Review Negatives vs North Melbourne

[DanWCE]

Gov was never near the mark though, he dropped off Goldy 15m behind just as hemarked outside 50.

What Gov did was pretty much what most defenses do. If he cant impact that contest roll back and impact the next. Yes a mid comes and stands the mark. That is what supporting your defense is all about.

Gov is well in his rights to ask Yeo wtf is he going on about to be fair.

Maybe something else occurred earlier with Gov not covering his man close enough?

Agreed, I actually think Yeo lost his shit thinking he encroached the mark as if to say don't just run off Gov, point to where I need to be first.

Gov has always peeled off on the rare occasion he's caught out of position. That's just playing to his strengths. Later on Yeoy did something nice in our forward 50 and Gov gave him a big rub and pat on the head, so the boys are all good. It's us mere supporters trying to work out what's going on. Until Pav gobbed off I thought Yeo was roasting the ump and surprised there wasn't a second 50 paid.

 

[ziad]

Agreed, I actually think Yeo lost his sh*t thinking he encroached the mark as if to say don't just run off Gov, point to where I need to be first.

Gov has always peeled off on the rare occasion he's caught out of position. That's just playing to his strengths. Later on Yeoy did something nice in our forward 50 and Gov gave him a big rub and pat on the head, so the boys are all good. It's us mere supporters trying to work out what's going on. Until Pav gobbed off I thought Yeo was roasting the ump and surprised there wasn't a second 50 paid.

Probably right. Certainly poor umpiring.

 

[Gizza]

Langdon shows spirit and has a go which I like. But honestly, how the **** is he able to be play at AFL level and legit struggle to kick it 30m? I don't know if this is something that can be fixed, but it has to be his number one priority in the off season.

 

[ziad]

Langdon shows spirit and has a go which I like. But honestly, how the fu** is he able to be play at AFL level and legit struggle to kick it 30m? I don't know if this is something that can be fixed, but it has to be his number one priority in the off season.

Boomer Harvey played a few.
Rotham didn't make 8m to Sheed (or was it 10).

 

[DanWCE]

Langdon shows spirit and has a go which I like. But honestly, how the fu** is he able to be play at AFL level and legit struggle to kick it 30m? I don't know if this is something that can be fixed, but it has to be his number one priority in the off season.

Good on him for getting himself in a position to kick some goals, but he and the team need to be aware of his limits and create the dish off handball for a shot, or the fake shot chip pass to someone closer to goal.

 

[sey666]

I have an issue with the ducking, don't know why more people don't but have said plenty on it now. Bringing Selwood up is pure whataboutism, there is really no comparing Shuey or anyone on our side to Geelong or Hawthorne because both are dynasty type clubs that got the most out of their talent in an era when our players have largely underachieved and will always have a knock on them for being soft and underachievers, despite the one premiership.

Moose1414 your logic as well as your principles are all over the place. Dirty tactics are OK if you are a dynasty club but not OK if you are a struggling or an average club. Really? Dirty tactics\play are either bad or they are good irrespective of who is doing it. Luke Hodge once nearly killed Wingard in a HAW vs Port game (can't really remember think he got 3 weeks for that) and was also charged with drink driving when he was captain - very inspirational stuff. Your whole point is that Shuey is a terrible captain because he ducks. However, Selwood is great captain even though he is a bigger ducker than Shuey and also does far worse things on the field. Bringing Selwood up is not whataboutism - Selwood is a counterexample to your argument.

You may be the ONLY West Coast fan who did not enjoy that elimination final win against Port Adelaide in 2017.

But I'd ask you, if he was always one of our better players under Hurn what is it about him that has stood out to you in the games he has played that makes it clear he's a great captain?

I never said Shuey is a great captain. I haven't formed an opinion on that yet. It is too early to tell either way - he hasn't even captained the side in 20 games and he was in and out of the team due to injury most of the time. Shuey's loyalty to the club is second to none. Unlike Gaff or Gov, he never tested free agency. I don't know about you but to me loyalty to the club matters more than any ducking issue. I think he could be a good captain but time will tell - we finished bottom in the first 3 years under Glass.

By the way, I am still waiting for you to tell us the other negative qualities of Shuey which make him a terrible captain.

Another question for you. Do you think Shuey should hold onto the captaincy until he retires or pass it on at years end and just focus on getting his body right and playing his role next year like Hurn has been doing since passing it up. Who do you think should get the gig next whether he goes on or hands it in? Oscar or Yeo or Duggan for me are the only candidates for the next cap.

Who cares what I think? The players will select who they think is the best person to lead them.

 

[Moose1414]

You may be the ONLY West Coast fan who did not enjoy that elimination final win against Port Adelaide in 2017.


Who cares what I think? The players will select who they think is the best person to lead them.

Incorrect I loved it and said as much already. Definitely fits the category of guilty pleasure though I understand why Port hates us lol.

Bringing up Selwood and Hodge is pure whataboutism, and you are all over the place with your counterpoints. I said both were captains of dynastic clubs so can't be compared to Shuey or anyone else in our club to be honest because our group have never lived up to their potential in the way that Hawthorn did, case can be made Geelong underachieved a little but we're another ballpark. I don't want to get drawn in on either of Hodge or Selwood, both are opposition players and to the extent I know who either are I regret every game of modern AFL that I have ever watched outside of the Eagles. Shuey is not in the same conversation as either so far as being a captain goes, that much is obvious. As players, I wasn't holding Shuey up to scrutiny for anything he did as a player I was making the point that as a caption I'd prefer the focus to be on winning the ball not on playing for free kicks. Quite bored of responding to arguments people make up about my posts while substituting their own arguments as mine. Is it that hard to agree or accept that grown men shouldn't be chasing cheap free kicks, its embarrassing.


I guess we'll never know what the players think of their captain but someone put it out there that the club has gone to water since Rioli returned to Perth.

Coincidentally and somewhat confusingly its also gone to water since Shuey returned to the field. We're a full strength side on paper and most of the board argues we have the most talented list [on paper] in the game, 4 weeks ago we were looking at fighting into the top 4. Its been an eventful 3 games, maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither. Jury is definitely out on what the players think of their captain observing from afar.

I'd like to make a point since there has been a lot of talk or Hawthorn and Geelong's leadership group. Bashing Simmo is good value on this board and I think its fair that anyone can have a crack at anyone, its an anonymous forum on the internet ffs and we are are all a bunch of football tragic virgins who clearly care more about this stuff than fans not shouting at clouds on here. Post 2015 and pre 2018 I used to have take a lot of swipes at Simmo myself, but I think the strongest thing I've ever said on here about our underachievement is that at the end of the day its the players. We have a core group of players who Simpson took over from, who Worsfold essentially gave up on before that, that while being all time as far as talent is concerned, have never been and will never be in the same league as dynasty players. Collectively, the group just for whatever reason lacks the confidence and self belief, or frankly the arrogance, that proves the difference. Hawthorn had it. Richmond had it. Geelong had it. We don't have it. We've been in the conversation since 2015, and it all gelled together for one month out of the last 6 years and that core group [minus Shep, Nic, Gaff] got their medal and now its pretty much over. Life is good as a west coast player in the instagram age and going down in history as an invincible takes a ridiculous amount of commitment, an unhealthy amount. We all want more as fans, I'm not sure the players want what we want. I'm not sure I'd want it if I was in their shoes either. Friends, yes. Family, yes. Flags? Well maybe flag. Thats 2.5 out of 3, more than most players ever achieve.

Shuey is a caretaker captain who'll probably end up handing the reins to the next bloke having spent more time off the park than on it in that role. It is what it is, the team he was a part of will go down as probably [on paper] most talented team of all time, but also our 3rd best premiership outfit. Thats 100% a matter of between the ears and personal character and maybe Simpson has had the hardest job of any coach in our history and the truth is there is nothing that can be done. Well, outside of dropping prized BBQ invitee's that is but then who'd bring the salad? I can't read his mind but I think he just see his role as convincing the boys they system doesn't matter, its all about collective buy in [from bbq invitee's] and if you don't have it you just finish where you finish.

 

[Wight Wolf]

Incorrect I loved it and said as much already. Definitely fits the category of guilty pleasure though I understand why Port hates us lol.

Bringing up Selwood and Hodge is pure whataboutism, and you are all over the place with your counterpoints. I said both were captains of dynastic clubs so can't be compared to Shuey or anyone else in our club to be honest because our group have never lived up to their potential in the way that Hawthorn did, case can be made Geelong underachieved a little but we're another ballpark. I don't want to get drawn in on either of Hodge or Selwood, both are opposition players and to the extent I know who either are I regret every game of modern AFL that I have ever watched outside of the Eagles. Shuey is not in the same conversation as either so far as being a captain goes, that much is obvious. As players, I wasn't holding Shuey up to scrutiny for anything he did as a player I was making the point that as a caption I'd prefer the focus to be on winning the ball not on playing for free kicks. Quite bored of responding to arguments people make up about my posts while substituting their own arguments as mine. Is it that hard to agree or accept that grown men shouldn't be chasing cheap free kicks, its embarrassing.


I guess we'll never know what the players think of their captain but someone put it out there that the club has gone to water since Rioli returned to Perth.

Coincidentally and somewhat confusingly its also gone to water since Shuey returned to the field. We're a full strength side on paper and most of the board argues we have the most talented list [on paper] in the game, 4 weeks ago we were looking at fighting into the top 4. Its been an eventful 3 games, maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither. Jury is definitely out on what the players think of their captain observing from afar.

I'd like to make a point since there has been a lot of talk or Hawthorn and Geelong's leadership group. Bashing Simmo is good value on this board and I think its fair that anyone can have a crack at anyone, its an anonymous forum on the internet ffs and we are are all a bunch of football tragic virgins who clearly care more about this stuff than fans not shouting at clouds on here. Post 2015 and pre 2018 I used to have take a lot of swipes at Simmo myself, but I think the strongest thing I've ever said on here about our underachievement is that at the end of the day its the players. We have a core group of players who Simpson took over from, who Worsfold essentially gave up on before that, that while being all time as far as talent is concerned, have never been and will never be in the same league as dynasty players. Collectively, the group just for whatever reason lacks the confidence and self belief, or frankly the arrogance, that proves the difference. Hawthorn had it. Richmond had it. Geelong had it. We don't have it. We've been in the conversation since 2015, and it all gelled together for one month out of the last 6 years and that core group [minus Shep, Nic, Gaff] got their medal and now its pretty much over. Life is good as a west coast player in the instagram age and going down in history as an invincible takes a ridiculous amount of commitment, an unhealthy amount. We all want more as fans, I'm not sure the players want what we want. I'm not sure I'd want it if I was in their shoes either. Friends, yes. Family, yes. Flags? Well maybe flag. Thats 2.5 out of 3, more than most players ever achieve.

Shuey is a caretaker captain who'll probably end up handing the reins to the next bloke having spent more time off the park than on it in that role. It is what it is, the team he was a part of will go down as probably [on paper] most talented team of all time, but also our 3rd best premiership outfit. Thats 100% a matter of between the ears and personal character and maybe Simpson has had the hardest job of any coach in our history and the truth is there is nothing that can be done. [well, outside of dropping prized BBQ invitee's that is ]

Hilarious. Hilarious you could think this is a possibility.

 

[Moose1414]

Hilarious. Hilarious you could think this is a possibility.

Think what is a possibility? I listed 3 things. I said maybe its a maybe its b maybe its neither. What is it I think? Tell me which thing is hilarious?

 

[Wight Wolf]

Think what is a possibility? I listed 3 things. I said maybe its a maybe its b maybe its neither. What is it I think? Tell me which thing is hilarious?

maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither.

Hilarious.

 

[Moose1414]

maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither.

Hilarious.

Haha. Cheers, well yes I did mean that to be an amusing sentence to read. Hilarious is maybe too strong a word for what I was going for, I would prefer a compliment more along the lines of "Hey Moose, I lolled out loud reading that expertly crafted sentence you joker you!'' or something sycophantic like that.

It always shocks me when people do the hard opposite take on a not all that ambiguous piss take. Its disappointing if I'm honest. I try so hard but since CM9000 retired from dishing out free likes I've really struggled to maintain my ratios around here. Be better people!

 

[sey666]

Incorrect I loved it and said as much already. Definitely fits the category of guilty pleasure though I understand why Port hates us lol.

Bringing up Selwood and Hodge is pure whataboutism, and you are all over the place with your counterpoints. I said both were captains of dynastic clubs so can't be compared to Shuey or anyone else in our club to be honest because our group have never lived up to their potential in the way that Hawthorn did, case can be made Geelong underachieved a little but we're another ballpark. I don't want to get drawn in on either of Hodge or Selwood, both are opposition players and to the extent I know who either are I regret every game of modern AFL that I have ever watched outside of the Eagles. Shuey is not in the same conversation as either so far as being a captain goes, that much is obvious. As players, I wasn't holding Shuey up to scrutiny for anything he did as a player I was making the point that as a caption I'd prefer the focus to be on winning the ball not on playing for free kicks. Quite bored of responding to arguments people make up about my posts while substituting their own arguments as mine. Is it that hard to agree or accept that grown men shouldn't be chasing cheap free kicks, its embarrassing.


I guess we'll never know what the players think of their captain but someone put it out there that the club has gone to water since Rioli returned to Perth.

Coincidentally and somewhat confusingly its also gone to water since Shuey returned to the field. We're a full strength side on paper and most of the board argues we have the most talented list [on paper] in the game, 4 weeks ago we were looking at fighting into the top 4. Its been an eventful 3 games, maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither. Jury is definitely out on what the players think of their captain observing from afar.

I'd like to make a point since there has been a lot of talk or Hawthorn and Geelong's leadership group. Bashing Simmo is good value on this board and I think its fair that anyone can have a crack at anyone, its an anonymous forum on the internet ffs and we are are all a bunch of football tragic virgins who clearly care more about this stuff than fans not shouting at clouds on here. Post 2015 and pre 2018 I used to have take a lot of swipes at Simmo myself, but I think the strongest thing I've ever said on here about our underachievement is that at the end of the day its the players. We have a core group of players who Simpson took over from, who Worsfold essentially gave up on before that, that while being all time as far as talent is concerned, have never been and will never be in the same league as dynasty players. Collectively, the group just for whatever reason lacks the confidence and self belief, or frankly the arrogance, that proves the difference. Hawthorn had it. Richmond had it. Geelong had it. We don't have it. We've been in the conversation since 2015, and it all gelled together for one month out of the last 6 years and that core group [minus Shep, Nic, Gaff] got their medal and now its pretty much over. Life is good as a west coast player in the instagram age and going down in history as an invincible takes a ridiculous amount of commitment, an unhealthy amount. We all want more as fans, I'm not sure the players want what we want. I'm not sure I'd want it if I was in their shoes either. Friends, yes, family yes, Flags? Well maybe flag.

Shuey is a caretaker captain who'll probably end up handing the reins to the next bloke having spent more time off the park than on it in that role. It is what it is, they'll go down as our probably on paper most talented team of all time, but also our 3rd best premiership outfit. Thats 100% a matter of between the ears and personal character and maybe Simpson has had the hardest job of any coach in our history and the truth is there is nothing that can be done. [well, outside of dropping prized BBQ invitee's that is ]

Bolded part has nothing to do with anything I posted. You have written a load of rubbish without any sort of evidence while conveniently forgetting to answer my question.

I should know better. You have a history of posting about things you have absolutely no idea of. If I remember correctly you argued with me in 2016 that NN‘s ACL (his first) was caused by the surgery he had earlier that season. Think your reasoning was that all body parts are connected. That was you, right? Unlikely but apologies if it was somebody else.

 

[Moose1414]

Bolded part has nothing to do with anything I posted. You have written a load of rubbish without any sort of evidence while conveniently forgetting to answer my question.

I should know better. You have a history of posting about things you have absolutely no idea of. If I remember correctly you argued with me in 2016 that NN‘s ACL (his first) was caused by the surgery he had earlier that season. Think your reasoning was that all body parts are connected. That was you, right? Unlikely but apologies if it was somebody else.

Wow. Great memory! That is actually my favourite argument I have ever made on this board outside the obvious efficacy of ivermectin.

I am still salty that that thread got deleted lol. Yes, it was me. And I still stand by it 100%. If you think you can snip out 2 structural tendons running from the foot to the knee, tendons that have been there all your life and your body has adapted to load bearing duties being shared across a combination of all tendons muscles joints in that region etc etc. Mid season you go in for surgery and have those removed and then you are back playing 9 weeks later with Simmo bragging in pressers "Its amazing, Nic's running around like spring chicken, if anything he can jump even higher now!" and then a few weeks later his ACL pops... No, you're right. In what universe could those 2 things ever be connected? I'm a moron, I put my hand up and fully admit it you and the hero mod on that thread were right the topic was rightly censured from discussion because the medical science on it was so settled, all research papers linking vasectomies of plantar tendons to ACLs was pure anti sports science propaganda put out by lizard people and victorians hell bent on bringing down West Coast for medical mal practice once and for all.

You are a Dr I presume sey666? Knee surgeon perhaps?

 

[Ishmael_]

Late positive, I thought Langdon has shown good things.

One thing our coaching group is very good at is improving disposal by foot. If he can clean that up, could be a good player for us.

 

[baby pluto]

Incorrect I loved it and said as much already. Definitely fits the category of guilty pleasure though I understand why Port hates us lol.

Bringing up Selwood and Hodge is pure whataboutism, and you are all over the place with your counterpoints. I said both were captains of dynastic clubs so can't be compared to Shuey or anyone else in our club to be honest because our group have never lived up to their potential in the way that Hawthorn did, case can be made Geelong underachieved a little but we're another ballpark. I don't want to get drawn in on either of Hodge or Selwood, both are opposition players and to the extent I know who either are I regret every game of modern AFL that I have ever watched outside of the Eagles. Shuey is not in the same conversation as either so far as being a captain goes, that much is obvious. As players, I wasn't holding Shuey up to scrutiny for anything he did as a player I was making the point that as a caption I'd prefer the focus to be on winning the ball not on playing for free kicks. Quite bored of responding to arguments people make up about my posts while substituting their own arguments as mine. Is it that hard to agree or accept that grown men shouldn't be chasing cheap free kicks, its embarrassing.


I guess we'll never know what the players think of their captain but someone put it out there that the club has gone to water since Rioli returned to Perth.

Coincidentally and somewhat confusingly its also gone to water since Shuey returned to the field. We're a full strength side on paper and most of the board argues we have the most talented list [on paper] in the game, 4 weeks ago we were looking at fighting into the top 4. Its been an eventful 3 games, maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither. Jury is definitely out on what the players think of their captain observing from afar.

I'd like to make a point since there has been a lot of talk or Hawthorn and Geelong's leadership group. Bashing Simmo is good value on this board and I think its fair that anyone can have a crack at anyone, its an anonymous forum on the internet ffs and we are are all a bunch of football tragic virgins who clearly care more about this stuff than fans not shouting at clouds on here. Post 2015 and pre 2018 I used to have take a lot of swipes at Simmo myself, but I think the strongest thing I've ever said on here about our underachievement is that at the end of the day its the players. We have a core group of players who Simpson took over from, who Worsfold essentially gave up on before that, that while being all time as far as talent is concerned, have never been and will never be in the same league as dynasty players. Collectively, the group just for whatever reason lacks the confidence and self belief, or frankly the arrogance, that proves the difference. Hawthorn had it. Richmond had it. Geelong had it. We don't have it. We've been in the conversation since 2015, and it all gelled together for one month out of the last 6 years and that core group [minus Shep, Nic, Gaff] got their medal and now its pretty much over. Life is good as a west coast player in the instagram age and going down in history as an invincible takes a ridiculous amount of commitment, an unhealthy amount. We all want more as fans, I'm not sure the players want what we want. I'm not sure I'd want it if I was in their shoes either. Friends, yes. Family, yes. Flags? Well maybe flag. Thats 2.5 out of 3, more than most players ever achieve.

Shuey is a caretaker captain who'll probably end up handing the reins to the next bloke having spent more time off the park than on it in that role. It is what it is, the team he was a part of will go down as probably [on paper] most talented team of all time, but also our 3rd best premiership outfit. Thats 100% a matter of between the ears and personal character and maybe Simpson has had the hardest job of any coach in our history and the truth is there is nothing that can be done. Well, outside of dropping prized BBQ invitee's that is but then who'd bring the salad? I can't read his mind but I think he just see his role as convincing the boys they system doesn't matter, its all about collective buy in [from bbq invitee's] and if you don't have it you just finish where you finish.

Can’t believe you wasted precious time typing this shit, a blind man can see that Shuey is a prototype captain. You need campaigner in ya to be a good captain or would you rather have Fyfe or Ziebell?

 

[Moose1414]

You have written a load of rubbish without any sort of evidence while conveniently forgetting to answer my question.

Lets not discuss the forbotten topic above, never again! mods have spoken.

What evidence am I supposed to post? I offered an opinion on Shuey as captain. I did so because another poster was having a massive and abusive winge about posts further back in the thread I didn't even read that must of been critical of Shuey. I decided to offer the opposite take, purely because I had an axe to grind against unsportsmanlike conduct in general and because I was salty about Shuey shrugging again on the weekend in a loss. My evidence backing up this opinion is that its my opinion. I gave multiple responses to people bringing in relevant arguments talking about other captains at other clubs doing things that are worse than Shueys high contact shenanigans. Why do I have to endlessly discuss other players at other clubs who I have no interest in? You've offered an opinion when I asked you for one on Shuey that was: don't have an opinion its up to the players/he's hardly been on the park so too early to call. I replied in part to your post and moved on. Lets leave this and let the thread get back to negatives v North Melbourne.

PS: If you DID want to start a new thread with your evidence as to why plantar tendon removals and ACL post recovery aren't connected and tag me and I'll read your literature and studies backing up your argument. Would be an epic thread lol for about half an hour before getting yeeted again lol. If not, maybe relax and just enjoy the back and forward here for the light hearted banter it is, or put me on mute if I'm upsetting you. I know my takes aren't for everyone, or maybe aren't for anyone actually, but I've got important shit to do in the real world and am lazy and can't help but coming here to procrastinate and waste time so bank on seeing more of my *harmless* rants friend.

 

[Moose1414]

Can’t believe you wasted precious time typing this sh*t, a blind man can see that Shuey is a prototype captain. You need campaigner in ya to be a good captain or would you rather have Fyfe or Ziebell?

I'm pro campaigner, have clarified my point endlessly now but all I was saying was playing for high contact is weak as piss and you aren't being a leader by trying to cheat the umpires into coughing up a fee kick. Though to be fair you can apparently win an elimination final doing so, I'd call that cult hero behaviour though not heart and soul. All my alternate picks for captain apart from hitler youf perfect Oscar Allen have campaigner [Yeo, Duggan] or elite courage Shep or a combination of all 3. I haven't mentioned this but should now, Shuey's got a bit of a rough melon on him surely this is also a problem? Handsome boys only please, its a front of camera position and that just marketing 101. Has football learned nothing from the Cameron Ling experience?

 

[Obeanie1]

Incorrect I loved it and said as much already. Definitely fits the category of guilty pleasure though I understand why Port hates us lol.

Bringing up Selwood and Hodge is pure whataboutism, and you are all over the place with your counterpoints. I said both were captains of dynastic clubs so can't be compared to Shuey or anyone else in our club to be honest because our group have never lived up to their potential in the way that Hawthorn did, case can be made Geelong underachieved a little but we're another ballpark. I don't want to get drawn in on either of Hodge or Selwood, both are opposition players and to the extent I know who either are I regret every game of modern AFL that I have ever watched outside of the Eagles. Shuey is not in the same conversation as either so far as being a captain goes, that much is obvious. As players, I wasn't holding Shuey up to scrutiny for anything he did as a player I was making the point that as a caption I'd prefer the focus to be on winning the ball not on playing for free kicks. Quite bored of responding to arguments people make up about my posts while substituting their own arguments as mine. Is it that hard to agree or accept that grown men shouldn't be chasing cheap free kicks, its embarrassing.


I guess we'll never know what the players think of their captain but someone put it out there that the club has gone to water since Rioli returned to Perth.

Coincidentally and somewhat confusingly its also gone to water since Shuey returned to the field. We're a full strength side on paper and most of the board argues we have the most talented list [on paper] in the game, 4 weeks ago we were looking at fighting into the top 4. Its been an eventful 3 games, maybe the players are making a collective statement on their views on recreational drug use or maybe they are making a statement on their endorsement of the current captain and vice captain returning to the field, or maybe neither. Jury is definitely out on what the players think of their captain observing from afar.

I'd like to make a point since there has been a lot of talk or Hawthorn and Geelong's leadership group. Bashing Simmo is good value on this board and I think its fair that anyone can have a crack at anyone, its an anonymous forum on the internet ffs and we are are all a bunch of football tragic virgins who clearly care more about this stuff than fans not shouting at clouds on here. Post 2015 and pre 2018 I used to have take a lot of swipes at Simmo myself, but I think the strongest thing I've ever said on here about our underachievement is that at the end of the day its the players. We have a core group of players who Simpson took over from, who Worsfold essentially gave up on before that, that while being all time as far as talent is concerned, have never been and will never be in the same league as dynasty players. Collectively, the group just for whatever reason lacks the confidence and self belief, or frankly the arrogance, that proves the difference. Hawthorn had it. Richmond had it. Geelong had it. We don't have it. We've been in the conversation since 2015, and it all gelled together for one month out of the last 6 years and that core group [minus Shep, Nic, Gaff] got their medal and now its pretty much over. Life is good as a west coast player in the instagram age and going down in history as an invincible takes a ridiculous amount of commitment, an unhealthy amount. We all want more as fans, I'm not sure the players want what we want. I'm not sure I'd want it if I was in their shoes either. Friends, yes. Family, yes. Flags? Well maybe flag. Thats 2.5 out of 3, more than most players ever achieve.

Shuey is a caretaker captain who'll probably end up handing the reins to the next bloke having spent more time off the park than on it in that role. It is what it is, the team he was a part of will go down as probably [on paper] most talented team of all time, but also our 3rd best premiership outfit. Thats 100% a matter of between the ears and personal character and maybe Simpson has had the hardest job of any coach in our history and the truth is there is nothing that can be done. Well, outside of dropping prized BBQ invitee's that is but then who'd bring the salad? I can't read his mind but I think he just see his role as convincing the boys they system doesn't matter, its all about collective buy in [from bbq invitee's] and if you don't have it you just finish where you finish.

There are some uncomfortable truths in what you are saying.

I dont agree with the last bit about nothing can be done. Its that that seperates the good coaches and the best. We simply need to draft for needs instead of best available. We need tough, ferocious and and skilled role players in the midfield. Stop searching for the next perfectly rounded midfielder and get a couple of blokes who can get the ball off the ground, in the wet, with good hands when the heat is on and when they dont have it pressuee and tackle like demons. Focus on what they do best and what we need, not what they cant do at the elite level. Dunstan is a good example.

We push the likes of Shuey and Kelly more to the outside to do what they do best. Shuey and Kelly rotate off a hff and replaces Petruccelle's output and footy IQ. Cripps maybe another to move out, replace him with Kelly / Rioli who doesnt fumble and can kick.

 

[Moose1414]

There are some uncomfortable truths in what you are saying.

I dont agree with the last bit about nothing can be done. Its that that seperates the good coaches and the best. We simply need to draft for needs instead of best available. We need tough, ferocious and and skilled role players in the midfield. Stop searching for the next perfectly rounded midfielder and get a couple of blokes who can get the ball off the ground, in the wet, with good hands when the heat is on and when they dont have it pressuee and tackle like demons. Focus on what they do best and what we need, not what they cant do at the elite level. Dunstan is a good example.

We push the likes of Shuey and Kelly more to the outside to do what they do best. Shuey and Kelly rotate off a hff and replaces Petruccelle's output and footy IQ. Cripps maybe another to move out, replace him with Kelly / Rioli who doesnt fumble and can kick.

I was being a little cynical there. Better way to say it is nothing will be done. As a supporter I've given up long ago with the Simmo should try this type of talk. Sometimes I'll randomly suggest something but its a given that his approach is to have a set role for every player, a best 22, and to back the system 100% during a form slump. It really is a bit too hard to say from outside closed doors thats not a good strategy, because if you are a senior coach and you throw out your system or don't put your best players on the field to work through their form issues then you are basically conceding that you got something wrong. If the coach got it wrong, the universe implodes and the club folds so you can't be doing that. His systems based approach worked in 2018, one premiership per decade is overachieving at AFL level so he's basically beyond reproach.

The flip side to this is ok thats one way to go but I absolutely agree with you, what separates a good coach from a grand master level coach is whatever it would be, if you could go back and redo history since 2014, that makes West Coast with this list the dynasty club of the past 5 years. I think we have underachieved with the 1 premiership. I think, looking from outside, if Simpson was a better coach we would probably have achieved more. But it is very difficult to say whether or not he's done basically everything he could and that at the end of the day backing the players in was ultimately the only move and that sometimes its just unfortunate but the players just fall short collectively from taking that extra step from good to great team. History is set on this now, they didn't take that step. Is that on them or is that on Simpson, we will never know and like all history its now irrelevant. Where does our next premiership come from?

2021 is obviously going to be a challenge. I wouldn't put a line through it because we are in the 8 and its very hard to say what can happen when we are only 2/3 through the home and away season and the top 4-5 clubs have basically had no injuries so far. Brisbane lose Hipwood and that puts pressure on them now. The covid situation could mean a non MCG GF for the 2nd year running and WA has 2 teams in the 8 and Optus is the best venue in the land. The AFL literally changes the rules and interpretation of the rules week to week. We have no way of predicting that 2021 couldn't be turned around even by playing the same team every week and the same game plan until the bitter end. Everything is unchartered waters with the AFL and the 2020's. We can't really say Simpson or the senior players in this squad can't close the gap between laughing stock and dual premiership coach and players very fast.

The greatest insight I've ever had into coaching at the elite level came from Malthouse talking during his greatly despised Carlton years when he was about to get the knife from the board due to turning over a massive portion of Rattens list and failing to win a Premiership with his new team within 2 years like was expected of him. He said that as a coach, the only games that mattered to him were the big games and he chose players based on how they performed in big games because thats how you build a team that can win Premierships. Said you will always have a mix of characters in the club and a mix of talents or abilities and that when there aren't really any stakes beyond 4 points, which is most weeks, a lot of players can look very good. And they are good players. But good players are not created equally, and where they are unequal is discovered in big games. And big game players are born for it, not taught. And the way you win big games, is you retain and promote players who have that about them, and you trade or relegate those who don't have that about them. This to me is the ultimate wisdom to coaching AFL football, or any elite sport. I am paraphrasing, and Malthouse always draws lols from people who say he was a failed coach because Collingwood lost those GF's to Brisbane and he disgraced himself at Carlton etc etc. I'll even admit that he was talking about Paul Medhurst as being an exemplar of the big game type of player he was talking about and we all know Medhurst played for Fremantle. So safety ignore that wisdom board.

But my suspicion is this: Simpson does not subscribe to that approach to coaching. I have no doubt that Malthouse would not rate half of our list of untouchables. Darling would not have a career under Malthouse I'm pretty certain of that. Cripps.. Gaff... I mean we all have our favourite whipping boys in the side that we just don't understand how they can underperform for months or even seasons at a time and not ever lose their spot in the 22 but safe to say that Simpson has the opposite approach to coaching than the thing I tried to describe about Mick. I believe that that is the key difference in approach that in the case of this team means all the boys [or most of them] retire with 2018 their only accolade, and Simpson eventually parting ways as a good but not great coach. It could all turn around in the space of a few weeks though and who's to say it won't and Simpson will look like a genius for backing in the boiz. I hope thats what happens.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Not enough being made of Simmo's "Judge us after the Norf game" imo.

Has he trotted out something similar for the Adelaide game yet?

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Boomer Harvey played a few.
Rotham didn't make 8m to Sheed (or was it 10).

According to the Vic commentators, it’s 15 metres if we do it in our back line and the vic team intercepts and goals to win the match, however, if it’s in our forward line and we mark it, then kick a goal to win the game it’s only 8m.

 

[Nuke Fremantle]

Not enough being made of Simmo's "Judge us after the Norf game" imo.

Has he trotted out something similar for the Adelaide game yet?

Got narky when a journo quoted that back to him in the post-match presser. The mostly meek WA media backed down quickly after that.

 

[woosha24]

Got narky when a journo quoted that back to him in the post-match presser. The mostly meek WA media backed down quickly after that.

He should be getting narky. His side's been piss poor for nearly a month and are staring down the barrel of missing finals for the first time in nearly 10 years. Coaches dont last long 'round these parts when West Coast consistently fail to perform.

My worry is that he is refusing to address the elephant in the room and change the gameplan. He'll have until the end of next year I reckon to redevelop it, and if he's still clinging to outdated structures by then he'll get The Tap On The Shoulder around August.

 

[Rowan18]

I was being a little cynical there. Better way to say it is nothing will be done. As a supporter I've given up long ago with the Simmo should try this type of talk. Sometimes I'll randomly suggest something but its a given that his approach is to have a set role for every player, a best 22, and to back the system 100% during a form slump. It really is a bit too hard to say from outside closed doors thats not a good strategy, because if you are a senior coach and you throw out your system or don't put your best players on the field to work through their form issues then you are basically conceding that you got something wrong. If the coach got it wrong, the universe implodes and the club folds so you can't be doing that. His systems based approach worked in 2018, one premiership per decade is overachieving at AFL level so he's basically beyond reproach.

The flip side to this is ok thats one way to go but I absolutely agree with you, what separates a good coach from a grand master level coach is whatever it would be, if you could go back and redo history since 2014, that makes West Coast with this list the dynasty club of the past 5 years. I think we have underachieved with the 1 premiership. I think, looking from outside, if Simpson was a better coach we would probably have achieved more. But it is very difficult to say whether or not he's done basically everything he could and that at the end of the day backing the players in was ultimately the only move and that sometimes its just unfortunate but the players just fall short collectively from taking that extra step from good to great team. History is set on this now, they didn't take that step. Is that on them or is that on Simpson, we will never know and like all history its now irrelevant. Where does our next premiership come from?

2021 is obviously going to be a challenge. I wouldn't put a line through it because we are in the 8 and its very hard to say what can happen when we are only 2/3 through the home and away season and the top 4-5 clubs have basically had no injuries so far. Brisbane lose Hipwood and that puts pressure on them now. The covid situation could mean a non MCG GF for the 2nd year running and WA has 2 teams in the 8 and Optus is the best venue in the land. The AFL literally changes the rules and interpretation of the rules week to week. We have no way of predicting that 2021 couldn't be turned around even by playing the same team every week and the same game plan until the bitter end. Everything is unchartered waters with the AFL and the 2020's. We can't really say Simpson or the senior players in this squad can't close the gap between laughing stock and dual premiership coach and players very fast.

The greatest insight I've ever had into coaching at the elite level came from Malthouse talking during his greatly despised Carlton years when he was about to get the knife from the board due to turning over a massive portion of Rattens list and failing to win a Premiership with his new team within 2 years like was expected of him. He said that as a coach, the only games that mattered to him were the big games and he chose players based on how they performed in big games because thats how you build a team that can win Premierships. Said you will always have a mix of characters in the club and a mix of talents or abilities and that when there aren't really any stakes beyond 4 points, which is most weeks, a lot of players can look very good. And they are good players. But good players are not created equally, and where they are unequal is discovered in big games. And big game players are born for it, not taught. And the way you win big games, is you retain and promote players who have that about them, and you trade or relegate those who don't have that about them. This to me is the ultimate wisdom to coaching AFL football, or any elite sport. I am paraphrasing, and Malthouse always draws lols from people who say he was a failed coach because Collingwood lost those GF's to Brisbane and he disgraced himself at Carlton etc etc. I'll even admit that he was talking about Paul Medhurst as being an exemplar of the big game type of player he was talking about and we all know Medhurst played for Fremantle. So safety ignore that wisdom board.

But my suspicion is this: Simpson does not subscribe to that approach to coaching. I have no doubt that Malthouse would not rate half of our list of untouchables. Darling would not have a career under Malthouse I'm pretty certain of that. Cripps.. Gaff... I mean we all have our favourite whipping boys in the side that we just don't understand how they can underperform for months or even seasons at a time and not ever lose their spot in the 22 but safe to say that Simpson has the opposite approach to coaching than the thing I tried to describe about Mick. I believe that that is the key difference in approach that in the case of this team means all the boys [or most of them] retire with 2018 their only accolade, and Simpson eventually parting ways as a good but not great coach. It could all turn around in the space of a few weeks though and who's to say it won't and Simpson will look like a genius for backing in the boiz. I hope thats what happens.

It's fun to pot Darling about 2015, but he's stood up finals plenty of times for us. Here are some off the top of my head:
- kicked some key goals in 2011 semi against Carlton as a first gamer in his second final
-kicked key goals leading the forward line against pies in semi final
- started on fire in 2017 elimination against Port and was key in setting up our big lead
- came back from nothing in 2nd half of 2018 GF. Anyone who has played any sport knows how mentally tough that would be. Having a dirty day in the biggest game, ghosts of 2015 and all the public scrutiny on his shoulders

No player tears a game apart for 4 quarters. He consistently has his moments in finals, and we would have lost a lot more over the years if he wasn't playing.

 

[Moose1414]

It's fun to pot Darling about 2015, but he's stood up finals plenty of times for us. Here are some off the top of my head:
- kicked some key goals in 2011 semi against Carlton as a first gamer in his second final
-kicked key goals leading the forward line against pies in semi final
- started on fire in 2017 elimination against Port and was key in setting up our big lead
- came back from nothing in 2nd half of 2018 GF. Anyone who has played any sport knows how mentally tough that would be. Having a dirty day in the biggest game, ghosts of 2015 and all the public scrutiny on his shoulders

No player tears a game apart for 4 quarters. He consistently has his moments in finals, and we would have lost a lot more over the years if he wasn't playing.

Fair enough. Still dropped another in the goal square with the game on the line I 2018 but history forgives. Interesting counter narrative you have but I'll just call it as I see it, reckon expectations get the better of Jack when the stakes are high. Nothing personal reckon he's a very good player and deserved his AA Jumper but see him as a bit of a home and away game specialist. My other knocks on him that I haven't mentioned are that twice now, in the first half of 2019 and again early in 2021 the media have stitched him up saying he's the best forward in the game, comparing him to Carey and all that. Both times he immediately fell into a form slump and didn't kick a goal for a month. Can kick 5 in a quarter with ease but has he ever kicked more than 5? Got to 299 goals then got the yips and took weeks to bring up the 300th. Its cruel to point any of this out but reckon its just a fact, deer in the headlights every time expectations reach a tipping point. Those moments that the best live for, seem to be the stuff of nightmares for Jack. I don't see hime going anywhere and his career is now in its twilight so not much to be done about it, up to the player and the club to just work on hacks to keep him in the mental zone where he plays his best football. Clearly a lot of effort goes into this, and I think Simmo was obviously talking about Darling with all of his cryptic comments in the presser post North Melbourne. Sooner or later odds are he breaks the slump, not beyond him to play a key role in whatever finals campaign we cobble together this year either. How good would it be to be down by 5 points with a minute to go and Jack pull in a big mark to be kicking for our lives. He'd be due on luck to slot it I reckon, would be great for him.