List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

Whose future picks would you have preferred?

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

  • Jai Culley, Alex Witherden and Coby Burgiel delisted






  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If DGB had spent the last 4 years on our list churning out the same level of performance as he has at Hawthorn posters here would be clamouring for his delisting

But because he’s been somewhere else supposedly we should look at him

I’d rather keep Rotham
 
So who do we reckon we'll go for at 12?
  • Hotton has to be a possibility. Talent wise I think he'd be a steal there. Sure he's coming off an ACL but so do lots of guys. Petracca did one in his first couple years IIRC.
  • Not that keen on Allan as he appears a low-production mid.
  • Lindsay seems a safe pick but ceiling wouldn't be as high as Hotton's.
  • do we reach for a Hynes.
  • Hope Murphy slides?
  • Berry seems a talent but a half forward is one of our lowest priorities.
  • Tauru likely not there by the sounds. Likewise TT.
 
maverick001 said:
So who do we reckon we'll go for at 12?
  • Hotton has to be a possibility. Talent wise I think he'd be a steal there. Sure he's coming off an ACL but so do lots of guys. Petracca did one in his first couple years IIRC.
  • Not that keen on Allan as he appears a low-production mid.
  • Lindsay seems a safe pick but ceiling wouldn't be as high as Hotton's.
  • do we reach for a Hynes.
  • Hope Murphy slides?
  • Berry seems a talent but a half forward is one of our lowest priorities.
  • Tauru likely not there by the sounds. Likewise TT.
Click to expand...
Richmond having a bajillion picks may throw things out of whack and they reach for a KPP.

In which case a talented mid should fall our way.
 

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maverick001 said:
So who do we reckon we'll go for at 12?
  • Hotton has to be a possibility. Talent wise I think he'd be a steal there. Sure he's coming off an ACL but so do lots of guys. Petracca did one in his first couple years IIRC.
  • Not that keen on Allan as he appears a low-production mid.
  • Lindsay seems a safe pick but ceiling wouldn't be as high as Hotton's.
  • do we reach for a Hynes.
  • Hope Murphy slides?
  • Berry seems a talent but a half forward is one of our lowest priorities.
  • Tauru likely not there by the sounds. Likewise TT.
Click to expand...

My thoughts :

Yes - In tiers.

Taura - consolation prize for missing out on TT.
Hynes - a reach I would be happy to take, a Robin partner for our Batman HR9.
Berry - exquisite skills, very smart, but can he morph into a mid at the next level, or are we happy with a HFF?????



Allen - a typical WC pick, can we convert a HBF into a genuine mid? .... track record says NO... wingman at best.
Lindsay - not as tidy by foot as advertised IMO and coming off a popped knee. RO'B would have said YES.

No - Red flags.

Hotton :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: and a ACL, massive flight risk, so probably pass.



Maybe - So tempting.

This a hard one ..... heart says F yeah ......... head says ... no... he will head home asap after his first contract...pity.

Murphy :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: is the real fly in the ointment for me, in this whole process, he is a massive flight risk, BUT, he is a very talented kid :star::star::star:, that deserves to be in the top 6 category for mine.... think - a Trent Cotchin clone.



What If - It happens every year.

I think there are two players that could slide for a variety of reasons:

A player from the Eastern Rangers.
A player from the Dandenong Stingrays.

If either did slide, I would pounce.



Complete shock name-riser.

Oliver Hannaford.


What I expect and am bracing for being called out :

Player Registration - 1224455667 - Bo Allen - Peel Thunder - Halls Head Junior Football Club.

My Hard On Pick :eggplant: .

Tobie Travaglia....... sadly :cry: ain't happening.
 
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Monocle said:
My thoughts :

Yes - In tiers.

Taura - consolation prize for missing out on TT.
Hynes - a reach I would be happy to take, a Robin partner for our Batman HR9.
Berry - exquisite skills, very smart, but can he morph into a mid at the next level, or are we happy with a HFF?????



Allen - a typical WC pick, can we convert a HBF into a genuine mid? .... track record says NO... wingman at best.
Lindsay - not as tidy by foot as advertised IMO and coming off a popped knee. RO'B would have said YES.

No - Red flags.

Hotton :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: and a ACL, massive flight risk, so probably pass.



Maybe - So tempting.

This a hard one ..... heart says F yeah ......... head says ... no... he will head home asap after his first contract...pity.

Murphy :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: is the real fly in the ointment for me, in this whole process, he is a massive flight risk, BUT, he is a very talented kid :star::star::star:, that deserves to be in the top 6 category for mine.... think - a Trent Cotchin clone.



What If - It happens every year.

I think there are two players that could slide for a variety of reasons:

A player from the Eastern Rangers.
A player from the Dandenong Stingrays.

If either did slide, I would pounce.



Complete shock name-riser.

Oliver Hannaford.


What I expect and am bracing for being called out :

Player Registration - 1224455667 - Bo Allen - Peel Thunder - Halls Head Junior Football Club.

My Hard On Pick :eggplant: .

Tobie Travaglia....... sadly :cry: ain't happening.
Click to expand...
Who are your picks at pick 26?
 
If we managed to snag Tauru at 12 after all this I'd be pretty happy, id call the drop from 3 to 12 a success if it happened. Less need to throw him in the side in a forward or mid role round 1 means we have less of a queue for one of those forward spots, especially when bringing Hewett in already.

Great option to replace Gov.
 
PremiershipNo4 said:
Righto, so WC now has 12 and 26, if Ruben (doesn’t shut up) was list manager WC would have pick 3 only, and been on our way to eternal glory, with chants of “erect a statue for Ruben”.
We all get your opinion, I don’t agree with it, so there!
Click to expand...
Cool. You just wrote a whole lot of emotional words that say nothing
 
Monocle said:
My thoughts :

Yes - In tiers.

Taura - consolation prize for missing out on TT.
Hynes - a reach I would be happy to take, a Robin partner for our Batman HR9.
Berry - exquisite skills, very smart, but can he morph into a mid at the next level, or are we happy with a HFF?????



Allen - a typical WC pick, can we convert a HBF into a genuine mid? .... track record says NO... wingman at best.
Lindsay - not as tidy by foot as advertised IMO and coming off a popped knee. RO'B would have said YES.

No - Red flags.

Hotton :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: and a ACL, massive flight risk, so probably pass.



Maybe - So tempting.

This a hard one ..... heart says F yeah ......... head says ... no... he will head home asap after his first contract...pity.

Murphy :babybottle::babybottle::babybottle: is the real fly in the ointment for me, in this whole process, he is a massive flight risk, BUT, he is a very talented kid :star::star::star:, that deserves to be in the top 6 category for mine.... think - a Trent Cotchin clone.



What If - It happens every year.

I think there are two players that could slide for a variety of reasons:

A player from the Eastern Rangers.
A player from the Dandenong Stingrays.

If either did slide, I would pounce.



Complete shock name-riser.

Oliver Hannaford.


What I expect and am bracing for being called out :

Player Registration - 1224455667 - Bo Allen - Peel Thunder - Halls Head Junior Football Club.

My Hard On Pick :eggplant: .

Tobie Travaglia....... sadly :cry: ain't happening.
Click to expand...
I like the Hannaford suggestion. Certainly something to work with there.

The club has had discussions with Lindsay I believe.

Allen resembles Ginbey too much for my liking. I don’t mind Ginbey but I don’t think we need 2 of that type of player.
 
Keys said:
If DGB had spent the last 4 years on our list churning out the same level of performance as he has at Hawthorn posters here would be clamouring for his delisting

But because he’s been somewhere else supposedly we should look at him

I’d rather keep Rotham
Click to expand...
Sounds like Carlton are sniffing around so likely not an option, but a Beagles stint perhaps? Gets to come home, ply his trade under the noses of recruiters in a position we’re very thin on for depth?

Then again, hard to look good in our backline. Better off going back to Swan Districts and not being inundated every week. Wonder what it would take to lure him to the Beagles.
 
Monocle said:
What I expect and am bracing for being called out :

Player Registration - 1224455667 - Bo Allen - Peel Thunder - Halls Head Junior Football Club.
Click to expand...
If that’s his actual rego number, that bodes very well. Just an aesthetically pleasing sequence.
 
Is it too late to join and give my 2 cents about trade week?

It's taken me a few days to absorb all the information, and as much as I don't like trading away a pick 3, I think the move to bring in senior players and trying to win more games in 2025 is the right move.

WC need a winning culture, and even though Richmond has a great hand of picks, they are going to be in for years of pain and will be the "new North" stuck to the bottom for the next 5 years.

WC have Wes Walley, Charlie Banfield and Koby Evans as NGA/FS next year - our F1 pick (likely top 5) needs to be kept and used on a prime mid in 2025 (if not used in trade for the Chad).

The Hawks F1 we should look to trade to get back into this year's draft. 1 picks in the 10-15 range or 2 picks in the 20-35 range would be ideal.

It will be interesting to see how many later picks get swallowed up amounting to points to match bids. Will bring our pick in the 70s lower.
 
WCE_phil said:
The club tried this, 200k extra a year and the afl still said it was still going to be band 4 not band 3. This along with he who will not be mentioned is what ****ed us on the Baker trade.

Darling was a good will trade. Not good will towards North but towards Jack. I would have much rather have kept him on the list another year but you can't begrudge a guy who has battled undersized for almost 300 games for the club for getting an extra 1-2 years in the system and the money that goes with it. (it's also 700k plus match payments off the books for next year)

No-one else came for Barrass in anywhere near the currency that the Hawks did so there really was no bidding war. It was either stay here with a 50k a year bonus on his current deal or go to the Hawks. He really wanted out for the security.

Pick 3 was being traded. The only thing im pissed about is that Clarke had guaranteed a teens pick for Richmond on Baker. Baker did pull a Judd though in that he wanted his outgoing team properly compensated. People here will know I'm not a big fan of Bakers skillset however I have to respect players that draw a line in the sand and look after their outgoing club. It says a lot about the person and with the way player managers operate now there's not much of it. That speaks a lot about his integrity and leadership as a person.
Click to expand...
I’ll name him, we seem to agree that Matthew Clarke is incompetent and was dragged out to deep water by other list managers, particularly Blair Hartley and co. We could have followed the Ben McKay precedent and top it up until it triggered band 3.

Not disputing the goodwill was toward Jack, but asking for a 5 pick upgrade in the 60s was not going to torpedo the deal. They came for him last year as well and from what I’m told were surprised their initial offer was accepted without any counter offer. As you rightly point out Jack was still an asset on our list, it wasn’t an unreasonable request and it would have been agreed to.

The Barrass situation with the lack of competitive offers is in part our fault. Had we said all along we’re aware the preference is Hawks but we’re also looking to get the best deal for the club I think clubs would have tabled more serious offers. Just need to look at the markets for Baker, Bolton, Houston, pick 13, Perryman (salary) when there’s more than one club in with a genuine chance. Had Barrass stayed i’m very confident the club would have looked after him financially one way or another.

The second sentence of your last paragraph pretty much sums it up and again shows a rookie approach and an emotional overvaluing of a player. Nice sentiments about Baker but he’s not Chris Judd and he’s not worth pick 14. Not even close and he doesn’t have the right to demand we pay x for him. It’s not like Richmond were scraping the barrel to get some good picks in. No worries Liam jog on to Cockburn or re-sign for your beloved Tigers should have been the response. Train wreck trade and I can’t believe there wasn’t a single person able to step in and say this is f**king ridiculous. Carlton are going to take a gun at 3 but I know I’m going to watch in particular FOS, Jagga and Draper run around for the next dozen years in a different jumper thinking gee they would have been good in the blue and gold.

In regard to splitting pick 3 there are going to be far better deals offered than the one we took. Look at the offers for pick 9 and 13. Why didn’t we trade 14 to the Swans for 19 and 22? 19 is still a pick in the teens. 12,22,26 looks better than 12,26 to me. Why didn’t we wait before blowing our load and trading? Despite the public posturing Richmond would have come for pick 2 and 3, Clarke just shat his pants.

Now he says on radio he wants to use our future picks to get back up the draft order. What kind of a moron are we dealing with here? He’s done and should do the right thing and resign before doing more irreparable damage to the club.
 

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WCE_phil said:
I'll post pictures from the beach if you like. I am so close to done it's hard not to be happy. Mind you I am a little worried about ending up in jail for losing my shit and going on a rooster killing rampage.
Click to expand...
🤣 I hear you. I say the same thing every time we stay in the family bungalow on Phu Quoc.
 
eaglespremiers said:
Taking a wholestic view of their list is quite illuminating:

31+
Vlastuin will be 31 in the early rounds of next season, Broad will be 32 at a similar time, Nankervis will be 31 later in the season and Lynch is about to turn 32. Grimes, Prestia, McIntosh, Naismith and Pickett (should he remain on their list) are all a similar age. It is unlikely that any of these are going to improve in the next year or two as they head towards retirement.
I honestly could see 2-3 of these retiring by the end of next year with another 3-4 probably the year after.
Maybe 1-2 will remain after list cuts at the end of 2026.

27-30
They lost Bolton, Rioli, Baker and Graham in this range over the last couple of weeks.
That leaves Taranto, Hopper and Short in the 27-30 age bracket next year, and that's it (three on their entire list).
Hopper is a lesser midfielder than either Yeo or Kelly (and by some margin) and you can't build a midfield around Taranto.
Incidentally Short will be 29 before the start of the season and Hopper will be 28.

22-26
The players they have that will be aged between 22 and 26 next year will be:
  • Balta (104 games, 12.2 disposals, 37 goals)
  • Ross (65 games, 15.7 disposals, 15 goals)
  • Koschitzke (62 games, 8.4 disposals, 66 goals)
  • Mansell (53 games, 9.8 disposals, 32 goals)
  • Ralphsmith (50 games, 12.5 disposals, 15 goals)
  • Miller (46 games, 9.8 disposals, 9 goals)
  • M Rioli (36 games, 7.7 disposals, 26 goals)
  • Dow (34 games, 14.9 disposals, 1 goal)
  • Young (28 games, 9.2 disposals, 0 goals)
  • Cumberland (25 games, 8.2 disposals, 33 goals)
  • Sonsie (24 games, 13.4 disposals, 7 goals)
  • Ryan (23 games, 6.6 disposals, 15 goals)
  • Lefau (10 games, 7.2 disposals, 14 goals)
  • Trezise (8 games, 14.1 disposals, 0 goals)
  • Bauer (7 games, 6.4 disposals, 8 goals)
  • Coulthard (6 games, 5.8 disposals, 2 goals)
  • Blight (3 games, 12 disposals, 0 goals)
  • Colina (0 games)
  • Hayes-Brown (0 games)

Balta is quality. The rest I'll leave for your assessment, but I would suggest that there is very limited quality (or experience) in the remaining players. Your opinion may vary.

In summation I don't think that what Richmond is doing is the best way to go about a rebuild.
Sure they will have 7-8 potentially high quality selections this year.
But the odds are that 4-5 will become good 200+ players and, given the state of their list, I just don't think that's enough.

Also, having a few seniors who will disappear very quality over the next couple of years and Taranta, Hopper and Balta as the sole experienced leaders is likely not going to be a good environment to develop these players to their best potential.
I might be wrong, but I think that Richmond are in for some hurt for some time ahead.
Click to expand...
Good post. I started a similar exercise yesterday until I got bored and lost interest.

Adding to yours, below is Richmond's 2024 BnF list. Top 6 is either over 30 or now traded, with two more in the top 10 either over or nearing 30. They are in for a lot of pain and will make for an interesting study on how to build a list.

Aside from a big draft hand this year, I think they have two things in their favour. The first is that my money is on VaFL looking favourably on them for priority picks when they are trash for the next two years. The second is that as a big Victorian club with plenty of money in the cap will make it easy for them to sponge off the northern clubs.

But I agree with you, not much in that over 22 age bracket to get excited about.

1st – Daniel Rioli, 40
2nd – Nick Vlastuin, 38
3rd – Toby Nankervis, 36
4th – Nathan Broad, 33
Eq. 5th – Shai Bolton, 30
Eq. 5th – Liam Baker, 30
7th – Rhyan Mansell, 29
8th – Jayden Short, 26
9th – Ben Miller, 25
10th – Dion Prestia, 24
Eq. 11th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 21
Eq. 11th – Seth Campbell, 21
Eq. 11th – Noah Balta, 21
Eq. 11th – Tim Taranto, 21
15th – Maurice Rioli, 16
Eq. 16th – Tom Brown, 14
Eq. 16th – Hugo Ralphsmith, 14
Eq. 16th – Sam Banks, 14
Eq. 19th – Thomson Dow, 11
Eq. 19th – Jacob Koschitzke, 11
Eq. 19th – Dustin Martin, 11
 
amazingjoshy said:
Your first point was that the Hawks did 3 years ago what Richmond are doing now. That's not true at all. Their lineup for their first final win



Your 2nd point was that Hawthorn played more under 25s than us. I said we have a heap.of u25s on our list but they may not be getting games because our development sucks

Now the goalposts have changed again to 21-25 year olds who played AFL this year

I have no idea what you're trying to say tbh
Click to expand...

Hawthorn have traded in a ton of players. 8 of the 22 came from elsewhere. Hawks never hit just 1 draft that is a new concept but like Hawks, Richmond is trying to get a group of players in a similar age range to come through together.

Sorry im saying why Hawks are so far ahead in the rebuild then us. They have been able to put 21-25 year olds into the team ie. when they are ready and develop them all in one go.

This is what Richmond is trying to achieve. A group of individuals in the same age group developing together. We dont appear to be doing the same at all, especially when you steal opportunities away by chucking 3 27 year olds into the mix
 
We_The_West said:
I think the move to bring in senior players and trying to win more games in 2025 is the right move.
Click to expand...
Sinking to the bottom of the ladder and then not taking the associated draft picks is wild.

If Baker and Graham could get Richmond above 18th, how much difference do you think they will make with us in 2025?

Baker is more about setting a standard. Harley doesn't need it. The rest, at this point are soldiers.
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
Typical of the club also. Actions without consequences. In fact that should be hoisted up on the Round 1 Banner in all honesty
Click to expand...
A lot of people have complained for a long time. I generally haven't had a problem. People blowing minds and melting like Mr Whippy because we didn't nail pick #36 etc. Nizzy was good, but he got stale and stayed too long. These guys didn't choke and sack Simmo too early. They didn't trade out the Harley pick. Everything was set up - take #3 to the draft, grab Warner next year, as we climb the ladder we add KPD's and elite outsiders.

This is the first time that I'm thinking, "We're in the shit. We have self-serving short term clowns running the club". These guys are kidding themselves if they think trading out of top 5 is a good idea. Warner is an exception - when a guy that good comes out of contract and wants to come home, you have to cough up. Other than that, stay in the draft. West Coast have always stayed the course and it's served them well.
 
Ruben Grubarb said:
A lot of people have complained for a long time. I generally haven't had a problem. People blowing minds and melting like Mr Whippy because we didn't nail pick #36 etc. Nizzy was good, but he got stale and stayed too long. These guys didn't choke and sack Simmo too early. Everything was set up - take #3 to the draft, grab Warner next year, as we climb the ladder we add KPD's and elite outsiders.

This is the first time that I'm thinking, "We're in the shit. We have self-serving short term clowns running the club". These guys are kidding themselves if they think trading out of top 5 is a good idea. Warner is an exception - when a guy that good comes out of contract and wants to come home, you have to cough up. Other than that, stay in the draft. West Coast have always stayed the course and it's served them well.
Click to expand...
I got here 12+ months ago and it all kind of hit me when I went to see our WAFL side play late on in 2023 when some players began to come back

If you genuinely sit and watch the opposition and our WAFL team over the course of game day preparation and the like, you can just see we don't care or take things seriously. We get pummeled for a reason and it isnt just 100% talent.

When a WAFL team is more hungry, prepared and passionate then you, you have serious cultural issues. We spent 12 months not addressing it. We are doing the same with our rebuild. Hiding from it and not addressing it.

Its been a good 2 years of complete and utter weakness. Too scared to ask WAFL for better conditions, too scared to ask AFL for priority picks too scared to sack Simmo, too scared to really attack the players and demand more professionalism too scared to hurt Liam Bakers feelings. Only thing we arnt scared to do is raise ticket prices and tell fans to go get ****ed if they ask for payment plans to help them pay it off

Nothing and I mean nothing can move away from the fact. We are weak. You cant justify it in any other way. We need to accept what it is and demand change. Clapping like trained seals and arrogantly believing its a temporary thing wont get you anywhere
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
I got here 12+ months ago and it all kind of hit me when I went to see our WAFL side play late on in 2023 when some players began to come back

If you genuinely sit and watch the opposition and our WAFL team over the course of game day preparation and the like, you can just see we don't care or take things seriously. We get pummeled for a reason and it isnt just 100% talent.

When a WAFL team is more hungry, prepared and passionate then you, you have serious cultural issues. We spent 12 months not addressing it. We are doing the same with our rebuild. Hiding from it and not addressing it.

Its been a good 2 years of complete and utter weakness. Too scared to ask WAFL for better conditions, too scared to ask AFL for priority picks too scared to sack Simmo, too scared to really attack the players and demand more professionalism too scared to hurt Liam Bakers feelings. Only thing we arnt scared to do is raise ticket prices and tell fans to go get ****ed if they ask for payment plans to help them pay it off

Nothing and I mean nothing can move away from the fact. We are weak. You cant justify it in any other way. We need to accept what it is and demand change. Clapping like trained seals and arrogantly believing its a temporary thing wont get you anywhere
Click to expand...
We have just changed a number of personnel can you please stop talking shit.
 
eaglevision said:
Nice sentiments about Baker but he’s not Chris Judd and he’s not worth pick 14. Not even close and he doesn’t have the right to demand we pay x for him.Train wreck trade and I can’t believe there wasn’t a single person able to step in and say this is f**king ridiculous. Carlton are going to take a gun at 3 but I know I’m going to watch in particular FOS, Jagga and Draper run around for the next dozen years in a different jumper thinking gee they would have been good in the blue and gold.
Click to expand...
This exactly.

I'm almost done sooking about it, but it's gonna shit me for some time.

I might be drawing a long bow here, but it's almost as if the inference is that our club's standards (training, effort, attitude) have fallen so low that we targeted an average player with the apparent leadership skills/ability to turn this around. That's really a coach's job.

Given we went with McQualter (and also signed Graham) it almost supports the theory.

Looking at some of our team's efforts over the last few years (as far back as the GC covid hub?) maybe it'll prove to be a masterstroke.

And that's about as optimistic as I can be about giving up 14 for an OOC, undersized flanker.
 

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