Hawks Outlook?

[illnino]

b: jacobs dawson sewell
hb: smith croad guerra
c: bateman crawford vandenberg
hf: clarke franklin roughead
f: dixon williams brown
r: everitt hodge mitchell

i: cambell kane birchall boyle young lewis etc. etc.

This, or something similar, will probably be what Clarkson's got in mind for a couple of weeks time when Franklin and Croad are both fit and match-ready.......not that bad really....

Dissapointing last night but 2 good signs were the clearances in the first half to Mitchell and, to a lesser extent Hodge, before the team gave up all hope in the second half (not that they looked like having much hope in the first half either) and that Birchall and Kane didnt go to bad (IMO )....

Birchall - started showing something towards the last half of the game and I was impressed with his skills (although a bit jittery at times) with kicking and generally having a go.

Kane - I feel just needs more game time.......like alot of the hawthorn team......but CAN find the ball and SHOULD become a very handy midfielder to relieve a bit of pressure from sammy and luke (these 2 guys have been tagged hard in the last few games!).

I honoustly havnt been to impressed with Boyles performances and he seemed to struggle a bit all night last night, just not reading the ball right, however hopefully with a bit more game time he can become a key foward player for us - has the height and shows strength, just couldnt get a clean grab last night.

Being a long time, die-hard hawks supporter (and yes, member) I am dissapointed, and believe that last nights performance showed alot of similarities to the Hawks of 2004/5

- It seems that to win games we need our full team, with all key position players playing because thats when the hawks play looking like they want to play, and looking like they really want to win the ball at EVERY opportunity.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[Skyfire15]

So where to? IS Clarkson the answer? I dunno - my doubts continue to build.. I have the feeling that perhaps Kennett and Dunstall are working 24*7 putting a package together to entice L Matthews back to the club... I can dream right!! Cos the current style is not just ugly but its getting boring and with the exception of 2000-2001 years where we competed - I'm sick of seeing my team loose like last night!

Welcome, Skyfire15. I have been a backer of Clarkson. But since the Pies game my doubts are growing at the rate of knots. Crikey, I didn't think we would have to go through doubts about coaching so soon after the Schwab era, but hell with forwards, like Rocca, Thompson and and Neitz licking their lips when, for them, Hawthorn is an upcoming game, I rest my case. I'm not running down youn Zack, but included in a game plan a coach would need to emphasise backing up for the kid but as a game progresses Clarko seems to do nothing as some of our backman stand and watch young Zack having nightmares. Just hope Clarko's form improves dramatically and leads the way for our struggling players.

And thanks, Skyfire, for the rest of your post, a profound summarization of the status quo.

Cheers mate, Gaz.

 

[illnino]

The hawks just need to bring there game faces with or WITHOUT croad/crawf/jacobs in the team etc........just focus on winning the ball at every chance for the WHOLE game, not just a half (ie against kangas, brissy, melb)

It seems as though the first 10-15 mins of each match is what wins/loses it for the hawks.....they either come out firing,get the first couple of goals, and ride the momentum through the game, or, come out firing, but get a couple kicked against them first, and be half assed for the rest of the match.

And then theres the games that they just arnt there at all.....

My point is that the mighty hawks seem to lack belief that they CAN ACTUALLY WIN when things arnt goin theyre way and, mixed with the fact that they are without one or two of theyre guns, morale drops even more.

C'mon Guerra, Everitt, Smith - these 3 guys can all play MUCH better footy than what they are playin now and are huge inspirations for the rest of the hawk mob!

 

[burner1]

We seem to have lost the intensity of earlier in the season. I think its becoming apparent that are mid level players are probably a lot weaker than we first thought. Seems a lot of the outcome rests on the performance of hodge, mitchell, crawf, jacobs, everitt and williams. If a few have an off day we lose. The next tier of players especially Ladson, bateman, smith really need to lift to take the load off so few. The injury concerns of hodge and jacobs are also affecting their output.

For outlook for the rest of the season, have heard barker kicked another 3 in BH reserves so might me a chance to come up in a few weeks. The addition of Barker, croad and a fit franklin makes us a lot better strucutred team. I think the leadership, experience & confidence that barker would add to the fwd strucutre cannot be underestimated. Would like to see Little get a game soon and if thurgood and murphy can stop getting injured then would be good to see them getting a run as well.
In 4 weeks time would be excited to see:
Sewell Dawson Jacobs
Birchall Croad Guerra
Kane Mitchell Bateman
Franklin Barker Murphy/little
Williams Roughhead Brown
Everit Hodge Crawf
Bench Campbell, Smith, Vanders, Dixon, Clarke, Young, Lewis

 

[illnino]

I forgot abot Thurgood

But realistically I dont think Clarko would start with smith, vanders or dixon on the bench for any match for the the rest of the season let alone in 4 weeks time.........I do think those particular players all need to lift, however their experience is invaluable to a young hawthorn side.

I agree with you about Little too, he looks promising. Is he Hird's cousin??(got told he is)

Maybe Barker at FF or a pocket........I'd like to see roughy or lance take CHF with croad at CHB.

Ries and Birchall both seem to be coming along nicely which is good to see however Jacobs and Hodgey are clearly both playing injured .......That's my biggest concern.......we cannot afford to lose them just as Franklin and Croad are ready to go.

I think that with all of our players in, the hawks just generally try harder across the ground and look like they want to win. eg the first 4 weeks and NAB Cup (we were unlucky in the second round of NAB Cup......played fairly well I thought)

 

[Honest John]

Need harry m in f pocket.dixon out.not enough crumbing speed .ladson out . will never have the strength to b top notch. only a receiver.leave young in team. will b better than someone like tivendale when he`s 23 \24.would like to see thurgood back.

 

[illnino]

Need harry m in f pocket.dixon out.not enough crumbing speed .ladson out . will never have the strength to b top notch. only a receiver.leave young in team. will b better than someone like tivendale when he`s 23 \24.would like to see thurgood back.

Agree about Miller, but I do however like ladsons disposal skills and ability to find the ball, just isnt hard enough at the ball.

Young has a great left foot kick, just not when he's under pressure, but he is showing promise.

Dixon, while no where near on top of his game (can't hold a mark atm ), shows great determination whenever the ball is near him and always trys to create opportunities up forward, however cant seem to make much of those opportunities.

P.S Far out......at least we arnt the only team to cop a thumping.......the cats are playing horribly......thank god we dont have thommo for a coach

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Need harry m in f pocket.dixon out.not enough crumbing speed .ladson out . will never have the strength to b top notch. only a receiver.leave young in team. will b better than someone like tivendale when he`s 23 \24.would like to see thurgood back.

HJ, Clinton Young has played 13 senior games and whilst quiet in some recent games and things not going all that well for him, i.e: Guerra going over the 10mtr line kicking out at Carrara after passing to Clint who was just about to launch a much needed long-bomb into our starved forward line and missing a vital snap for goal narrowly against North. Our team needs the style of Youngie - his long and accurate kicks into the scoring zone.

Our selectors need to perservere longer than 13 game stretches with kids who have special atributes. Mind you, Clarko is a strong advocate of Clinton's style saying plenty about him in post-match media sessions.

After last week's thrashing we need Clinton back. Has anyone a report on him from the Box Hill game?

Young has a great left foot kick, just not when he's under pressure, but he is showing promise.

Great observation, Illnino.

 

[illnino]

After last week's thrashing we need Clinton back. Has anyone a report on him from the Box Hill game?

TIME/VENUE
2:00 PM Sat 20/May

TEAC Oval Port Melbourne 17.6-108 vs
Box Hill Hawks 26.13-169

Box Hill Hawks

Goal Kickers: S. Taylor 5, L. Franklin 4, K. Height 3, C. Hunter 3, J. Cook 3, M. Little 2, M. Ball, N. Ries, B. McGlynn, J. Lewis, E. Johnson, M. Crook
Best Players: J. Lewis, N. Ries, S. Taylor, J. Thurgood, C. Young, K. Height


Box Hill Hawks

Player Name No Gls B
Cameron Hunter 1 3 0
Kristan Height (C) 3 3 6
Brendan Weinert 6 0 0
Evan Johnson 8 1 0
Nicholas Ries 16 1 2
Luke Brennan 17 0 0
Jason Cook 18 3 0
Patrick Hassett 19 0 0
Bradley Kelleher 27 0 0
Matthew Little 28 2 0
Phillip Carse 30 0 0
Matthew Ball 31 1 0
Josh Thurgood 33 0 4
Max Bailey 36 0 0
Stephen Gilham 42 0 0
Ben McGlynn 43 1 0
Marcus Crook 44 1 0
Clinton Young 45 0 5
Dale Bull 46 0 0
Jordan Lewis 67 1 1
Lance Franklin 68 4 0
Simon Taylor 76 5 3

(sorry its a bit messy )

1. Where is Barker?
2. Go Lance! 4 Goals!
3.Taylor???

Youngy must have been kicking under pressure......5 behinds!lol
Same with Thurgood......

However, I just added up the behinds and it totals 21 when it says our score was 26.13 - 169

Thats a bit odd?

BTW Box Hill's first win for the season!

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Thanks for that, Illnino. Great stuff! Some very interesting stats coming out of it. Hope Buddy gets out of the report so he can be returned to the seniors.

Maybe it's about time for a shake up. Bring back J. Lewis, N. Ries, S. Taylor, J. Thurgood, C. Young? What do others think?

 

[burner1]

Think Lewis will def go back up, not sure we need him and ries in same team although syndey are very good in close so ries might be called up 'horses for courses'. The fwd line is really lacking a tall target with croad out. Parking Taylor in the square would at least take away one decent defender from williams, dixon, roughie. Heard that taylor dropped a few easy ones and could have easily had a lot more than 5. I think Kane is performing similar role to young so young might stay down for another week or two. Thurgood has missed a lot through injury lately so will probably play another game or two in bhh, he would definitely add some intensity to our backline and is a fantastic spolier and quick. Could even go forward as will definitely present. Interesting to see buddy not listed in best after 4 goals.
A fwd line of franklin/miller roughie thurgood
dixon Talyor Williams
looks a bit more dangerous than present.
All up depth is not looking disasterous atm if these players listed above are in the twos playing well with croad, barker, and potentially dowler, ellis, muston & tuck avaialbe to play in the future.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Young, lewis - YES
Ries - NO
Taylor - Undecided, a bit robotic.
Thurgood - needs more time.

 

[Fat Tony]

I think now is the time to put a more structured forward line in place. With Little, Franklin, Taylor kicking 11 goals between them for box hill i reckon those players supporting dixon, willo and roughead for this weeks match against sydney we might have a chance.

I also reckon we should put the Bailey down back. His size and strength would make it hard for barry or any other sydney forward to out mark him on a one on one contest. We could make the job easier for Bailey by forcing the sydney midfielders to kick long and indirect (i.e. lots of players at every stopage causing kicks to be placed under presure... make it a real scrapy sort of a game, not free flowing) I mean i know that bailey would probably be beaten by a leading forward but if he has time to get to the contest i reckon he would at least stop the opposition player from marking the ball. Thoughts?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Max Bailey is not physically up to matching Barry Hall. I would've thought this was quite obvious.

 

[Fat Tony]

Max Bailey is not physically up to matching Barry Hall. I would've thought this was quite obvious.

uh mate what are you talking about? He took a great contested mark against ben rutten in the preseason with ease. He clearly has the strength to match it with most players otherwise he would not be able to take such a great grab against a quality opponent and then follow it up with a good performance for box hill. However if you have seen him fail badly in a one on one contest tell me because from what i have seen (preseason, boxhill) he looks ready for the challange... hell better him than zac.

 

[burner1]

um one mark does not make you a great defender. He is a ruckman who may rest in the fwd line. He is in his first year. He is tall yes, and quite mobile for a big guy. Is he strong compared to other players his size. Not yet. Is he a key defender? No Could he match hall? No way.

 

[Fat Tony]

um one mark does not make you a great defender. He is a ruckman who may rest in the fwd line. He is in his first year. He is tall yes, and quite mobile for a big guy. Is he strong compared to other players his size. Not yet. Is he a key defender? No Could he match hall? No way.

yeah i see your point I just think that this club needs to try something different. I mean zac is going to get slaughted out there on saturday he needs help and i just reckon we need someone with a bit of size and strength to go back there. In the perfect world we would have a 150 game super backman but we have to make do with what we have. I chose bailey because he seems to have some strength or at least enough strength to stop hall kicking 10+ goals.

 

[illnino]

Alot of our box hill players seem to be playing really good football however I doubt Clarko would add Baily, Lewis, Young, Taylor, Ries, Little and Franklin all at once....

So realistically what are we lookin at this week people?

B Sewell Jacobs Dawson
Guerra Roughead Smith
C Bateman Hodge Ladson
Clarke Boyle Vandenberg
F Dixon Williams Brown
R Everitt Mitchell Crawford
I Cambell Lewis Birchall Kane

IN: Lewis
OUT: Miller
--------------------------------------

Maybe a few other small ins and outs ie. Lewis, Birchall, Kane, or Boyle OUT
Miller, Ries, Franklin etc IN

I'm hoping Jacobs or Roughie will play on Barry at FB
I'm guessing Roughie will start Back after our defensive effort last week...

An Incredibly Weak Foward Line but it looks likely this week unless Franklin can make into the squad at HF with Boyle on a flank.....still not that great, but better

The only other things would be if Jacobs is playing or not, How Hodge will hold up (he didn't look to healthy on friday night ), and maybe Crawford playing on a Foward Flank and allowing Lewis/Kane/Bateman to have a run around in the middle.....

What do you think??? Is this how Clarkson will line 'em up this Saturday night against the Swannies.....???....
(would love lance to be in but realistically I think we may have to wait another week or two.....)

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Boyle and Miller and Ladson will be out this week. Lewis, Young and Franklin will come in.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

uh mate what are you talking about? He took a great contested mark against ben rutten in the preseason with ease. He clearly has the strength to match it with most players otherwise he would not be able to take such a great grab against a quality opponent and then follow it up with a good performance for box hill. However if you have seen him fail badly in a one on one contest tell me because from what i have seen (preseason, boxhill) he looks ready for the challange... hell better him than zac.

I'm all for encouraging Zack but please Clarko don't line him up against big bad Bazz. Bailey should be given an opportunity.

In another post I wrote that forwards, Rocca, Thompson and Neitz must have been licking their lips as a Hawthorn game approached. I can hear Bazz's lips a-smackin right now. We need someone to smack him, someone of no less than equal height and strength and with guts and determination to negate and close down Hall, one of the comps' best full-forwards. Who have we got in our line-up to fit the bill?

 

[burner1]

OUT: Boyle, ladson and miller
In: Lewis, Franklin, Taylor
Think young performs similar role to kane and kane might be given another week. Thought miller was better this week, may stay in, although wont be given any room to work in by the swans. Also jacobs looked injured, might be chance to miss either this week or next. Hodge also needs a week off to get hmself right.
Would like roughie to start at CHF again this week, only go back if hall killing us. Smith to take hall with jacobs cutting off leads. Campbell may also going back to be body on body with hall. We wont win if we dont have a fwd line but by the same token we wont win if hall kicks 8. I think our whole team plays better when we have something to kick to other than williams on the lead so stack up the fwd line and hope our midfield gets on top.
Line up:
Jacobs Dawson Sewell
Brown Smith Guerra
Vanders Mitchell Kane
Franklin Rough Dixon
Willo Taylor Clarke
Everitt Hodge Crawf
Campbell Lewis Bateman Birchall

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

uh mate what are you talking about? He took a great contested mark against ben rutten in the preseason with ease. He clearly has the strength to match it with most players otherwise he would not be able to take such a great grab against a quality opponent and then follow it up with a good performance for box hill. However if you have seen him fail badly in a one on one contest tell me because from what i have seen (preseason, boxhill) he looks ready for the challange... hell better him than zac.

So because Max Took one contested mark against an AA full back in a preseason game he can match it with Barry Hall?
Please...
If Bailey was to play on Hall next week, he would get a bath. Why should a developing ruckman be subjected to one of the best power forwards in the league, in his debut as well. He has alot to learn, not just about rucking, but about body placement, where to run and all round defensive play.
This whole theory of brining him up for the job on Hall is ridiculous and I can't believe there is even an argument about it.

 

[illnino]

In another post I wrote that forwards, Rocca, Thompson and Neitz must have been licking their lips as a Hawthorn game approached. I can hear Bazz's lips a-smackin right now. We need someone to smack him, someone of no less than equal height and strength and with guts and determination to negate and close down Hall, one of the comps' best full-forwards. Who have we got in our line-up to fit the bill?

Roughie or Jacobs.......We need Franklin in at HF and I think maybe even throw Taylor in at FF with Willo moving to a pocket.

I personally don't think Clarkson is that far of the mark......

With Croad, Jacobs, Crawford, Hodge and Franklin(??) all Fit and firing, the team doesnt look half bad with Smith/Guerra chopping off attacks, Croad/Roughie working it out of the back, Sammy/Hodgey running the midfield and Franklin/Williams/Dixon providing options up forward......
We also still have Barker to come and Roughie/Croad could both have stints up foward if we cannot apply any, "score board pressure" (One of Clarko's favourites)

We all know Cambell, Brown, Young, Kane, Miller, Muston, Dowler etc. are all travelling along nicely and Crawford, Everitt, Ladson, Bateman, Vanders, Sewell, Lewis, Clarke etc all capable of solid performances, all though they need to string a few good games together.

I think the Hawks can be a very competitive team (yes, top 8 material) this year and the next........
Its just a matter of staying injury free and going hard at the ball for the Whole match, Every match......I don't think we have to wait 3-4 years......well I hope not

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We all know Cambell, Brown, Young, Kane, Miller, Muston, Dowler etc. are all travelling along nicely and Crawford, Everitt, Ladson, Bateman, Vanders, Sewell, Lewis, Clarke etc all capable of solid performances, all though they need to string a few good games together. I think the Hawks can be a very competitive team (yes, top 8 material) this year and the next........Its just a matter of staying injury free and hard at the ball for the Whole match, Every match......I don't think we have to wait 3-4 years......well I hope not

I don't know what you mean by travelling along nicely when you mention Dowler, Muston and Miller. Dowler is a work in progress and may get a call up later this season, Muston may not even play this year and Miller has done nothing at AFL level and may be on his last chance.

As for Ladson, Sewell and Clarke, and I'm probably being a bit harsh on Sewell as he does some unheralded work in the back half but Clarke and Ladson are only solid in one of three games. What we need to push for finals(and in my mind we are not goin to this year) is to replace these sort of players with genuinely skilled and consistant players ( or have them improve even more).
Clarke is a deadset goer, no problems there, and is getting everything possible out of himself but he is limited in terms of footskills and body work even though he is much improved on both fronts.

 

[illnino]

I don't know what you mean by travelling along nicely when you mention Dowler, Muston and Miller. Dowler is a work in progress and may get a call up later this season, Muston may not even play this year and Miller has done nothing at AFL level and may be on his last chance.

As for Ladson, Sewell and Clarke, and I'm probably being a bit harsh on Sewell as he does some unheralded work in the back half but Clarke and Ladson are only solid in one of three games. What we need to push for finals(and in my mind we are not goin to this year) is to replace these sort of players with genuinely skilled and consistant players ( or have them improve even more).
Clarke is a deadset goer, no problems there, and is getting everything possible out of himself but he is limited in terms of footskills and body work even though he is much improved on both fronts.

I mean that they are travelling along nicely........Maybe not at AFL level....but they are improving and are all future prospects....(well, maybe not harry )

As for Clarke, Sewell, and Ladson they are as good as the next mid-level footballer.......The Johnsons, Peverill, Mooney, Lonies, Coughlan, Tambling, Bizzel, McDonald, Fisher, Walker etc.

Some will progress to become greats: Judd's, Hall's and Fletcher's
Some will become good solid players: Vanders, Power, Ball
Some will end up like Hay, Rioli etc

I don't believe replacing the likes of Clarke, Sewell, Ladson will be the answer however I do think these players (and others) all need to put in 110% at training this week and make sure they are prepared for a tough, skilled Sydney side this Weekend!