List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• AFL retirements and delistings

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

• Tom Barrass traded to Hawthorn
  • In: F1, F2, F3 (HAW)
  • Out: Barrass, F4

• Liam Baker and Matt Owies join West Coast in Pick 3 trade
  • In: Baker, Owies, 12, 73
  • Out: 3, 63, 68

• Jack Darling traded to North Melbourne for Pick 67

• Jack Graham joins West Coast as UFA

• Jake Waterman re-signs with West Coast until at least 2029

• Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones
  31

  Jamaine Jones

  Age

  26

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  80kg

  Pos.

  D/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  9.0

  2star

  K

  4.8

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  3star

  M

  2.1

  2star

  T

  3.8

  5star

  MG

  159.6

  3star

  D

  10.5

  3star

  K

  6.5

  3star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  2.5

  3star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  MG

  196.5

  3star

  D

  9.0

  3star

  K

  4.2

  2star

  HB

  4.8

  4star

  M

  2.4

  3star

  T

  4.2

  5star

  MG

  166.0

  3star

  and Jordyn Baker delisted

• Archer Reid (2027), Loch Rawlinson (2025), and Coen Livingstone (2025) sign extensions

 

[Rowan18]

Geez, I don't see much difference on where both team lists are at.

Difference is Richmond traded out some of their mid aged players for picks when they could, rather than letting players age out and retire.

McGovern (32), Gaff (32), Cripps (32), Yeo (31), Kelly (30), Sheed (29).

West Coast have two good key forwards entering their prime years, other than that, there's very little difference between where both lists are at, apart from obviously Harley Reid, and Richmonds plethora of draft picks in this years draft.

You can't ignore all the young players we've drafted from 2021 until now. Plenty of them have shown a lot and will develop into solid AFl players at a minimum: Edwards, Hough, J Williams, Maric, Ginbey, Long, Hutchinson, Dewar

Then there's a bunch who have shown glimpses but had bad luck with injury: Hewett, Bazzo, Hall, A Reid.

That's quite a lot of young players that have come through the draft. Richmond is coming from a long way back.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Gibcus is pure Milli Vanilli. However is pretty solid as a stopper. But yet as they are in yr 1 in their rebuild they will be miles ahead of where we were at the same point.
It's nice to have faith but we have also cocked it up big time so far. Read at #1 was a no brainer but then what?

Our next most promising player- Ginbey is no Dangerfield, hell we will be lucky if he even end up as a midfielder at this point.
Our team is essentially a bunch of Scott Selwoods & Patty McGinnitys but with pea hearts.

True enough but on the flip side we didn't spend as long as the Hawks or Fremantle who spent years propping up their lists. I'd let a second coach look over the players for making final judgements on some maligned individuals.

I'd still prefer their situation with a massive draft coming up, and 3 flags instead of just 1 lol.

We absolutely should have been moving on players in 2021 as soon as we missed the finals and list cohesion fell away. But the problems that developed in the list originate before that and a lot of that is bad luck because some of the stuff we did with Cripps, Redden, Jetta, Yeo in the years prior was pure gold.

Our problems today originate in the 2016-2019 drafts even though we found some great players that contributed to premiership success.

 

[briztoon]

Richmond have no midfield. Taranto is an honest trier and Hopper is garbage, if not permanently injured. Prestia is hamstring injury city.

At least we have Reid, Yeo and Kelly, as well as bringing in some decent mature agers.

Why has Yeo missed so much footy over the last few years?

By many of your own members here, Kelly is a down hill skier and goes missing when asked to do the hard yards.

I don’t rate those mature agers.

Richmond tried to trade away Jack Graham twice when he was out of contract over the years, and couldn’t find any takers. He’s worse than Hopper, and much slower.

And I’ve said enough on here that I don’t rate Baker much either, certainly not as a mid.

Not going to be world-beaters by any stretch but unless Richmond pick up a Daicos/Sheezel in this draft, they are getting pumped on repeat. This draft supposedly has neither and a few around these parts are of the opinion that whoever goes #1 probably wouldn't go top 5 last year. Certainly a very good even draft to fill your boots up on and Richmond may absolutely smash it out of the park but currently, their draft picks are a completely unknown factor. They could do very well, they could completely tank with no mature support around them, like so many clubs before.

Again, you’re putting all your chips in on Reid, because he’s the only difference between where you and Richmond are, now.

And they’re going to have twice as many kids as you after this draft.

And then they have two more drafts to find their Reid/Ashcroft/Daicos.

Also, Richmond didn't want to trade those players, they all either had contracts, or long term offers for them. Their hand was forced.

Richmond 100% wanted to trade those players. Definitely Baker and Bolton. Plenty of reporting around that. May have wanted to keep Rioli.

The only thing Richmond have to look forward to are draft picks, because their current 2-4 year players are relatively mediocre, based on what they've shown.

Excluding Reid, their kids have performed pretty much the same as yours.

And excluding Reid, draft picks are all you have to look forward too.

They're relying on Balta to probably be KPD, as well as Gibcus, who's been injury-riddled for most of his career. Lynch is their only proven KPF currently, and he's on his last legs.

Lynch = McGovern.

Balta = Waterman.

No notable KPFs coming through. LeFau was looking reasonable until his ACL but unless they land a FA next year, they're going to be very barren on having proven goal-kickers.

Yeah I pretty much have said this already.

Expect Richmond to draft one or two KPF’s this draft.

WCE certainly have a dearth of young talent in the midfield, for sure. But at the very least, our veterans will sill be around at least 3 years to help develop them and are significantly better than what Richmond have on hand currently.

While I don’t believe Taranto & Hopper are great, they’re going to be around longer than Yeo & Kelly and aren’t at risk of dropping off the cliff over the next 3 years.

Whilst I certainly would've preferred to have more picks in this draft, at the very least there's some good WA talent coming through next year and the top few picks are projecting far better than this year's crop. Obviously the latter first round will be heavily compromised and the depth isn't there but WEC at least have the opportunity to make a strong play for Warner, as well as bringing in some good local talent, unlike this year.

You’re projecting Richmond to be worse than you, so they probably have access to the number one kid next year.

Do they get their gun player, of a similar caliber as Reid next year?

I’m cognisant of West Coast’s kids in next year’s draft. At this stage I view the best of them as probably at about the same quality as Richmond’s picks in the 20’s of this draft. And West Coast have the picks in next year’s draft to get them. Good list planning there.

 

[WAFClatfd]

Jeez he’s got some dash doesn’t he. Lacks composure and ball winning but which I just doing think suits us rn

His lack of composure caused him to turn it over a few times, in the highlights.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

‘Obviously not 100% across your list.’

‘…. but after this draft, Richmond will be further along in their rebuild than West Coast.’

Not really across your list, but Richmond’s is better. That’s just classic briztoon

Actually the balance of their list is even more fkd up than ours. Getting it all done in one draft isn’t without its own pitfalls with regards to staying shitter performance wise for longer, and possible retention issues for the ones that develop early relative to the others and want to chase some success if it looks like a longer road than anticipated

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Was flicking through that 'Gettable' Youtube show with Cal Twomey and the other bloke and they were talking about the AFL adding future picks next year two years in advance and at toward the end of the show Cal said 'Should Harley Reid want to come back to Victoria Essendon have four picks available' strap in, boys. It's already begun.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

What's the opposite of copium?

Pinning everything that isn't exactly perfect at the Eagles right now on the reason why we've already lost Harley Reid is whatever that word is.

Maybe bed-wetting?

Ironically, I feel like Baker and Graham coming over might be something that helps keeps Harely with us.

 

[kerrazy]

Why has Yeo missed so much footy over the last few years?

By many of your own members here, Kelly is a down hill skier and goes missing when asked to do the hard yards.

I don’t rate those mature agers.

Richmond tried to trade away Jack Graham twice when he was out of contract over the years, and couldn’t find any takers. He’s worse than Hopper, and much slower.

And I’ve said enough on here that I don’t rate Baker much either, certainly not as a mid.



Again, you’re putting all your chips in on Reid, because he’s the only difference between where you and Richmond are, now.

And they’re going to have twice as many kids as you after this draft.

And then they have two more drafts to find their Reid/Ashcroft/Daicos.

Richmond 100% wanted to trade those players. Definitely Baker and Bolton. Plenty of reporting around that. May have wanted to keep Rioli.

Excluding Reid, their kids have performed pretty much the same as yours.

And excluding Reid, draft picks are all you have to look forward too.

Lynch = McGovern.

Balta = Waterman.

Yeah I pretty much have said this already.

Expect Richmond to draft one or two KPF’s this draft.

While I don’t believe Taranto & Hopper are great, they’re going to be around longer than Yeo & Kelly and aren’t at risk of dropping off the cliff over the next 3 years.

You’re projecting Richmond to be worse than you, so they probably have access to the number one kid next year.

Do they get their gun player, of a similar caliber as Reid next year?

I’m cognisant of West Coast’s kids in next year’s draft. At this stage I view the best of them as probably at about the same quality as Richmond’s picks in the 20’s of this draft. And West Coast have the picks in next year’s draft to get them. Good list planning there.

Do you have Ligma?

 

[Obeanie1]

Bo Allen would be considered at pick 12

Hamish Davis maybe around the mark with 26

Whether they’re the best two options at those points others will know better than me

Stop it.

I was just over checking out the BF Phantom All too early addition just to see who were picked around 15.

Bo Allen was 14 taken by Essendon

Hamish Davies 17 taken by Carlton

Other notable types.

Lindsay at 11
Moreas 12 and seems to now be sliding out to 30.

 

[BartBart]

I really hope we don't trade our futures two years ahead. Way too difficult to get a read on where we will sit. Couple of stars will hang em up during that period, we will have only played one year under Mini and the game plan could really click after that, or he could get the ass and we're back to square one

It'll probably happen in the drafts when Tassie come in. Those that have inside info which year(s) that they compromise the draft will be able to do it sneakily before clubs realise it.

Hope the AFL are clear which drafts it does effect before those picks can be traded in/out.

 

[BartBart]

This is all I could find on it

EXPLAINER: All you need to know about the Trade Period

Here's everything you need to know about the Trade Period, Free Agency and more

www.afl.com.au

They said up to Nov 8 (on Trade Radio) and then again on draft night.

 

[BartBart]

After being depressed since the pick 3 trade and melting hard, i'm finally starting to feel a bit more optimistic and starting to see the strategy the club is using to rebuild and win flags.

I do see similarities particularly with how Collingwood rebuilt and won a flag after finishing in the bottom 3, then hiring McRae and drafting Daicos, comparatively we drafted Harley and hired McQualter.

Collingwood very much embraced a moneyball approach to draft and trade and it feels like we're doing similar by bringing in Baker, Owies and Graham whilst backing ourselves in with pick 12 and potentially another pick if we trade back in.

We're also favourites to land Warner and Starcevich next year, and we will improve us significantly if we manage to land both of them.

One of the biggest positives i see in landing Baker, Graham and Owies is that they are all very physically strong players that won't shirk a contest and will give 110% every game. I know a lot of people aren't happy with the line "we recruited just as much for the off-field traits" but the off-field stuff is culture defining and has a big influence on and off the field and is often the back bone for building a premiership team.

Richmond and Hawthorn we're both very physically imposing teams and the most successful teams of the modern era because there brand and players stood up in finals.

In general now we are very physically imposing team and think this will hold us in very good stead going forward

The trade period undoubtedly could of been handled better, but i think there are some positives to be taken out of it and i'm still bullish going forward as to what the club can achieve.

The Moneyball tactics is what got us in some of this trouble.

We went all out on tall forwards and HB Flankers and thought mids are dime a dozen and put much less focus on them thinking we can make do somehow.

 

[bzparkes]

Why has Yeo missed so much footy over the last few years?

Grounds, which after the Qatar visit he appears over.

By many of your own members here, Kelly is a down hill skier and goes missing when asked to do the hard yards.

Graham will allow him to play HFF and rotate. He's simply not the main main but wiht a fair bit of freedom, he should be able to get off the leash.

Inside mid is not his forte.

I don’t rate those mature agers.

Most here don't either but the coach clearly does and he coached them during 2 premiership years. Wait and see on that one.

Richmond tried to trade away Jack Graham twice when he was out of contract over the years, and couldn’t find any takers. He’s worse than Hopper, and much slower.

Wrong. He shopped himself around. They even had a 4 year offer on the table for him this year. If they weren't serious about keeping him, they'd have offered 1 year just to tick over the compo.

And I’ve said enough on here that I don’t rate Baker much either, certainly not as a mid.

He won't be playing as a mid and he'll be a massive upgrade on Witherden.

Again, you’re putting all your chips in on Reid, because he’s the only difference between where you and Richmond are, now.

Not really. Richmond are putrid. Hewett showed enough in his first year that there's good potential there for him to be a midfield buddy for Reid. Big 'if' over his foot obviously though.

And they’re going to have twice as many kids as you after this draft.

And? Doesn't really mean shit when every club that followed the same path before them failed massively. It may be different this time however that would be going against history to do so.

As much as I'd like top end picks, people massively overrate potential over performance in the footy industry. Every single one of those picks could bust for all we know. I'm sure they won't but high picks don't = automatic gun. Every draft is littered with failures in the top 10, let alone top 5.

And then they have two more drafts to find their Reid/Ashcroft/Daicos.

Sure, so we do we. I can't see us getting out of the bottom 4 before Tassie enters but North should.

Richmond 100% wanted to trade those players. Definitely Baker and Bolton. Plenty of reporting around that. May have wanted to keep Rioli.

The president's parting shot at the B&F would suggest otherwise, as would the long-term contract offers to Baker and Graham.

They may have been happy to let a couple of them go, but not all.

Excluding Reid, their kids have performed pretty much the same as yours.

Sure but now thet lack the hard bodies around them to help them develop and will be thrust into main roles. Some may step up, some may fall by the wayside completely. Putting draftees into lead roles isn't the 'fast-track' supporters believe it to be.

And excluding Reid, draft picks are all you have to look forward too.

I'm looking far more forward to how our new development setup can get the best out of what we currently have on the list. Who knows, with a new gameplan, players not showing much may finally shine? It's a bit disingenuous to suggest draft picks are the only thing. our upcoming picks could all bust whilst players on the list suddenly go apeshit. Who knows?

Lynch = McGovern.

Gov just own AA last year and is in the best condition he's ever been in. Lynch can't even get on the park.

Not even close.

Balta = Waterman.

Balta came 11th in their BnF, Watman made AA.

Not even close.

Yeah I pretty much have said this already.

Expect Richmond to draft one or two KPF’s this draft.

Yes, who we likely won't see anything from at least for 4 years. Very different entering the upcoming Richmond setup to, say, Logan Morris entering Brisbane's.

While I don’t believe Taranto & Hopper are great, they’re going to be around longer than Yeo & Kelly and aren’t at risk of dropping off the cliff over the next 3 years.

Taranto's decent but a ball butcher and more of a third string mid.

Hopper can't even stay on the park for 5 minutes and is a genuine B- grader.

Pretty hard for those 2 to fall off the cliff when they never got there to begin with.

You’re projecting Richmond to be worse than you, so they probably have access to the number one kid next year.

Do they get their gun player, of a similar caliber as Reid next year?

They might. They could get him and fail to develop, or he could be the next Dustin Martin.

Who knows? until it happens, it's a complete non-factor in how they project to improve after next year.

I’m cognisant of West Coast’s kids in next year’s draft. At this stage I view the best of them as probably at about the same quality as Richmond’s picks in the 20’s of this draft. And West Coast have the picks in next year’s draft to get them. Good list planning there.

Well, provided they don't go all in on Warner, they should be able to strike a balance between drafting those kids and getting Warner as well.

That's even if he decides to leave to begin with.

 

[BartBart]

Wouldn't stretch the imagination too much to think Mini made it a priority to meet with anyone OOC who was looking elsewhere to assess whether he should encourage the move or sell them the vision of how they fit in. Rotham may have earned himself a reprieve for 12 months to play a different position or in a different game plan. He looked a likely type early on

On a side issue...


Is it just me who can't call people a nickname if I don't know them or haven't met them?

Be it ScoMo, Albo, "Buddy" Franklin, Mini.

Just feels weird.

 

[Obeanie1]

You can't ignore all the young players we've drafted from 2021 until now. Plenty of them have shown a lot and will develop into solid AFl players at a minimum: Edwards, Hough, J Williams, Maric, Ginbey, Long, Hutchinson, Dewar

Then there's a bunch who have shown glimpses but had bad luck with injury: Hewett, Bazzo, Hall, A Reid.

That's quite a lot of young players that have come through the draft. Richmond is coming from a long way back.

Start listing which of these guys start hitting 50 games.

That when we will see the jump in performance.

Hough and Ginbey are there.

Maric at 50 games I am looking forward to seeing. Long and Dewar also.

Hewett and Reid.

 

[briztoon]

You're looking at twice the number of top aged or essential players leaving Richmond vs West Coast.

You’ve already lost half of yours over the previous two offseasons, due to retirement.

Richmond’s list ran deeper in the 24 to 28 age group, putting both lists at about par now that you took a couple of theirs.

Richmond centre loading on draft picks isn't a proven strategy. Neither GWS or Gold Coast managed to snag a flag with superior hands and both the 2010 and 2011 drafts were pretty stacked.

Neither Gold Coast or GWS are in Melbourne. Nor have Richmond gutted their list like North.

On the flip side, a less sexy strategy that i don't particularly like in loading up on a lot of journeyman footballers seems to be working at Hawthorn because the coach has got them playing discreet roles and jelling well as a team.

I want to see what Mini can do with Harley, Hewett, Johnston, Bazzo, Chesser, Hall, Dewar, Williams, Mariac, Hutchinson, Brockman, A.Reid and Burgiel. I suspect there is a lot more there than Simpson exposed or had time to.

Richmond have just as many players around the same ages as all the players you mentioned above, drafted at similar picks, with the exception of Harley, and their fans probably think very similar to you. Time to see what our new coach can do with the kids.

You might have been rebuilding for three years now, but your top picks have been 14, 9, 14 & 1 plus where ever this year’s pick 12 ends up.

In the same period Richmond have drafted at 9 & 17. And they’re about to add 1, 6, 10 & 11 (or where ever they end up after bids).

So after this years draft, you’ll be equal on first round draftees, at very similar spots.

 

[Keys]

You know what

**** Richmond

Not really interested in discussing them

Fell off the same cliff we did but managed to do it in a year with a deep draft that coincided with two contracted players asking to leave to clubs who were both stacked with draft picks. Plus another out of contract player who asked to go to one of the few clubs who feel obliged to honour commitments they didn’t need to make

Hello 5 bonus R1 draft picks. (Plus a 6th from having the foresight to collect a bunch of R2/R3 picks last year that they could combine to trade to a club looking to stockpile points - full credit to them for that)

They didn’t plan for this, but took full advantage of the opportunities their circumstances presented

But if you want to discuss them further, go to the Richmond board. I’m done with it here

 

[briztoon]

Not really across your list, but Richmond’s is better. That’s just classic briztoon

Not once have I said Richmond’s is better.

I’ve said multiple times, I see both clubs at the same stage/place.

Actually the balance of their list is even more fkd up than ours. Getting it all done in one draft isn’t without its own pitfalls with regards to staying shitter performance wise for longer, and possible retention issues for the ones that develop early relative to the others and want to chase some success if it looks like a longer road than anticipated

 

[bzparkes]

On a side issue...


Is it just me who can't call people a nickname if I don't know them or haven't met them?

Be it ScoMo, Albo, "Buddy" Franklin, Mini.

Just feels weird.

I can't even call people by their nicknames even when I do know them, unless it's a shortened version of their name.

Weird as **** to me.

 

[Jezzza]

Have moved the WCE 4th rounder from this draft to Hawthorn to account for the typo. I'm not 100% sure it's correct but at least it's accounted for somewhere.
View attachment 2144972

Currently have the best stack of picks for next year.

I know next year is comprised with FS, NA, NGA but with the discount being less won’t those extra picks hold decent currency? Would we be better off using them to trade up with next year instead of having to pay a premium to get back into the draft this year?

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Hoping for the final delistings to be revealed tomorrow.

 

[stallon]

Does anyone have a subscription to The Mongrel Punt? He’s got an article behind the paywall about why we got it right with our trade strategy.

I rate the guy behind that blog. He’s one of the few that looks at all the teams with detail, not just the Vic ones. Thus I’m interested in his angle because he’s not prone to clickbait.

Not asking for the whole article to be pasted here but maybe just the premise.

Hes said that we were playing 5d chess getting pick 12 because guess which player is rated at pick 10-12?

Something along the lines of Richmond getting 10+11 off Freo while we have 12 to secure our boy

 

[ep2018]

Apparently we offered GWS 3 for 15 and 16 before Carlton stepped in. Sack Clarke sooner rather than later please.

 

[stallon]

Apparently we offered GWS 3 for 15 and 16 before Carlton stepped in. Sack Clarke sooner rather than later please.

I think the fact GWS said no says a bit about the draft too.

Clearly GWS dont rate the early part that much higher than the mid teens picks, maybe pick 12 is actually fine

 

[jwint43]

As much as I like this whole "concept" of Rotham in a faster game plan/style...

I don't think you can suddenly just flick some switch and the bloke goes back to being the player he was drafted as back in 2016. Even a diet coke version.

You can't just insta forget what's been drilled into you by Simpson for 7-8 yrs. I'm not entirely sure Rotham even possesses any of the pace and athletic traits he initially had back in the day, let alone the mental capacity to be an attacking player who wants to take the game on.

Along with his delist counterpart Witherden, they're the 2 biggest culprits of the stop, prop, look sideways motion and kick backwards, completely snuffing out any chance of a sling shot scoring chain.


If he's retained I hope it happens. I'll certainly get around the idea. We never should've tried turning the bloke into some sort of C grade lockdown KPD.

You don't often see someone nail it completely, but you have here. I watch alot of West Coast as I am WA based, and Rotham is a prime example of a player who had the flair and fun coached out of him. He always looks for the safe option, looking to minimise his mistakes at every opportunity. When he came into the side in 2019/20 this worked because the team was winning, but Simmo failed to adapt at all and he has been coached into this ultra safe, take no risks gamestyle that is the opposite of why he was recruited. He was also forced to play on massive key forwards way stronger then him which would have destroyed his confidence. I think he deserves a fresh start and an opportunity to get back to why he was drafted in the first place.