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Gaff was terrific. He has always been a player who was elite at some things and below average at others. If he's not clocking up k's and gaining metres he doesn't offer much to the side.

If we could move on from the remainder of Gaff's contract for a second round pick that would be a smart list management decision. And that is no reflection on his 200+ game contribution to the club.

Contracted until the end of 2022 (19) :
  • Luke Shuey (2/6/90) - Signed a 4 year extension (2019,2020,2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2018 in June 2017.
  • Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2020,2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2019 in November 2018.
  • Willie Rioli (4/6/95) - Signed a 2 year extension (2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2020 in May 2019
  • Nic Naitanui (4/5/90) - Signed 3 year extension (2020,2021,2022) in June 2019.
  • Bailey Williams (17/4/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2020 in August 2019
  • Alex Witherden (10/9/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2021,2022,) in November 2020*
  • Isiah Winder (16/05/02) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2020
  • Jackson Nelson (15/3/96) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • (R) Zane Trew (26/4/02)- Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • Jack Redden (9/12/90) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in September 2021
  • (R) Jamaine Jones (29/9/98) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) as a rookie in October 2021
  • (R) Connor West (7/5/99) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) as a rookie in October 2021
  • Shannon Hurn (4/9/87) – Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in November 2021
  • Josh Kennedy (25/8/87) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in November 2021
  • (R) Hugh Dixon (26/2/99) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Tom Joyce (7/3/00) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Patrick Naish (15/1/99) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Luke Strnadica (1/1/98) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022

I reckon the bolded are gone and then we'll see from there. We do still need to pay 95% of the cap so you can't turn over half the list at a time.
 
dinnaz said:
Langdon is contracted, as is Cole and O'neill.:(

Nic Nat has a few years left I reckon and who would we play in the ruck if he's gone? Same as Gaff and Darling they're better than anyone else we will play for the next 3 or 4 years. I doubt we would get much in return.
Click to expand...
Depends if we want to look long term. Nic Nat isnt fit enough now to be 3 or 4 years unless he does something drastic. Gaff is just a seagul picking up easy possessions with no defense. Darling is Darling. Ok one week and bad for the next 2.

Persist with Strndica and Williams for ruck and get Jamieson on the Nic Nat/McGovern diet to gain a few Kg's. And recruit in another ruck at end of year.

We are going to need to be more brutal than we usually are.
It's all a moot point anyway. Simmo will stick with them all and just continue to bring in and out of the team Waterman, Langdon, JJ, O'neill
 
Eagle Wrath said:
I would try and trade Gaff, Duggan and Darling if anyone wants them. Might get something for them. Delist at end of year Redden, Hurn, Nic Nat, Langdon from the main team.

50/50 delist - O'nell, Cole, L Edwards,

Sad thing is, club wont consider trading any player unless they ask.
Click to expand...
No way delist NN.
He's still really important to us.

Most clubs don't try and trade contracted players.
Look at what happened when Collingwood did.
The arse fell out of them.

Strndica and Williams aren't even good enough to carries Nic's bags and you want to give him away.
Madness.
 

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Eagle Wrath said:
Depends if we want to look long term. Nic Nat isnt fit enough now to be 3 or 4 years unless he does something drastic. Gaff is just a seagul picking up easy possessions with no defense. Darling is Darling. Ok one week and bad for the next 2.

Persist with Strndica and Williams for ruck and get Jamieson on the Nic Nat/McGovern diet to gain a few Kg's. And recruit in another ruck at end of year.

We are going to need to be more brutal than we usually are.
It's all a moot point anyway. Simmo will stick with them all and just continue to bring in and out of the team Waterman, Langdon, JJ, O'neill
Click to expand...
There's intangibles as well. If we pick up a ruckman this year they can learn from nic nat. Plus also work into league games playing a 50% ruck load for a season.

Jamieson was quite athletic but seems to have lost it bulking up already. Would need to get from 80kg to 100kg to be any use as a ruck. Besides we play him as a key defender anyway. I think we have seen enough of him to move on to someone new. Strndica looks a good fill in for a few years until we get hands on our next multiple All Australian legend ;)
 
Scotland said:
As an AFL listed player that has done 5 pre-seasons he should be able to play a forward/wing role and find it 20 times at WAFL level without breaking a sweat. If none of his inside 50s are marked or he kicks 2.5 so be it.

Petruccelle has elite pace by AFL standards let alone WAFL standards. He should dominate at WAFL level. His career high is 18 touches. If the ball is not going into the forward 50 then go and ******* get it.

Mark LeCras established himself in the 22 in 2007 when he was 21 years old. Prior to that he was inconsistent at AFL level but knocked the door off its hinges playing in the WAFL. In one game he had 35 touche 8 marks and kicked 7.6. Next game (after a couple at AFL level) 29 touches 11 marks 8 goals. Whipping boy Rowan Jones was dropped once in 2006. Went back and picked up where left off from 2005 and had a lazy 40 touches.

Young Erasmus from Freo got dropped to the WAFL and had 34 touches vs West Perth. He's a first year player. Meanwhile we are talking about bringing back SPS who has been in the system for 6 years and managed 33 touches - in two weeks. If we're expecting players to get 10 or 15 touches at WAFL level and for that form to translate to AFL level we are kidding ourselves. Can see why the senior players look complacent.
Click to expand...
In a way you can see why simmo is backing the established players because there is literally NOTHING banging down the door forcing selection headaches.
 
I’d personally give Nic Nat the option to name his club if he wants to go chase that flag and/or enhance his media career.

If hypothetically he nominates the dogs and we can get say pick 13 for NN and our pick 20, I’ll say that’s a win-win for all involved.

Otherwise he stays with us on lesser money as he still has a lot to offer.
 
KERRPOW said:
In a way you can see why simmo is backing the established players because there is literally NOTHING banging down the door forcing selection headaches.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely there. It is sad but a half fit kelly is mile ahead of most of our list for example. JD has been pitiful but is working hard and improving with each run. He is light years ahead of waterman for example

The clubs management has delivered many years of pitiful tallent identification and list management. Recently we have resorted to trading in the left overs of other clubs - and sadly most get a game well ahead of what we have.
 
Deplorable trumpster said:
Given how weak out midfield is, and how weak our back up rucks are, i would be loathe to trade out or pension off Natanui before we have to.
Click to expand...
Ha I dont think Nic will leabve or the club would think of trading him for many reasons.

But for fun - remember Sydney use us as their ruck super store and Nic was born in western Sydney where there is a huge islander population. AFL marketing department where are you?
 
Scotland said:
As an AFL listed player that has done 5 pre-seasons he should be able to play a forward/wing role and find it 20 times at WAFL level without breaking a sweat. If none of his inside 50s are marked or he kicks 2.5 so be it.

Petruccelle has elite pace by AFL standards let alone WAFL standards. He should dominate at WAFL level. His career high is 18 touches. If the ball is not going into the forward 50 then go and ******* get it.

Mark LeCras established himself in the 22 in 2007 when he was 21 years old. Prior to that he was inconsistent at AFL level but knocked the door off its hinges playing in the WAFL. In one game he had 35 touche 8 marks and kicked 7.6. Next game (after a couple at AFL level) 29 touches 11 marks 8 goals. Whipping boy Rowan Jones was dropped once in 2006. Went back and picked up where left off from 2005 and had a lazy 40 touches.

Young Erasmus from Freo got dropped to the WAFL and had 34 touches vs West Perth. He's a first year player. Meanwhile we are talking about bringing back SPS who has been in the system for 6 years and managed 33 touches - in two weeks. If we're expecting players to get 10 or 15 touches at WAFL level and for that form to translate to AFL level we are kidding ourselves. Can see why the senior players look complacent.
Click to expand...
This is just not how it works though.

Erasmus is a top 10 pick, Petch was a speculative pick who is a fringe player (at best).

People are talking about why we "still have a fringe player on our list" and "why haven't we delisted him?". But you can't delist a fringe player and draft in a top 5 pick... without having a top 5 pick.

The ONLY way you can compete for a flag is if your top players are as good, if not better that the other flag contenders. And when you have those players, guess what happens? Either the Petrocelli's of the world step up and play career best football to get one of the last few spots in the side, or some other fringe player does it.

Spuds or fringe players have little to do with anything. Everything is about the top end and this is why Priddis copped a lot of criticism - we were going head to head with the other team's best and we were trundling out Priddis.

Kennedy is retiring. Shuey has soft tissue issues. Even if Yeo returns to his best, he, Kelly, Sheed, Gaff are just not going to be anywhere near a top 4 midfield....

Therefore we can't compete for a flag.....

Therefore we have to rebuild via the draft (because you only trade when you're ready to bring in the final missing jigsaw pieces).....

So Petch and Watermelon etc have f'all to do with f'all.
 
Scotland said:
Gaff was terrific. He has always been a player who was elite at some things and below average at others. If he's not clocking up k's and gaining metres he doesn't offer much to the side.

If we could move on from the remainder of Gaff's contract for a second round pick that would be a smart list management decision. And that is no reflection on his 200+ game contribution to the club.

Contracted until the end of 2022 (19) :
  • Luke Shuey (2/6/90) - Signed a 4 year extension (2019,2020,2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2018 in June 2017.
  • Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2020,2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2019 in November 2018.
  • Willie Rioli (4/6/95) - Signed a 2 year extension (2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2020 in May 2019
  • Nic Naitanui (4/5/90) - Signed 3 year extension (2020,2021,2022) in June 2019.
  • Bailey Williams (17/4/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2021,2022) on an existing contract set to expire 2020 in August 2019
  • Alex Witherden (10/9/98) - Signed a 2 year contract (2021,2022,) in November 2020*
  • Isiah Winder (16/05/02) - Automatic 2 year contract when drafted in December 2020
  • Jackson Nelson (15/3/96) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • (R) Zane Trew (26/4/02)- Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in May 2021*
  • Jack Redden (9/12/90) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in September 2021
  • (R) Jamaine Jones (29/9/98) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) as a rookie in October 2021
  • (R) Connor West (7/5/99) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) as a rookie in October 2021
  • Shannon Hurn (4/9/87) – Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in November 2021
  • Josh Kennedy (25/8/87) - Signed a 1 year extension (2022) in November 2021
  • (R) Hugh Dixon (26/2/99) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Tom Joyce (7/3/00) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Patrick Naish (15/1/99) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022
  • (R) - Luke Strnadica (1/1/98) - signed as a SSP selection in March 2022

I reckon the bolded are gone and then we'll see from there. We do still need to pay 95% of the cap so you can't turn over half the list at a time.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see us, just for once turn over 1 or 2 big name players. To do that you sort of have to be open for business (i.e. everyone available) and it always seems to get back to the players.

I'm pretty much open to trading anyone but OA and Chesser, and probably Shuey gets a pass because he is club captain. I'd rather take a punt on a second rounder than a player who will play out 2-4 years when we're not in a flag window. Also open to paying a portion of a contract.

How you do that without pissing off the players, I don't know. I don't even know if we have anyone that any other club wants. And players generally don't want to leave our club (a good thing).
 

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KERRPOW said:
In a way you can see why simmo is backing the established players because there is literally NOTHING banging down the door forcing selection headaches.
Click to expand...
Yep. Unfortunately coaches have their jobs on the line so they can't think to themselves, "you know what, we're just not going to cut it with our top end and our bottom end are WAFL level. Let's go with the WAFL level and target some draft picks".

But because of injury, non-full pre-seasons, and covid, that's what we're doing. A blessing in disguise.
 
I know it's the whole point of an internet forum to speculate on talk about things we know nothing about. But people are ragging on players without knowing all the details.

For example...

IMHO, with the attributes he has, Jack Petruccelle should be pushing for a midfield slot. He has blistering pace and he has a good size. And he's coming up to 50 games, which is around the time that mid-sized players should be establishing themselves. Personally, I always saw his time in the forward line as about development. He just doesn't have the skills or goal sense of the likes of Rioli, Ryan or Cripps to be a permenant forward. So I figured he gets played as a forward as he develops his tank to spend more time on-ball.

And NOW is the time he should be doing that. Because he's reportedly had a cracking pre-season, after recovering from injuries.

But we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Perhaps the club reports of his good pre-season were overstated and he doesn't have the tank. Maybe he's not working hard enough. The club will KNOW the things, because of the metrics they maintain. Alternatively, they may continue to see him as a forward and have set him targets to kick more goals.

It's difficult to look at a player's output on the field, and know whether they are performing or not performing... because we don't know whether they are actually hitting their KPIs. Even a full-forward, whose sole purpose is to kick goals... might look like a complete bust because the midfield is giving them crappy delivery.

This is a long, round-a-bout way of saying... are some of the whipping boys in this thread really duds? Or is it the coaches and development staff?
 
Bob Fossil said:
Do we even melt better than the Freo board.

Surely we all knew this season (and a couple more like it) were coming. We chased another flag/s, it didn't work out and we now have some lean years to endure.

IMO, 2023 will be a dead cat bounce year if the list stays fit as there is still some quality there, maybe some very amazing recruiting can see us it a position to launch again in three seasons?

Am always amazed that people think we can just trade contracted players....especially ones from WA with multiple years left.

Lets focus on the good times we had and changing the song.
Click to expand...
Gaff stayed with us to win a flag, id be trying to get him back to melbourne for a pick upgrade.
 
Deplorable trumpster said:
Given how weak out midfield is, and how weak our back up rucks are, i would be loathe to trade out or pension off Natanui before we have to.
Click to expand...

Why?? This is what a ruthless club would do. even at his best he hasn’t gotten us anywhere near a flag, he’s seen off two capable ruckman possibly 3 because of the allowances we have to make in the team to play him.

He cant jump anymore, cant mark, cant move enough to get forward or back so the opposition runs off him, has to be on the bench because of his fitness at important times of the game and his second efforts have dropped off…..

Its time to move on from him
 
Tyberious Funk said:
I know it's the whole point of an internet forum to speculate on talk about things we know nothing about. But people are ragging on players without knowing all the details.

For example...

IMHO, with the attributes he has, Jack Petruccelle should be pushing for a midfield slot. He has blistering pace and he has a good size. And he's coming up to 50 games, which is around the time that mid-sized players should be establishing themselves. Personally, I always saw his time in the forward line as about development. He just doesn't have the skills or goal sense of the likes of Rioli, Ryan or Cripps to be a permenant forward. So I figured he gets played as a forward as he develops his tank to spend more time on-ball.

And NOW is the time he should be doing that. Because he's reportedly had a cracking pre-season, after recovering from injuries.

But we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. Perhaps the club reports of his good pre-season were overstated and he doesn't have the tank. Maybe he's not working hard enough. The club will KNOW the things, because of the metrics they maintain. Alternatively, they may continue to see him as a forward and have set him targets to kick more goals.

It's difficult to look at a player's output on the field, and know whether they are performing or not performing... because we don't know whether they are actually hitting their KPIs. Even a full-forward, whose sole purpose is to kick goals... might look like a complete bust because the midfield is giving them crappy delivery.

This is a long, round-a-bout way of saying... are some of the whipping boys in this thread really duds? Or is it the coaches and development staff?
Click to expand...
At training is in the fwd group so that's where he seems to be pigeonholed. Would be great to see him chucked in the middle or off half back at stages. Reasistically will only ever get something like 10 disposals a game wherever he is moved but if it allows him to burst away then that's great in my eyes.

We know he's only a fringe guy because he is playing WAFL when our senior team is garbage and there should be plenty of spots to grab.
 
ziad said:
The clubs management has delivered many years of pitiful tallent identification and list management. Recently we have resorted to trading in the left overs of other clubs - and sadly most get a game well ahead of what we have.
Click to expand...
Not only that, the leftovers and cast-offs from bottom 4 clubs.

SPS - is a midfielder. IF we actually play him there consistently, he MAY turn into a decent AFL player. But at the end of the day that would be a bonus of epic proportions as he was not much chop at Carlton.
Dixon - some here are treating him as the saviour free hit selection. But he actually hasn't shown himself to be a forward of note (1 goal in 4 games) or a decent second string ruck (23 hit outs in 4 games). If brutal, has played like someone not good enough to be a fringe player at Freo, let alone at a club that has ambition.
Strnadica - may become a decent backup ruck but at this point I'm not hopeful he'll be of AFL standard.

An occasional goal, a few ruck taps a game or 6-10 possessions a game are not the numbers you need from guys getting a regular game.
 
MrWoollie said:
Not only that, the leftovers and cast-offs from bottom 4 clubs.

SPS - is a midfielder. IF we actually play him there consistently, he MAY turn into a decent AFL player. But at the end of the day that would be a bonus of epic proportions as he was not much chop at Carlton.
Dixon - some here are treating him as the saviour free hit selection. But he actually hasn't shown himself to be a forward of note (1 goal in 4 games) or a decent second string ruck (23 hit outs in 4 games). If brutal, has played like someone not good enough to be a fringe player at Freo, let alone at a club that has ambition.
Strnadica - may become a decent backup ruck but at this point I'm not hopeful he'll be of AFL standard.

An occasional goal, a few ruck taps a game or 6-10 possessions a game are not the numbers you need from guys getting a regular game.
Click to expand...
The average AFL ruckmen go at something around 12 possessions, 0.5 goals, 20 hitouts a game. Strnadica can probably get there so is looking likely as an adequate fill in until someone better comes along.
 
dinnaz said:
At training is in the fwd group so that's where he seems to be pigeonholed. Would be great to see him chucked in the middle or off half back at stages. Reasistically will only ever get something like 10 disposals a game wherever he is moved but if it allows him to burst away then that's great in my eyes.

We know he's only a fringe guy because he is playing WAFL when our senior team is garbage and there should be plenty of spots to grab.
Click to expand...

In that case, he's ****ed. Because he's not a forward's arseh*le.
 

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