List clean out is urgently needed

[WA footy mad]

Midfield is the main issue, WCE mids are way to slow.
Lets trade a few of our old midfielders? bundle them up & try for a first round draft pick.
3 for the price of one draft pick Sheed, Gaff & ?.
These guys have been great for WCE but its time to move on.

 

[Tugga27]

Midfield is the main issue, WCE mids are way to slow.
Lets trade a few of our old midfielders? bundle them up & try for a first round draft pick.
3 for the price of one draft pick Sheed, Gaff & ?.
These guys have been great for WCE but its time to move on.

Tell me how you're going to get rid of contracted players?
Especially WA boys like Sheed.

 

[WCEforeverman]

Drafting this year will be a powder keg.

If the club accepts that we are at 100% rebuilding phase, and as talls take longer to come on.... and it realy pains me to say this... we need to draft talls. JK replacement, backup Gov and a quality young ruckman.

And this flies in the face of what I want. We haven't drafted a decent mid in a very long time. Every year for 10 years there's an excuse. And this year? If not now then when?

Regardless I'm melting hard again come draft day.

I think we are actually ok for talls, except for the ruck position.

We have Barrass, Waterman, Allen and Edwards who all should be around in the next 3-4 years. Edwards and Waterman will have to continue to improve obviously and that is not a given.

We also just drafted Bazzo and Williams who are those 'project' talls and you would imagine Dixon will be kept on the list after his performances this year.

 

[Goroyals22]

Tell me how you're going to get rid of contracted players?
Especially WA boys like Sheed.

First step is say unless you can show me an intent to tackle, two way running and improve your disposal your future is wafl football.. your a break glass in case of emergency option behind any kid we recruit who can play your roll..

You can either look for a trade or we will pay you out in a settlement

They all have egos and will want to play afl..

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

No it's not. We actually started rebuilding in 2017 and have already re-done most of the forward line (Allen, Ryan, Rioli and various HFF like Petch, Jones etc). Darling should be around for a couple of years but we do need a second tall forward (Waterman doesn't look like he gets there).

Backline is pretty stocked too with players that have years left (Barrass, Edwards, Duggan, Cole, Witho) but we could do with an attacking HBF. We have maybe drafted them already (Hough, Chesser?) but they need experience or it is the type of position we can trade for.

Midfield is the one that needs the work. Yeo, Sheed and Kelly are young enough to be in our next finals tilt, but we need a couple of young players to become future A Graders. We all hope a couple of bottom 4 finishes will allow that. Hopefully guys like Edwards and XON fill in the solid B grade roles (like Redden). Those are also positions that are easy to trade for.

All we need for the ruck is some solid citizens like Lycett and Vardy were. I suspect we already have them in Dixon and Strnadica.

In short, we actually have a lot of pieces already but need a couple of A grade mids and another KPF (unless one of the Williams comes on which is possible). It feel very similar to 2008-2010 in that we bottom for two years and pump games into a young midfield. Could easily see us bounce back for a year or two as our senior players have one last crack (Yeo, Kelly, Darling, Gov etc) supported by the young guys. Will probably then miss finals for a year or two when they retire.

Sydney looks to be walking this path well. They did two years in the bottom 4 and were regenerating their list with guys like Heemy and Mills before that (bloody academy cheats).

This

We cleared out the oldies and hit the draft hard at the end of 2017. That's when the rebuild began. Then 2018 happened and we tried to grab another with Kelly, and it didn't work out.

But as you say the foundation (outside of the midfield) is there. Things are never as dire as they appear. Unless you support Norf.

Conventional wisdom says talls take longer than midfielders to develop, so hopefully we've timed things perfectly and blokes like Allen, Williams etc start to peak at the same time the midfielders we (BETTER ****ING) recruit over the next few years.

 

[dinnaz]

Conventional wisdom says talls take longer than midfielders to develop

Like 1 year or so more than a midfielder.
What happens is a year or 2 of development and then you reach a decent AFL caliber level and then make smaller improvements after that.

• Darling was good in Year 1, hit AFL level in year 2
• Allen was good in Year 2, hit AFL level in year 3
• Kennedy got games at Carlton early on in a shit side but hit AFL level in year 3 at West Coast.

So in 3 years you will know what you have, and that will be a guy who deserves AFL games week in week out.
1x key forward & 1x ruck should all be on the shopping list along with everything else but we have the next 2 drafts to pick them up in anticipation for a 2025 peak club year.

 

[WCEforeverman]

Like 1 year or so more than a midfielder.
What happens is a year or 2 of development and then you reach a decent AFL caliber level and then make smaller improvements after that.

• Darling was good in Year 1, hit AFL level in year 2
• Allen was good in Year 2, hit AFL level in year 3
• Kennedy got games at Carlton early on in a shit side but hit AFL level in year 3 at West Coast.

So in 3 years you will know what you have, and that will be a guy who deserves AFL games week in week out.
1x key forward & 1x ruck should all be on the shopping list along with everything else but we have the next 2 drafts to pick them up in anticipation for a 2025 peak club year.

Kennedy was in and out the side the first year at West Coast. He didn't really show a lot until his 2nd year here and his fourth year in the system.

 

[Rowan18]

Kennedy was in and out the side the first year at West Coast. He didn't really show a lot until his 2nd year here and his fourth year in the system.

His big break out was in 2011 when he kicked 11 against the Dogs. Became our mainstay forward from the point onwards. In hindsight, we were blessed with nearly 10 years of him playing at an A grade level.

 

[dinnaz]

Kennedy was in and out the side the first year at West Coast. He didn't really show a lot until his 2nd year here and his fourth year in the system.

We made him earn his spot 100% but then played pretty much all the second half of the year that I can remember.
Still he averaged a goal a game which is AFL standard, 6.6 marks which is elite, and 12.7 disposals which is above average.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

No ones expecting every player on a list of 42-45 to be a star…
Just a good competent player… it shouldn’t take 8 years to see nelson is crap, years of delisting and re rooking Ah Chee to see he isnt upto it, 6 years of Waterman years being a Headless chook on ground …. We hold onto blokes for far to long when they actually do nothing for our list at all.

We as a club take way to long to see what a player has got, in fact the AFL as a system take way to long.
What you see with Duggan, Petch, Nelson, Cole, Waterman etc etc is what it is, it won't get any better and has not got better since the second year they played. They are not that good. They can get a game but those thinking they might become A Graders are just in fantasy land.
But it is taking our club 5 years to find out what any sensible footy person knows after 1-2 years. Some I can tell even sooner. Don't need 50 games to find out.
Just wasting time and money on many players in my opinion.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Tell me how you're going to get rid of contracted players?
Especially WA boys like Sheed.

Well it can be achieved, you just tell Dom we are going to trade you like it or not. If you say no then you will play WAFL all year. We are moving on and we don't see you in our plans as a midfielder. Thank you for your service.
I know it would never happen though.

 

[Tugga27]

First step is say unless you can show me an intent to tackle, two way running and improve your disposal your future is wafl football.. your a break glass in case of emergency option behind any kid we recruit who can play your roll..

You can either look for a trade or we will pay you out in a settlement

They all have egos and will want to play afl..

I've got no dramas with reading players the riot act, but to suggest sacking them and paying out 3 years worth of salary is ridiculous.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I've got no dramas with reading players the riot act, but to suggest sacking them and paying out 3 years worth of salary is ridiculous.

Yes and thats what poor old coaches get left with, over paid players who can't perform to the level they are paid and you have no choice but to play them.
Worst system in the world. Some coaches must go home and cry with what they have on their list.

 

[Cesoir]

Do we even melt better than the Freo board.

**** off, you guys are amateurs!

 

[Chump Change]

No it's not. We actually started rebuilding in 2017 and have already re-done most of the forward line (Allen, Ryan, Rioli and various HFF like Petch, Jones etc). Darling should be around for a couple of years but we do need a second tall forward (Waterman doesn't look like he gets there).

Backline is pretty stocked too with players that have years left (Barrass, Edwards, Duggan, Cole, Witho) but we could do with an attacking HBF. We have maybe drafted them already (Hough, Chesser?) but they need experience or it is the type of position we can trade for.

Midfield is the one that needs the work. Yeo, Sheed and Kelly are young enough to be in our next finals tilt, but we need a couple of young players to become future A Graders. We all hope a couple of bottom 4 finishes will allow that. Hopefully guys like Edwards and XON fill in the solid B grade roles (like Redden). Those are also positions that are easy to trade for.

All we need for the ruck is some solid citizens like Lycett and Vardy were. I suspect we already have them in Dixon and Strnadica.

In short, we actually have a lot of pieces already but need a couple of A grade mids and another KPF (unless one of the Williams comes on which is possible). It feel very similar to 2008-2010 in that we bottom for two years and pump games into a young midfield. Could easily see us bounce back for a year or two as our senior players have one last crack (Yeo, Kelly, Darling, Gov etc) supported by the young guys. Will probably then miss finals for a year or two when they retire.

Sydney looks to be walking this path well. They did two years in the bottom 4 and were regenerating their list with guys like Heemy and Mills before that (bloody academy cheats).

lol.

 

[Goroyals22]

I've got no dramas with reading players the riot act, but to suggest sacking them and paying out 3 years worth of salary is ridiculous.

No, you negotiate a payout then they can find their own club.. you wont end up having to pay the three years… if they wont take the settlement no worries. Enjoy 3 years wasting your career in the wafl but they must still fulfil all training and other requirements of the afl program.

 

[Goroyals22]

We as a club take way to long to see what a player has got, in fact the AFL as a system take way to long.
What you see with Duggan, Petch, Nelson, Cole, Waterman etc etc is what it is, it won't get any better and has not got better since the second year they played. They are not that good. They can get a game but those thinking they might become A Graders are just in fantasy land.
But it is taking our club 5 years to find out what any sensible footy person knows after 1-2 years. Some I can tell even sooner. Don't need 50 games to find out.
Just wasting time and money on many players in my opinion.

Ive got no problem with Cole or Duggan.. at least they can be relied upon generally and they have found roles for themselves at the level… the other three however have no role and are lost cloggers. Nothing more nothing less. Petch if he actually had the confidence in himself could be a good player but let someone else see if they can do it, we have wasted enough time on him.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Petch is lazy but probably wouldn't be at another club or they would just delist him there. Thinking about what Simpson has done to the club makes me feel like I need to vomit. Accepting pathetic efforts by players because of what they produced multiple years ago. What sort of organisation relies on employees to perform when they haven't done it in a few years?

 

[Tugga27]

No, you negotiate a payout then they can find their own club.. you wont end up having to pay the three years… if they wont take the settlement no worries. Enjoy 3 years wasting your career in the wafl but they must still fulfil all training and other requirements of the afl program.

Still doesn't make sense to me.

Why would someone like Sheed take a reduced amount?

Most players would back themselves in.
We're talking about players who can't play the game.
Not players like Brayshaw and Ainsworth.

He was a bee's dick away from a Norm Smith for crying out loud.
And why would you tell someone they were going to spend the rest of their career in the seconds?
Do you think that will get the best out of them?

Sheeds best is obviously good enough to play AFL.
You tell him what he needs to do to get back in the side.
If he can't do it, fair enough but it's stupid to tell players that they are not going to get back in the side for the next 3 years.

 

[southcoast]

I think they cut too deep when the soft cap was reduced.

Could also be WCE over paid too many ‘support staff’ and the cuts were deep because of a bloated salary.

Maybe more for slightly less could be an option.

Noting - got NFI how many and what we pay but other clubs seem to have ‘coped’ by and large.

 

[WCErevival]

Sheed will be fine once he goes back to being a support mid and not the big cheese.

 

[Goroyals22]

Petch is lazy but probably wouldn't be at another club or they would just delist him there. Thinking about what Simpson has done to the club makes me feel like I need to vomit. Accepting pathetic efforts by players because of what they produced multiple years ago. What sort of organisation relies on employees to perform when they haven't done it in a few years?

I dont want to say as I might incriminate myself

 

[Avalor]

We have been a very stable club for a long time, and it served us well, but now, it is time for the big broom. Change is needed from top to bottom, asap. There's no growth without change, is the right mindset to hang our hat on now.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Ive got no problem with Cole or Duggan.. at least they can be relied upon generally and they have found roles for themselves at the level… the other three however have no role and are lost cloggers. Nothing more nothing less. Petch if he actually had the confidence in himself could be a good player but let someone else see if they can do it, we have wasted enough time on him.

Petch still looks lost at times. I wonder if we're not better giving him a running role of half back.
We need more drive/speed down there.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

If i was in charge of the clean out, and accepting that 10 players is probably the max that you can realistically clear in a year now, and also accepting that creating cap space for a possible future free agency acquisition is fairly critical, i would move on the following players.

Kennedy and Hurn will obviously just retire of their own accord
I would give Shuey, Redden and Cripps a tap on the shoulder and tell them to retire too
Tell Gaff, Cole and Duggan to look for opportunities elsewhere. If they find another club that wants to take them on we will make sure they get there.
Delist West and O'Neil. It is obvious that they are not up to AFL standard. If either was at another club we wouldn't take them if they were offered for free. The only reason they are still on our list is the sunk cost fallacy. Especially with O'Neil.

In saying this i am unaware of the contract specifics of the particular players. This is an ideal world scenario from my point of view. Obviously if they are contracted and refuse to go that then creates a problem. But we should try and move them on.

I figure we would save maybe 2 million a year on our cap if we moved these guys on. Shuey being Captain must be on at least 800k. If not more. Gaff is on 800 - 900k. We will probably have to pay some of his salary to get rid of him, but even then we can still maybe save 500k. I have no idea what the other experienced players (Kennedy, Hurn, Redden, Cripps, Cole and Duggan) are on. At a guess i am going to say an average of 350 - 400k each and probably 200 - 250k more than a first year player. So thats how i figure roughly 2 million a year in savings if we moved them all on. If other people who know more about the contract specifics and likely pay of the players in question than me disagree then feel free to correct me. This is just my off the cuff opinion of where i would start the clean out.