List Mgmt. List management 2022-2023

[Power Raid]

Yes and no.

People aren’t exaggerating our problems with our personnel. They’re real, but hinkleys gameplan will protect our backs MOST of the time by having numbers between the arcs makes it hard for teams to navigate it through there and get inside 50.

But when teams can move the ball through ball use, or just consistently win clearances and use the ball cleanly our backs get exposed like all hell. They’re just outgunned when forced to play 1 on 1 against the bigger blokes.

Next year we will roll out the same players and the same plan and it will serve us well enough, until we come up against the better teams and then it won’t.

this is exactly the issue

"we exist to achieve mediocrity" rather than "we exist to win premierships"


safety first!

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Yes and no.

People aren’t exaggerating our problems with our personnel. They’re real, but hinkleys gameplan will protect our backs MOST of the time by having numbers between the arcs makes it hard for teams to navigate it through there and get inside 50.

But when teams can move the ball through ball use, or just consistently win clearances and use the ball cleanly our backs get exposed like all hell. They’re just outgunned when forced to play 1 on 1 against the bigger blokes.

Next year we will roll out the same players and the same plan and it will serve us well enough, until we come up against the better teams and then it won’t.

Sadly predictable isn't it.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Janus]

Our best defensive setup is Aliir, Jonas and McKenzie.

Against Geelong this year, Clurey lost every single one of the 4 one on ones he had against his opponent. McKenzie when he fit would lose half that.

It's why after the Geelong game, Clurey was dropped for the rest of the year.

But that's not our real problem. Our real problem is the amount of ball that is getting into our defensive 50. Geelong's defense isn't hat much better than ours, if at all. The real reason they look great is because Geelong averaged a differential of +12.8 to their opponents for inside 50s. We averaged +2.9. But it wasn't that the ball was spending more time down in the opposition half - we were equal 4th best for opposition inside 50 entries with 50 alongside Fremantle, behind the Dogs (49.5), Melbourne (48.8) and Geelong (44.9).

No, our problem is forward of centre, like it always has been - 52.9 inside 50s per game, 10th in the league. Geelong was first with 57.7.

In 2014, Port was 1st in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+10.7 differential)

In 2020, Port was 2nd in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+9.6 differential)

In 2021, Port was 5th in the league for inside 50s, and 14th in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+4.2 differential). Guess who was 1st? The Dogs, with +7.5, followed by Melbourne with +6.8

This comes from getting our forward game going and locking the ball inside 50 for repeat entries. That's when guys like Fantasia, Rioli, Powell-Pepper, Rozee and Butters should shine. I don't give a flying **** about one on one contests. Horne-Francis should help us win 3+ more centre clearances per game, and Rioli should help us lock the ball in more.

 

[Adz2332]

Our best defensive setup is Aliir, Jonas and McKenzie.

Against Geelong this year, Clurey lost every single one of the 4 one on ones he had against his opponent. McKenzie when he fit would lose half that.

It's why after the Geelong game, Clurey was dropped for the rest of the year.

But that's not our real problem. Our real problem is the amount of ball that is getting into our defensive 50. Geelong's defense isn't hat much better than ours, if at all. The real reason they look great is because Geelong averaged a differential of +12.8 to their opponents for inside 50s. We averaged +2.9. But it wasn't that the ball was spending more time down in the opposition half - we were equal 4th best for opposition inside 50 entries with 50 alongside Fremantle, behind the Dogs (49.5), Melbourne (48.8) and Geelong (44.9).

No, our problem is forward of centre, like it always has been - 52.9 inside 50s per game, 10th in the league. Geelong was first with 57.7.

In 2014, Port was 1st in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+10.7 differential)

In 2020, Port was 2nd in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+9.6 differential)

In 2021, Port was 5th in the league for inside 50s, and 14th in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+4.2 differential). Guess who was 1st? The Dogs, with +7.5, followed by Melbourne with +6.8

This comes from getting our forward game going and locking the ball inside 50 for repeat entries. That's when guys like Fantasia, Rioli, Powell-Pepper, Rozee and Butters should shine. I don't give a flying * about one on one contests. Horne-Francis should help us win 3+ more centre clearances per game, and Rioli should help us lock the ball in more.

rough on clurey. he had zero cahnce against hawkins, the ball coming into hawkins was silver service. wouldnt have mattered who was on him.
Clurey >>> Mckenzie

 

[Jello_B]

Our best defensive setup is Aliir, Jonas and McKenzie.

Against Geelong this year, Clurey lost every single one of the 4 one on ones he had against his opponent. McKenzie when he fit would lose half that.

It's why after the Geelong game, Clurey was dropped for the rest of the year.

But that's not our real problem. Our real problem is the amount of ball that is getting into our defensive 50. Geelong's defense isn't hat much better than ours, if at all. The real reason they look great is because Geelong averaged a differential of +12.8 to their opponents for inside 50s. We averaged +2.9. But it wasn't that the ball was spending more time down in the opposition half - we were equal 4th best for opposition inside 50 entries with 50 alongside Fremantle, behind the Dogs (49.5), Melbourne (48.8) and Geelong (44.9).

No, our problem is forward of centre, like it always has been - 52.9 inside 50s per game, 10th in the league. Geelong was first with 57.7.

In 2014, Port was 1st in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+10.7 differential)

In 2020, Port was 2nd in the league for inside 50s, and 2nd in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+9.6 differential)

In 2021, Port was 5th in the league for inside 50s, and 14th in the league for least inside 50s conceded (+4.2 differential). Guess who was 1st? The Dogs, with +7.5, followed by Melbourne with +6.8

This comes from getting our forward game going and locking the ball inside 50 for repeat entries. That's when guys like Fantasia, Rioli, Powell-Pepper, Rozee and Butters should shine. I don't give a flying * about one on one contests. Horne-Francis should help us win 3+ more centre clearances per game, and Rioli should help us lock the ball in more.

Geelong tall defenders are a lot better than ours.

 

[Schulzenfest]

The problem with the Clurey v McKenzie debate is the fact that we even have to have it. If either one of them had proven themselves to unquestionably be a high quality AFL key defender, then there would be no debate and we wouldn't be in our current mess.

 

[Bevoman]

The problem with the Clurey v McKenzie debate is the fact that we even have to have it. If either one of them had proven themselves to unquestionably be a high quality AFL key defender, then there would be no debate and we wouldn't be in our current mess.

I disagree, they are good players being played in the wrong position.
They are both too small to be playing full-back; this small strategy does not work against strong teams

 

[PatientMental]

I disagree, they are good players being played in the wrong position.
They are both too small to be playing full-back; this small strategy does not work against strong teams

Good players don't get played out of position

 

[Schulzenfest]

I disagree, they are good players being played in the wrong position.
They are both too small to be playing full-back; this small strategy does not work against strong teams

Well they're not quick enough or good enough at rebounding enough to play as small defenders, so if they're not suited to playing as tall defenders or as small defenders, what are they doing on our list?

 

[King_Tredrea]

It’s much of a muchness because neither should be leading an AFL defense, but FWIW McKenzie is a better body defender then Clurey. He’s also a better kick. Better player overall IMO.

 

[Adz2332]

Well they're not quick enough or good enough at rebounding enough to play as small defenders, so if they're not suited to playing as tall defenders or as small defenders, what are they doing on our list?

neither are number 1 key defenders. Clurey is the second tall defender, Mckenzie is a break glass in case of emergency.
Need one negative tall big defender

 

[VineValerian]

Tom Hird delisted by the Bummers.
yay, let's recruit him.
He can bring his old man along too, into the position of PAFC Substance Counsellor

 

[Janus]

Geelong tall defenders are a lot better than ours.

Oh really?

2022 stats:

Aliir Aliir - 19 games - 19 contested marks, 112 spoils, 75 contested defensive one on ones, 18 contested one on ones lost - 24% CDL
Tom Jonas - 21 games - 15 contested marks, 104 spoils, 46 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 19.6% CDL
Tom Clurey - 13 games - 9 contested marks, 68 spoils, 65 contested defensive one on ones, 22 contested one on ones lost - 33.8% CDL
Trent McKenzie - 7 games - 8 contested marks, 33 spoils, 26 contested defensive one on ones, 10 contested one on ones lost - 38.5% CDL

60 games, 51 contested marks, 317 spoils, 212 contested defensive one on ones, 59 contested one on ones lost

Port Adelaide average defender:

20 games, 0.64 contested marks per game, 3.96 spoils per game, 2.65 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.74 contested one on ones lost per game - 27.9% CDL

vs

Sam De Koning - 23 games - 36 contested marks, 118 spoils, 69 contested defensive one on ones, 17 contested one on ones lost - 24.6% CDL
Jake Kolodjashnij - 23 games - 15 contested marks, 72 spoils, 38 contested defensive one on ones, 12 contested one on ones lost - 31% CDL
Tom Stewart - 20 games - 14 contested marks, 73 spoils, 25 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested one on ones lost - 20% CDL
Jack Henry - 17 games - 10 contested marks, 58 spoils, 29 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 27.6%

83 games, 75 contested marks, 321 spoils, 161 contested defensive one on ones, 43 contested one on ones lost

Geelong average defender:

21 games, 0.9 contested marks per game, 3.87 spoils per game, 1.94 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.52 contested one on ones lost per game - 26.8% CDL

They are marginally better, and assisted quite a lot by De Koning, who boosts their contested mark rate something ridiculous. The difference is the number of times our defenders are isolated one on one - nearly 1 more time per game than Geelong. That comes down to a lack of defensive pressure and stupid turnovers from the midfield. Geelong also has the added benefit of having a ruck like Blicavs float back and be an extra defender, whereas this board seems to think that we should play a ruck who only contributes hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

Mark Blicavs 2022 - 24 games - 60 spoils, 21 contested defensive one on ones, 2 contested defensive one on ones lost - 9.5% CDL

Sam Hayes 2022 - 7 games - 19 spoils, 4 contested defensive one on ones, 3 contested defensive one on ones lost - 75% CDL

Scott Lycett 2021 - 20 games - 55 spoils, 18 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested defensive one on ones lost - 27.8% CDL

 

[Jello_B]

Oh really?

2022 stats:

Aliir Aliir - 19 games - 19 contested marks, 112 spoils, 75 contested defensive one on ones, 18 contested one on ones lost - 24% CDL
Tom Jonas - 21 games - 15 contested marks, 104 spoils, 46 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 19.6% CDL
Tom Clurey - 13 games - 9 contested marks, 68 spoils, 65 contested defensive one on ones, 22 contested one on ones lost - 33.8% CDL
Trent McKenzie - 7 games - 8 contested marks, 33 spoils, 26 contested defensive one on ones, 10 contested one on ones lost - 38.5% CDL

60 games, 51 contested marks, 317 spoils, 212 contested defensive one on ones, 59 contested one on ones lost

Port Adelaide average defender:

20 games, 0.64 contested marks per game, 3.96 spoils per game, 2.65 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.74 contested one on ones lost per game - 27.9% CDL

vs

Sam De Koning - 23 games - 36 contested marks, 118 spoils, 69 contested defensive one on ones, 17 contested one on ones lost - 24.6% CDL
Jake Kolodjashnij - 23 games - 15 contested marks, 72 spoils, 38 contested defensive one on ones, 12 contested one on ones lost - 31% CDL
Tom Stewart - 20 games - 14 contested marks, 73 spoils, 25 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested one on ones lost - 20% CDL
Jack Henry - 17 games - 10 contested marks, 58 spoils, 29 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 27.6%

83 games, 75 contested marks, 321 spoils, 161 contested defensive one on ones, 43 contested one on ones lost

Geelong average defender:

21 games, 0.9 contested marks per game, 3.87 spoils per game, 1.94 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.52 contested one on ones lost per game - 26.8% CDL

They are marginally better, and assisted quite a lot by De Koning, who boosts their contested mark rate something ridiculous. The difference is the number of times our defenders are isolated one on one - nearly 1 more time per game than Geelong. That comes down to a lack of defensive pressure and stupid turnovers from the midfield. Geelong also has the added benefit of having a ruck like Blicavs float back and be an extra defender, whereas this board seems to think that we should play a ruck who only contributes hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

Mark Blicavs 2022 - 24 games - 60 spoils, 21 contested defensive one on ones, 2 contested defensive one on ones lost - 9.5% CDL

Sam Hayes 2022 - 7 games - 19 spoils, 4 contested defensive one on ones, 3 contested defensive one on ones lost - 75% CDL

Scott Lycett 2021 - 20 games - 55 spoils, 18 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested defensive one on ones lost - 27.8% CDL

If we had Stewart and

Oh really?

2022 stats:

Aliir Aliir - 19 games - 19 contested marks, 112 spoils, 75 contested defensive one on ones, 18 contested one on ones lost - 24% CDL
Tom Jonas - 21 games - 15 contested marks, 104 spoils, 46 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 19.6% CDL
Tom Clurey - 13 games - 9 contested marks, 68 spoils, 65 contested defensive one on ones, 22 contested one on ones lost - 33.8% CDL
Trent McKenzie - 7 games - 8 contested marks, 33 spoils, 26 contested defensive one on ones, 10 contested one on ones lost - 38.5% CDL

60 games, 51 contested marks, 317 spoils, 212 contested defensive one on ones, 59 contested one on ones lost

Port Adelaide average defender:

20 games, 0.64 contested marks per game, 3.96 spoils per game, 2.65 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.74 contested one on ones lost per game - 27.9% CDL

vs

Sam De Koning - 23 games - 36 contested marks, 118 spoils, 69 contested defensive one on ones, 17 contested one on ones lost - 24.6% CDL
Jake Kolodjashnij - 23 games - 15 contested marks, 72 spoils, 38 contested defensive one on ones, 12 contested one on ones lost - 31% CDL
Tom Stewart - 20 games - 14 contested marks, 73 spoils, 25 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested one on ones lost - 20% CDL
Jack Henry - 17 games - 10 contested marks, 58 spoils, 29 contested defensive one on ones, 9 contested one on ones lost - 27.6%

83 games, 75 contested marks, 321 spoils, 161 contested defensive one on ones, 43 contested one on ones lost

Geelong average defender:

21 games, 0.9 contested marks per game, 3.87 spoils per game, 1.94 contested defensive one on ones per game, 0.52 contested one on ones lost per game - 26.8% CDL

They are marginally better, and assisted quite a lot by De Koning, who boosts their contested mark rate something ridiculous. The difference is the number of times our defenders are isolated one on one - nearly 1 more time per game than Geelong. That comes down to a lack of defensive pressure and stupid turnovers from the midfield. Geelong also has the added benefit of having a ruck like Blicavs float back and be an extra defender, whereas this board seems to think that we should play a ruck who only contributes hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

Mark Blicavs 2022 - 24 games - 60 spoils, 21 contested defensive one on ones, 2 contested defensive one on ones lost - 9.5% CDL

Sam Hayes 2022 - 7 games - 19 spoils, 4 contested defensive one on ones, 3 contested defensive one on ones lost - 75% CDL

Scott Lycett 2021 - 20 games - 55 spoils, 18 contested defensive one on ones, 5 contested defensive one on ones lost - 27.8% CDL

If we had Stewart and De Koning we would be a premiership threat next year.

 

[philthy05]

Clurey is a perfectly serviceable fullback

There’s far worse getting around, certainly the team that just won the premiership fielded kolojazzknee who isn’t half the player clurey is.


The problem is clurey is decent but no where near good enough in a game plan that is designed that when it gets caught out against the better teams it exposes its fb to 1 on 1s.

Think about how often our key defenders get caught out in one on ones versus how often a guy like Dixon gets repeat one on ones.


As I’ve said a million times, hinkleys gameplan stuffs the area between the arcs full of players to make moving the ball from our forward line to our defensive 50 hard for teams who don’t have exquisite ball movement or the ability to dominate us in clearances.

But when a team can do that, and the top teams can, hinkleys gameplan really exposes our key defenders.

And clurey does not have the size or ability to overcome that.

Hinkleys gameplan, as long as he persists with it will expose our fb occasionally. (And by occasionally I mean the better teams)

We either need to get a superstar fb that can stand up to that type of challenge, or just be so superior in the midfield that the best teams get less chance to expose our fb.

 

[Tibbs]

Clurey is a perfectly serviceable fullback

There’s far worse getting around, certainly the team that just won the premiership fielded kolojazzknee who isn’t half the player clurey is.


The problem is clurey is decent but no where near good enough in a game plan that is designed that when it gets caught out against the better teams it exposes its fb to 1 on 1s.

Think about how often our key defenders get caught out in one on ones versus how often a guy like Dixon gets repeat one on ones.


As I’ve said a million times, hinkleys gameplan stuffs the area between the arcs full of players to make moving the ball from our forward line to our defensive 50 hard for teams who don’t have exquisite ball movement or the ability to dominate us in clearances.

But when a team can do that, and the top teams can, hinkleys gameplan really exposes our key defenders.

And clurey does not have the size or ability to overcome that.

Hinkleys gameplan, as long as he persists with it will expose our fb occasionally. (And by occasionally I mean the better teams)

We either need to get a superstar fb that can stand up to that type of challenge, or just be so superior in the midfield that the best teams get less chance to expose our fb.

This!

The fact is when we have been on top of the tree in the last few years where we made the pre-lim, our defence was lauded as one of the best in the league. Suddenly this year when out game fell apart and we couldnt hold the opposition, our defence just crumbled.

What changed? Our defence didnt get worse! Players like Clurey and McKenzie didnt regress! Hinkley's failed gameplan and the inability to defend the ark just continually exposed them to onslaught after onslaught.

Sure another tall KPD is needed, but that is to get ready for McKenzie & Jonas who will soon be gone.

 

[Sleezy]

This!

The fact is when we have been on top of the tree in the last few years where we made the pre-lim, our defence was lauded as one of the best in the league. Suddenly this year when out game fell apart and we couldnt hold the opposition, our defence just crumbled.

What changed? Our defence didnt get worse! Players like Clurey and McKenzie didnt regress! Hinkley's failed gameplan and the inability to defend the ark just continually exposed them to onslaught after onslaught.

Sure another tall KPD is needed, but that is to get ready for McKenzie & Jonas who will soon be gone.

Well all of Course, McKenzie & Aliir regressed this year. But they were all also injured. Aliir was basically playing on one leg all year.

It will help if they get a clean run at it next year.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

This!

The fact is when we have been on top of the tree in the last few years where we made the pre-lim, our defence was lauded as one of the best in the league. Suddenly this year when out game fell apart and we couldnt hold the opposition, our defence just crumbled.

What changed? Our defence didnt get worse! Players like Clurey and McKenzie didnt regress! Hinkley's failed gameplan and the inability to defend the ark just continually exposed them to onslaught after onslaught.

Sure another tall KPD is needed, but that is to get ready for McKenzie & Jonas who will soon be gone.

The stand rule didn’t help either.

It made it easier for teams to breach put high press.

A good coach would have adjusted for that

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shewho]

There are a number of FA lock down tall defenders available in 2023: McKay, Thompson, Doedee, Broad, Grimes and Davis as well as Himmleberg, McGovern and Blicavs.

I like the idea of Blicavs for payback. Now that his twin is filthy rich, McKay might be gettable for coin. Doedee is probably the best fit.

 

[philthy05]

McKay- would take a miracle (and a million dollars) to get him out of Victoria

Thompson - who?

Doedee - he’s not the key defender everyone is asking for. He’s listed at 187cm by footywire (I thought he was around 191?)

Neither broad or grimes are remotely the tall lockdown key defenders

Davis? He’s been cooked for years much less by the time we could get him in. Sure thing to retire.

Himmelberg? He’s not that good. Not what we’re looking for.

McGovern is finished, why the **** would we take on his massive contract?

Blicavs? No chance to get him out of Geelong.

 

[Adz2332]

McKay- would take a miracle (and a million dollars) to get him out of Victoria

Thompson - who?

Doedee - he’s not the key defender everyone is asking for. He’s listed at 187cm by footywire (I thought he was around 191?)

Neither broad or grimes are remotely the tall lockdown key defenders

Davis? He’s been cooked for years much less by the time we could get him in. Sure thing to retire.

Himmelberg? He’s not that good. Not what we’re looking for.

McGovern is finished, why the * would we take on his massive contract?

Blicavs? No chance to get him out of Geelong.

Mckay would be the only one on that list id want. Hes worth every cent to

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Doedee's not a lockdown tall defender, that's Butts' role at the crows. Doedee zones off and intercept marks.

 

[Bevoman]

McKay- would take a miracle (and a million dollars) to get him out of Victoria

Thompson - who?

Doedee - he’s not the key defender everyone is asking for. He’s listed at 187cm by footywire (I thought he was around 191?)

Neither broad or grimes are remotely the tall lockdown key defenders

Davis? He’s been cooked for years much less by the time we could get him in. Sure thing to retire.

Himmelberg? He’s not that good. Not what we’re looking for.

McGovern is finished, why the * would we take on his massive contract?

Blicavs? No chance to get him out of Geelong.

Hypothetical free agents at the end of next year do not help us for next season.
Geelong have all of next year to extend Blicavs contract.

Stopping Biicavs is the key to defeating Geelong.

With a fit Lycett, I would like Finlayson to play on the wing and replicate the Geelong rucks.
Where Blicavs and Stanley drift down as a spare defender.

 

[PatientMental]

Hypothetical free agents at the end of next year do not help us for next season.
Geelong have all of next year to extend Blicavs contract.

Stopping Biicavs is the key to defeating Geelong.

With a fit Lycett, I would like Finlayson to play on the wing and replicate the Geelong rucks.
Where Blicavs and Stanley drift down as a spare defender.

sure it does

 

[JimmyBC]

It doesn't really matter if we statistically get by in defense, without the extra big KPD it always has the chance to fail miserably when it matters against good teams with multi prong tall forwards.