. Future match winner.


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[lachy]

Very happy with Darcy being named. We need to get games into him especially if English ends up leaving. Future match winner.


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I would say he deserves to be getting a game with current exposed form compared to the incumbent

 

[hatescaptcha]

I would say he deserves to be getting a game with current exposed form compared to the incumbent

Absolutely deserving, been in good form across pre-season.

Lobb is taking us no where.


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[threenewpadlocks]

“He and our whole group understands now we’re in a period of evolution again …the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

So you select a side without Macrae and Daniel and the same thing still happens, so maybe then the issue isn't with demoting a 3x All-Australian and another All-Australian but actually with consistently selecting below-average players or the fact that nothing has seemingly changed in our playing style since 2021, which directly reflects on the quality of the coaching.

Do be fair to Bevo, the bolded quote actually justifies the Macrae and Daniel selections, not contradicts them. We didn't make finals last year and people wanted change. We got change. Of course some of the same players played poorly at the past, but that didn't mean it wasn't a highly changed team from times of last year. People wanted players like Gardner and Keath out of the team last year (a lot), and they didn't play here, just as a very quick example.

 

[Oliver G]

Do be fair to Bevo, the bolded quote actually justifies the Macrae and Daniel selections, not contradicts them. We didn't make finals last year and people wanted change. We got change. Of course some of the same players played poorly at the past, but that didn't mean it wasn't a highly changed team from times of last year. People wanted players like Gardner and Keath out of the team last year (a lot), and they didn't play here, just as a very quick example.

We got change in selection only from certain point of view though. Bont, Libba and Treloar dominated the CBAs last week as they did last year and we still selected below average players in McNeil and Vandermeer as we always do.

We lost the game in the same way we have lost the majority of games over the last few years in conceding large streaks of goals and letting the opposition chip it around.

I don’t care if it’s only 1 game, we were told that things would be different and I left the MCG on Sunday hitting myself on the head for actually thinking there would be change.

 

[Dog 36]

We got change in selection only from certain point of view though. Bont, Libba and Treloar dominated the CBAs last week as they did last year and we still selected below average players in McNeil and Vandermeer as we always do.

We lost the game in the same way we have lost the majority of games over the last few years in conceding large streaks of goals and letting the opposition chip it around.

I don’t care if it’s only 1 game, we were told that things would be different and I left the MCG on Sunday hitting myself on the head for actually thinking there would be change.

I was a happier person in the off season and pre season that is something I know for sure.

 

[Planet Dogs]

Our pressure/intensity last week was pathetic.

I was interested in Ross Wilson's comment questioning the concept of being able to 'flick the switch' if you haven't done the work in preseason.

Sunday is an absolute acid test. If we fail again with intensity it will be an absolute indictment on Beveridge.

BTW. The Ross Wilson quote above came from the album Eagle Rock (Ross Lyon plagiarised from the lyrics).

 

[adogsfan5]

Some more comments this week from those in the media claiming it MAY take some time for us to gel and get used to the new “game style” and new coaches. That’s all I’m hanging my hat on at the moment.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Do be fair to Bevo, the bolded quote actually justifies the Macrae and Daniel selections, not contradicts them. We didn't make finals last year and people wanted change. We got change. Of course some of the same players played poorly at the past, but that didn't mean it wasn't a highly changed team from times of last year. People wanted players like Gardner and Keath out of the team last year (a lot), and they didn't play here, just as a very quick example.

The big change that was needed is how the team plays and that didn’t change at all. Having players who aren’t up to it instead of players who are is just going to exacerbate the issue.


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[Golden_6]

Some more comments this week from those in the media claiming it MAY take some time for us to gel and get used to the new “game style” and new coaches. That’s all I’m hanging my hat on at the moment.

What new game style? I literally saw nothing on Sunday to suggest anything had changed at all. It was a carbon copy of so many different games we've seen before.

Wishful thinking.

 

[Anja_Nees]

To the positives, it’s great that Darcy comes in having belted the door down for a spot.

Hope he kills it.

 

[Doggies7]

Witts out for GC, Ned Moyle in

 

[Libbaaaa]

Witts out for GC, Ned Moyle in

Wouldn't be surprised if they ruck Casbault as well, guess we'll soon see.

 

[Mofra]

Witts out for GC, Ned Moyle in

Dress rehearsal. He's showed really good VFL form but not quite put it together in the AFL as yet.

Given they took Ethan Read, I assume he's gettable at the end of the year.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Some more comments this week from those in the media claiming it MAY take some time for us to gel and get used to the new “game style” and new coaches. That’s all I’m hanging my hat on at the moment.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The problem isn't with a mc that chose to change things up and try to bring some much need speed into the side. Watch any of the top sides and you will see the reasoning behind their changes. The problem is that many of the players on the fringes of the side have such a low ceiling talent wise that the changes ultimately did more harm than good. Im not sure that throwing even more untried talent will tun things around given most aren't even close to debuting on what exposed form we've seen from them over the summer.

This is why McNeil was always a walk up start for the first game. He'd a least shown an ability to hit the scoreboard. It's a shame that didn't translate to the first game, but its only with hindsight that we can mark him down and scapegoat him as severely as we have.

Our real problem is with a coach and or playing group that has for 3 years or more reverted to its safe place of a slow indirect play whenever their opponent brings the heat and takes the initiative away from us.

Beveridge certainly deserves the avalanche of criticism that he's had in here this week. But so does a playing group that is so timid that it's little wonder they played the members boundary of the MCG as much as they did last week. Lest they get frightened by their own shadows in the direct sunlight.

Anyways...It's new round and we'll see what the coach and his players are really made of. Another insipid display like last week and we might as well call it a season. This playing group couldn't come back from that.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

“He and our whole group understands now we’re in a period of evolution again …the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

So you select a side without Macrae and Daniel and the same thing still happens, so maybe then the issue isn't with demoting a 3x All-Australian and another All-Australian but actually with consistently selecting below-average players or the fact that nothing has seemingly changed in our playing style since 2021, which directly reflects on the quality of the coaching.

There are seemingly two major issues over the past few years that almost all Bulldogs supporters get extremely frustrated with, the first is the continued selection of players like Baker, McNeil and Vandermeer over the likes of Bendendo, Clarke and Cleary who have actually shown decent form. This isn't a new problem, we've seen it constantly over the years with Gardner, Hannan and McComb, The second being our total lack of change in regards to defending forward half turnovers and conceding streaks of goals. Any other team would've fixed that up over one pre-season and here we are three seasons later with the exact same problem.

So we've now reached the phase of just blatant hypocritical lies, first with fitness and strength and now selection. Who is he trying to fool?

Listen for the bell Bevo, it tolls for thee

Surely he meant devolution?

 

[Proffessor]

I'm not sure that's comparing apples with apples.

VDM and McNeil have had ample opportunity to establish that they're capable AFL-level players, and have not. They remain prone to bad turnovers, are poor tacklers, don't make great decisions and when they get a chance at goal are more likely than not to miss.

Gallagher and Sanders are young players who haven't had any opportunity yet. Bramble's game on the weekend might have been better than any AFL game either of VDM and McNeil have played - and he's played one game for the dogs. Coffield has a decent performance history at the Saints and his problem is getting on the park, and he's also only played one game for us - jury's out but he probably deserves the opportunity to play a couple of games in our side. Buku hasn't had half the opportunity that others have had, and when he has done he's been thrown forward and even in one maddening episode in the ruck against Geelong when the game was on the line - and now it seems he's expected to play as a second KPD, yet another example of him not being set up to succeed. Poulter and Baker I'm not so sure about and if they were picked then they may also be debated strongly on here, although Poulter at least showed some signs last year.

For many, it's baffling that players like VDM and McNeil continue to get picked over either young players who have potential and could be AFL players, or players that have more runs on the board at the level. As others have said, it's not about those decisions in a vacuum, it's that it's a consistent pattern with team selection in recent years with VFL players being given extended runs in the AFL side despite the fact they are plainly not up to it.

Personally, with VDM in particular, I haven't seen many worse games than the last two I've seen him play in person - WC and Melbourne. Maybe he's completely short of confidence and down on himself, and if so that's a shame, but with Daniel sitting on the pine and Macrae not even in the team it just seems ludicrous. Maybe that's not a fair comparison as the position VDM is playing is one that the MC wouldn't pick Daniel or Macrae in, but personally I'd rather see the ball in their hands no matter where they were on the ground.

Overall, it is probably unfair that VDM and McNeil are copping it like this. But they're likely just lightning rods for the general level of dismay when it comes to team selection.

I think you are missing my point. I wasn’t trying to compare those players so much as catergorise them as being similar.

My point being that our main problem is that we have too many unproven players in the team at one time. Who can’t be relied upon to deliver the same output as a proven senior player.

I think there is too much focus on which ones might have the most potential and should therefore be given more chances.

I don’t think which ones get given a chance in this particular game is as important as reducing the overall quotient of players in this category.

Let’s say that we might get an average of about 1/2 the output of a good senior player from each of them.
Some might do better than expected and give us 0.7 or even higher, others worse, say 0.3 or lower.

But if we expect them to average out around 0.5 as a group, 6-8 players in that group would mean you are effectively 3-4 players worth of output down.

We have some great and very consistent top end players, but there is a limit to the amount of slack they can be expected to pick up.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Witts out for GC, Ned Moyle in

That means the only wits performing will be the F...wits in the dogs coaches box.

 

[JTCWBFC]

“We went from when the number one pressure side in that Community Series to being 17th. That just tells you that we weren't good enough around the core aspect of putting pressure on the opposition and dealing with it ourselves. We'll get that right and closer to where we need it to be."

https://membership.westernbulldogs.com.au/
Is this a result of our pressure being really good in the praccy game or everyone else's was down because it was a practice game?

 

[Doggies7]

Moyle is still going to be tough in the hitouts for English being a very solid / strong lump of a ruck, but around the ground English should kill him. Unless he has seriously improved his tank, that's been his main issue so far and he won't be able to go with Tim contest to contest.

I imagine Hardwick might try and have a more mobile tall like Lukosius go with English after the initial hitout.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

I think Bevo would love for the final team for Sunday announced Sunday. That way he can hide his selection plunders from bulldogs bigfooty posters for another 2 days.