List clean out is urgently needed

[greatwhiteshark]

Petch still looks lost at times. I wonder if we're not better giving him a running role of half back.
We need more drive/speed down there.

Everyone still trying to find Petch a role. Year 6 as an AFL listed player and he found it 13 times in the WAFL. He can’t play guys, move on.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Everyone still trying to find Petch a role. Year 6 as an AFL listed player and he found it 13 times in the WAFL. He can’t play guys, move on.

Fair enough but I don't think he's ever been tried in the back half...Much easier to read if you're not a football mind first.
Maybe clutching straws but given the season and list, we could do worse.

I'd also like to see Ryan off the back of square as the creative first receival. Take it as you will I suppose.

 

[dinnaz]

Everyone still trying to find Petch a role. Year 6 as an AFL listed player and he found it 13 times in the WAFL. He can’t play guys, move on.

Playing as a small fwd that's about par- especially as the ball never went down there. He provides a little bit of x-factor with his pace though he should terrorize opposition defenders a lot more.
His problem is that he hasn't had any significant improvements in his game. He's just about the same level as in 2019. 100% would try him off half back and get the ball in his hands.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Playing as a small fwd that's about par- especially as the ball never went down there. He provides a little bit of x-factor with his pace though he should terrorize opposition defenders a lot more.
His problem is that he hasn't had any significant improvements in his game. He's just about the same level as in 2019. 100% would try him off half back and get the ball in his hands.

I agree that a backline role could help, always good for lazy forwards to learn their craft in the backline.

 

[ziad]

Everyone still trying to find Petch a role. Year 6 as an AFL listed player and he found it 13 times in the WAFL. He can’t play guys, move on.

Petch is ironic- part of our 10 year plan. Was evidently quiet in the Beagles game. He is a player we dont miss when out and dose nothing other than the very occasional over the back goal when in. Adds no forward pressure. To this end, he dosent use his pace defensively and is a weak tackler.

The panel says gonski

 

[dinnaz]

I agree that a backline role could help, always good for lazy forwards to learn their craft in the backline.

If the last 20 years of footy have taught us anything it's that we should play forwards fwd. We tend to rotate guys through there that don't have natural goal kicking ability and general positioning nous defensively & offensively.

 

[ArdentEagle]

I agree that a backline role could help, always good for lazy forwards to learn their craft in the backline.

Not just being lazy, some need help to read the game. It's the logical step given the team list.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Not just being lazy, some need help to read the game. It's the logical step given the team list.

The logical step is delist.

 

[Boohemian]

Damn, we suck again and can't even just blame it all on Priddis.

 

[MrWoollie]

Damn, we suck again and can't even just blame it all on Priddis.

Yes we can.

It's his legacy. It's what he left us, what he passed on. He invented this game plan which dictated who we recruited which dictates where we are now at.

If it's not his fault, it must be Mastens.

 

[dinnaz]

Yes we can.

It's his legacy. It's what he left us, what he passed on. He invented this game plan which dictated who we recruited which dictates where we are now at.

If it's not his fault, it must be Mastens.

Explains a lot- They gave our team jabs of Masten mojo instead of covid

 

[ArdentEagle]

The logical step is delist.

Ziad agrees with you.....................

 

[Scotland]

Playing as a small fwd that's about par- especially as the ball never went down there. He provides a little bit of x-factor with his pace though he should terrorize opposition defenders a lot more.
His problem is that he hasn't had any significant improvements in his game. He's just about the same level as in 2019. 100% would try him off half back and get the ball in his hands.

As an AFL listed player that has done 5 pre-seasons he should be able to play a forward/wing role and find it 20 times at WAFL level without breaking a sweat. If none of his inside 50s are marked or he kicks 2.5 so be it.

Petruccelle has elite pace by AFL standards let alone WAFL standards. He should dominate at WAFL level. His career high is 18 touches. If the ball is not going into the forward 50 then go and ****ing get it.

Mark LeCras established himself in the 22 in 2007 when he was 21 years old. Prior to that he was inconsistent at AFL level but knocked the door off its hinges playing in the WAFL. In one game he had 35 touche 8 marks and kicked 7.6. Next game (after a couple at AFL level) 29 touches 11 marks 8 goals. Whipping boy Rowan Jones was dropped once in 2006. Went back and picked up where left off from 2005 and had a lazy 40 touches.

Young Erasmus from Freo got dropped to the WAFL and had 34 touches vs West Perth. He's a first year player. Meanwhile we are talking about bringing back SPS who has been in the system for 6 years and managed 33 touches - in two weeks. If we're expecting players to get 10 or 15 touches at WAFL level and for that form to translate to AFL level we are kidding ourselves. Can see why the senior players look complacent.

 

[ziad]

As an AFL listed player that has done 5 pre-seasons he should be able to play a forward/wing role and find it 20 times at WAFL level without breaking a sweat. If none of his inside 50s are marked or he kicks 2.5 so be it.

Petruccelle has elite pace by AFL standards let alone WAFL standards. He should dominate at WAFL level. His career high is 18 touches. If the ball is not going into the forward 50 then go and ******* get it.

Mark LeCras established himself in the 22 in 2007 when he was 21 years old. Prior to that he was inconsistent at AFL level but knocked the door off its hinges playing in the WAFL. In one game he had 35 touche 8 marks and kicked 7.6. Next game (after a couple at AFL level) 29 touches 11 marks 8 goals. Whipping boy Rowan Jones was dropped once in 2006. Went back and picked up where left off from 2005 and had a lazy 40 touches.

Young Erasmus from Freo got dropped to the WAFL and had 34 touches vs West Perth. He's a first year player. Meanwhile we are talking about bringing back SPS who has been in the system for 6 years and managed 33 touches - in two weeks. If we're expecting players to get 10 or 15 touches at WAFL level and for that form to translate to AFL level we are kidding ourselves. Can see why the senior players look complacent.

Like so many on our list he isnt a good WAFL player. Why thas he still got a list spot is the real question.

 

[dinnaz]

As an AFL listed player that has done 5 pre-seasons he should be able to play a forward/wing role and find it 20 times at WAFL level without breaking a sweat. If none of his inside 50s are marked or he kicks 2.5 so be it.

Petruccelle has elite pace by AFL standards let alone WAFL standards. He should dominate at WAFL level. His career high is 18 touches. If the ball is not going into the forward 50 then go and ******* get it.

Mark LeCras established himself in the 22 in 2007 when he was 21 years old. Prior to that he was inconsistent at AFL level but knocked the door off its hinges playing in the WAFL. In one game he had 35 touche 8 marks and kicked 7.6. Next game (after a couple at AFL level) 29 touches 11 marks 8 goals. Whipping boy Rowan Jones was dropped once in 2006. Went back and picked up where left off from 2005 and had a lazy 40 touches.

Young Erasmus from Freo got dropped to the WAFL and had 34 touches vs West Perth. He's a first year player. Meanwhile we are talking about bringing back SPS who has been in the system for 6 years and managed 33 touches - in two weeks. If we're expecting players to get 10 or 15 touches at WAFL level and for that form to translate to AFL level we are kidding ourselves. Can see why the senior players look complacent.

100% agree, but these guys were stars. Lecras was a steal at #37. I see no point in having a player in the 2's who cant be in the bests regularly at that level after 2 or 3 years in the system.
Petruccelle was more an attributes based selection than star player and a hope he could develop and use his pace and leap. At #38 he's not a bust especially if you look at the other players in that draft.
If he can play AFL to an acceptable level then that's 1 less spot we need to fill. The options are Langdon who is worse & Winder who looks like he wont make it. I'd definitely throw a rookie pick at a pressure fwd or two in the upcoming drafts.

 

[Scotland]

100% agree, but these guys were stars. Lecras was a steal at #37. I see no point in having a player in the 2's who cant be in the bests regularly at that level after 2 or 3 years in the system.
Petruccelle was more an attributes based selection than star player and a hope he could develop and use his pace and leap. At #38 he's not a bust especially if you look at the other players in that draft.
If he can play AFL to an acceptable level then that's 1 less spot we need to fill. The options are Langdon who is worse & Winder who looks like he wont make it. I'd definitely throw a rookie pick at a pressure fwd or two in the upcoming drafts.

LeCras was a star, but not at 21. He was also a 10-15 disposal, 2 goal a game player at AFL level overall. A function of his size, role and the step up to AFL level. He had some standout games but he didn't come in and have 30 touches and kick 8.

RoJo was a career whipping boy. If you go back to 'Changes for Rd X' threads from 2006 and 2007 you'll see his name most weeks. He was an average AFL player at best but had elite endurance which is why he creamed it at WAFL level. I think he had 50 touches in a game or close to it.

I was bullish about Petruccelle because of his pace but he doesn't really even do what we need him to at AFL level at WAFL level. Or maybe he does what the coaches want him to.

 

[Rowan18]

If i was in charge of the clean out, and accepting that 10 players is probably the max that you can realistically clear in a year now, and also accepting that creating cap space for a possible future free agency acquisition is fairly critical, i would move on the following players.

Kennedy and Hurn will obviously just retire of their own accord
I would give Shuey, Redden and Cripps a tap on the shoulder and tell them to retire too
Tell Gaff, Cole and Duggan to look for opportunities elsewhere. If they find another club that wants to take them on we will make sure they get there.
Delist West and O'Neil. It is obvious that they are not up to AFL standard. If either was at another club we wouldn't take them if they were offered for free. The only reason they are still on our list is the sunk cost fallacy. Especially with O'Neil.

In saying this i am unaware of the contract specifics of the particular players. This is an ideal world scenario from my point of view. Obviously if they are contracted and refuse to go that then creates a problem. But we should try and move them on.

I figure we would save maybe 2 million a year on our cap if we moved these guys on. Shuey being Captain must be on at least 800k. If not more. Gaff is on 800 - 900k. We will probably have to pay some of his salary to get rid of him, but even then we can still maybe save 500k. I have no idea what the other experienced players (Kennedy, Hurn, Redden, Cripps, Cole and Duggan) are on. At a guess i am going to say an average of 350 - 400k each and probably 200 - 250k more than a first year player. So thats how i figure roughly 2 million a year in savings if we moved them all on. If other people who know more about the contract specifics and likely pay of the players in question than me disagree then feel free to correct me. This is just my off the cuff opinion of where i would start the clean out.

You can't clear out 10 players from the senior list in an offseason - where do the replacements come from? The draft is pretty well done by the end of the third round (even then, 3rd round picks usually only come good for small forwards, KPD or a role player like Nelson). That gives you 3 selections a year unless you trade down for multiple picks or trade players away (and no, fringe players or those over 30 aren't getting you anything higher than a third rounder).

You can clear out rookies and get other rookies, no worries.

We are guaranteed to lose Hurn and JK this year, probably lose some out of Redden, Shuey and Nic Nat. That's already 3 or 4, which should cover most of our draft selections.

Smart trades for fringe best 22 players like Witho and SPS are another way to get some depth in, with a reasonable chance they fill the 22. That might allow us to cut a couple more senior players.

At most, we can lose 5 or 6 senior players this year.

 

[dinnaz]

LeCras was a star, but not at 21. He was also a 10-15 disposal, 2 goal a game player at AFL level overall. A function of his size, role and the step up to AFL level. He had some standout games but he didn't come in and have 30 touches and kick 8.

RoJo was a career whipping boy. If you go back to 'Changes for Rd X' threads from 2006 and 2007 you'll see his name most weeks. He was an average AFL player at best but had elite endurance which is why he creamed it at WAFL level. I think he had 50 touches in a game or close to it.

I was bullish about Petruccelle because of his pace but he doesn't really even do what we need him to at AFL level at WAFL level. Or maybe he does what the coaches want him to.

LeCras was always good, kicked 5 against the tigers at the MCG in his 5th game at age 20.
He could play up the ground to the wings and a little onball as well. So wouldn't play the exact same role at AFL as he was utilised to win the WAFL game on that day. For a general fwd those are great numbers over a long time.

Just like the Priddis thread eh, shows that the peons cant see the cannot see the forest for the trees. Jones couldn't kick at comical levels which is why I loved him but put in the hard work and was so reliable to work for the team.

Petrucelle is no where as valuable as those premiership heroes, needs to show a lot more consistency otherwise hes gone in a couple of years. I do think the coaches can throw the magnets around a bit this year. See if he can play wing or half back.

 

[VinegarStrokes]

Can definately shuffle 5-7 main list spots (and most/all of the rookie list) for the next 2-3 years. Fringe best 22 players exist in the state leagues and will be delisted by other teams. We found Naish and Dixon this year which we wouldnt usually as we are too conservative. Rioli, Ryan and Kelly were once in these positions.

Majority of these players wont work out but its likely a few will be ok. Far less likely that Langdon and O'Neill become any more competent after being moved to the rookie list or the physio's son who gets rookie listed due to 'boys club and credits in staff bank'. Just keep shuffling through multiple players for a few years. Give these players 1 year and move onto the next if they arent up to it. If we delist a decent player too early so be it.

 

[dinnaz]

Can definately shuffle 5-7 main list spots (and most/all of the rookie list) for the next 2-3 years. Fringe best 22 players exist in the state leagues and will be delisted by other teams. We found Naish and Dixon this year which we wouldnt usually as we are too conservative.

Naish/Dixon are surely a result of in the now thinking. You can see with the mid season draft over the last few years that all recruiters are taking 19-20 yr old players rather than guys older who are tearing up the reserves.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

You can't clear out 10 players from the senior list in an offseason - where do the replacements come from? The draft is pretty well done by the end of the third round (even then, 3rd round picks usually only come good for small forwards, KPD or a role player like Nelson). That gives you 3 selections a year unless you trade down for multiple picks or trade players away (and no, fringe players or those over 30 aren't getting you anything higher than a third rounder).

You can clear out rookies and get other rookies, no worries.

We are guaranteed to lose Hurn and JK this year, probably lose some out of Redden, Shuey and Nic Nat. That's already 3 or 4, which should cover most of our draft selections.

Smart trades for fringe best 22 players like Witho and SPS are another way to get some depth in, with a reasonable chance they fill the 22. That might allow us to cut a couple more senior players.

At most, we can lose 5 or 6 senior players this year.

I understand what you are saying. But thats what a list clean out means. Our list and the attitude it has to chasing and tacking and applying pressure is so awful now that turning over 5 players a year from a list of 40 - 45 or whatever it is now means being in the bottom 4 for the next 5 years including a couple of spoons. We need to be more radical than 5 list changes per year. I think we could replace the likes of Duggan, Cole, Gaff and Cripps with the next best mid aged player from WAFL or SANFL through the PSD or Rookie Draft and it would not affect overall team performance one iota and they would cost 30% as much in the cap. I think a total clean out is required, not a gentle rebuild.

If eagles management thinks they can go into next season with the same list bar 5 changes and the same coaching panel and get supporters to have a positive hopeful attitude towards 2023 and shell out $800 for a membership they are off with the fairies.

 

[VinegarStrokes]

Being delisted can sometimes be the motivation a player needs to reach some of their potential, Naish and Dixon may be two these types. Most of the time these players wont make which is why you need to cycle through the bottom of your main list and your rookie list ruthlessly, particulatly when you are rebuilding.

 

[dinnaz]

I understand what you are saying. But thats what a list clean out means. Our list and the attitude it has to chasing and tacking and applying pressure is so awful now that turning over 5 players a year from a list of 40 - 45 or whatever it is now means being in the bottom 4 for the next 5 years including a couple of spoons. We need to be more radical than 5 list changes per year. I think we could replace the likes of Duggan, Cole, Gaff and Cripps with the next best mid aged player from WAFL or SANFL through the PSD or Rookie Draft and it would not affect overall team performance one iota and they would cost 30% as much in the cap. I think a total clean out is required, not a gentle rebuild.

If eagles management thinks they can go into next season with the same list bar 5 changes and the same coaching panel and get supporters to have a positive hopeful attitude towards 2023 and shell out $800 for a membership they are off with the fairies.

I think y'all underestimating some players. Gaff is terrific, Duggan is so solid and can go to another level and will be around for a long time yet.
Cole and Cripps are a tier down but I there aren't any better players going around at WAFL level for their positions. They're the kind of guys who get replaced by a fresh draftee after a couple of years- otherwise they are better than anyone playing 2's but never stars.
Id be cutting the guys who are in and out of the team, barely crack a game or cant get on the field first.
Foley, Rotham, Jamieson, Trew, Williams, Williams, O'Neill, Waterman at this stage wouldn't affect our best 22 much.

The only guys I would trade in on big dollars would be some one equivalent to Sam Walsh, Bailey Smith. And its probably better value to take those picks to the draft. There arent any FA realistically on the market to splash cash on so theres no need for saving dollars in the cap.

 

[Eagle Wrath]

I would try and trade Gaff, Duggan and Darling if anyone wants them. Might get something for them. Delist at end of year Redden, Hurn, Nic Nat, Langdon from the main team.

50/50 delist - O'nell, Cole, L Edwards,

Sad thing is, club wont consider trading any player unless they ask.

 

[dinnaz]

I would try and trade Gaff, Duggan and Darling if anyone wants them. Might get something for them. Delist at end of year Redden, Hurn, Nic Nat, Langdon from the main team.

50/50 delist - O'nell, Cole, L Edwards,

Sad thing is, club wont consider trading any player unless they ask.

Langdon is contracted, as is Cole and O'neill.

Nic Nat has a few years left I reckon and who would we play in the ruck if he's gone? Same as Gaff and Darling they're better than anyone else we will play for the next 3 or 4 years. I doubt we would get much in return.