Autopsy Round 17, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Melbourne

[wce4premiership]

He does fly in every marking pack which I guess makes him a tall. Who is down at ground level if he is going up.

He would absolutely have permission to do so though. Pretty hard to intercept of he gets a good leap at it.

I see him as far more agile on the ground and yes he needs help but it goes some way to bringing the pressure rating up in the forward 50.

I think a lot of people want Maric in the team, which is fine, but he shouldn't be competing with Hutch given he's 196cm tall.

Maric needs a change of position (which he might have successfully got now) or to push out one of the talls.

I think Hutch is a different style of player that we don't really have up forward at the moment. Different to Cripps, Ryan and Petch although they're probably his main competition (maybe Dewar if they played him forward would be competition also)

 

[Wce17]

Chessers problem isn’t talent. He moves quite well in the traffic, has a turn of pace & is a decent kick.

There’s a player there but he’s getting absolutely torched with this game plan. He does make mistakes like every young player but he’s just not being used when he should be.

The Witherden/Jones ****up up in the last was a good example of that. It should have been a simple handball back to Chesser who would have been away.

Melbourne were using the wingers as an outlet from defence to move the ball fast which is something we just don’t do & refused to use him. We just stop and kick it 50m down the line when a 30m kick to Chesser would draw a player and open things up.

It makes it look like all he is doing is chasing after his man. He’s also getting burnt by the team making simple turnovers when he’s made good position & then he gets burnt the other way.

If we actually had a adequate game plan he’d be going a lot better.

 

[wcns]

+ve did a bit of a mini pub crawl from the G up to Fitzroy North and had chats with random people who were sympathetic of our position, the rebuild, we'll be back etc. Lots of sympathy from Vics

-ve did a bit of a mini pub crawl from the G up to Fitzroy North and had chats with random people who were sympathetic of our position, the rebuild, we'll be back etc. The Vics used to hate and fear us, now they feel sorry for us.

 

[WAFClatfd]

Chessers problem isn’t talent. He moves quite well in the traffic, has a turn of pace & is a decent kick.

There’s a player there but he’s getting absolutely torched with this game plan. He does make mistakes like every young player but he’s just not being used when he should be.

The Witherden/Jones ****up up in the last was a good example of that. It should have been a simple handball back to Chesser who would have been away.

Melbourne were using the wingers as an outlet from defence to move the ball fast which is something we just don’t do & refused to use him. We just stop and kick it 50m down the line when a 30m kick to Chesser would draw a player and open things up.

It makes it look like all he is doing is chasing after his man. He’s also getting burnt by the team making simple turnovers when he’s made good position & then he gets burnt the other way.

If we actually had a adequate game plan he’d be going a lot better.

Doubt it.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

I appreciate everybody that has taken the time to make a post in here, because I think going by the lack of responses most people are just over it.

How many times can we keep talking about the same stuff that’s been happening for the last four years when nothing gets done about it?

Let’s face it, nothing will change until the coach is gone.

 

[GeelongEagle]

Positives

• OA finding some form
• Ryan across the middle of the ground used it well a number of times and ran on different tangents to everyone else
• Although Harley lacked polish, he kept on trying (but time to give the late physical contact a rest and maybe chase a bit more)
• Hutch's tackling stood out
• Imagine if McGovern wasn't there!

Negatives

• Way too many to list, but that handball from JJ to Witherden sums us up at the moment. We have simply forgotten how to play. Earlier this year, that would have been the launchpad for an inside 50. Slow kicks up the line. Long bombs to a pack in the forward line. The dicky little 15m kick sideways in defence. We are either poorly coached, or can't listen to the coach. Either way, Simmo is cooked.
• We let yet another bunch of youngsters make us look stupid (Tholstrop, Windsor, McVee and Wakefield).

 

[mitchzz]

We are so uncreative out of defence. We need a designated guy to get the ball to who can break lines and pinpoint passes. We need to use the handball more, even if it means not knowing where we're going...

Instead we have a bunch of vanilla guys who take the easy sideways kick and then have no leads provided so kick long down the line

It's so predictable

 

[GeelongEagle]

We are so uncreative out of defence. We need a designated guy to get the ball to who can break lines and pinpoint passes. We need to use the handball more, even if it means not knowing where we're going...

Instead we have a bunch of vanilla guys who take the easy sideways kick and then have no leads provided so kick long down the line

It's so predictable

That used to be Hunt. And then it was JJ. And they were both pretty good at it most of the time. Sadly they have been coached out of that.

 

[Dustland_fairytale]

Took my 4 year old along to his first game ever today. Fair to say he has no interest in going again because "the bad guys (dees) keep winning. Why do our guys keep finishing last (he means conceding goals all the time)?"

Bloody good question! Why do we keep sucking when the players own their performances and Simmo keeps learning a lot after every loss?

At last week’s game my grandson (6) says to his dad “can I pick another team that wins?” My son replied - you shouldn’t really change teams - think of it as having to choose a new mummy……he is still on board…….for now


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cuzz09]

saw an article that said this...

The Eagles were more competitive after half-time, and actually slaughtered the Demons at stoppage and territory, but they fell down badly on the outside

Any stats purely for 2nd half?

can't find much

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[eaglesfan84]

Positives +

• Still in contention of a top 3 pick and a priority pick.
• Another week closer till Simmo's departure.
• Allen finding his groove again. Could've had six at least if he kicked straight.
• Waterman working hard again and made the most of his chances.
• Darling competed well in the ruck and was ok forward. Still got two shots at goal with the supply the team bought. However structurally he isn't ideal to be that third forward ruck guy, that should be J.Williams.
• Got the forwards enough supply as we tied them in inside 50s. No surprising that Allen and Waterman were effective when they had supply.
• Yeo a beast again, was our best midfielder.
• Reid was quiet in the first half before being good in the second half. Fumbles a bit too much for me.
• Improved second half.
• Bailey holding his own against Gawn in the ruck and nullified is impact around the ground when Gawn was on the ground.
• Kelly was good however prone to the odd clanger although part of the reason is not having enough forwards ahead of the ball.
• Duggan gave it his all and didn't butcher the ball as much.
• Cole was solid.
• Hough was great again and provided some overlap run.
• Gov in potential AA form, the only key defender who actually rebounds and takes the game on. Took some nice intercepts. If he plays all year and isn't in the AA team then I will go full nuclear melt.
• Barrass also good, not a rebounding threat as Gov though but great interceptor.
• J.Williams showing limited glimpses in the short time he was there.

Meh =

= Hutch showing glimpses of the best talent in that MSD in junk time. Just needs more of it but shouldn't be in the team when there's three KPFs. Unfortunately got burnt too many times. Was quiet for the first three quarters though and shouldn't be in the side.
= Hunt tried against his old side but wasn't bad.
= Rotham did an ok job against Fritsch and killed a lot of contests.
= Chesser was ok but should've done more.
= Cripps was decent, worked hard but failing to get to Darling or to whoever was clear in the F50 made my blood boil.

Negatives -

• No structure around the ground. Too many players getting sucked in defence and leaving no one ahead of the ball when the team transistions.
• Witherden, Jones and Brockman were god awful. I've been defending Jones for a while but this is absolute trash from him, not using the ball well such as putting Witherden under pressure. Brockman, just doesn't have confidence at the moment and lacks composure which he was rightfully subbed out. Witherden isn't finding the ball as much and his lack of pace is getting exposed when the team attacks and on the transition.
• Too many talls upfront which allowed the Dees to rebound it out at will as too many of our players get sucked into the contest and not enough crumbers and the tall crumbers don't have the agility to catch any agile smaller rebounders. Guess who was the sub??? That's right a tall.
• Smashed in contested possessions. Just the players hunger not there in winning the ball at the coalface. Better off giving Ginbey extended time there as a full time mid.
• Also smashed on the outside.

Final thoughts.

When the team gets enough supply, Waterman and Allen become more effective. It's clear to me that the team NEEDS to abandon having an overly tall forward line as teams can easily waltz it out. Unfortunately, Darling and Hutch shouldn't play next week and we bring J.Williams as the second ruck in place of Darling.

Unpopular opinion: Harley for me seems too fumbly and lacks the defensive running ability, maybe that will come if he improves his tank and plays more. I have a feeling that BS suspension on him combined with the bye greatly affected his game as he looks disinterested and not chasing as hard enough especially when in close. I know he will get better as he plays more later in the year and when Hewett returns to the senior side once he's done well in the WAFL.

Simmo may as well tell the team to yolo when transitioning AND tell his players to stay ahead of the ball at all times and trust the midfield and defenders that they will win it and if they concede points then so be it and getting forwards sucked up the ground will further stifle ball movement. Plus permanently abandon the four tall forward lineup for good. Doing those two things at least will at least lead to more respectable losing margins. He may as well help the club before it's time to go at least.

I disagree with a lot of what you've said

 

[eaglesfan84]

I don’t know whether it’s the worst list or worst coaching.

Other teams just cut through us with no attempt or ability or organisation to disrupt their movement.

I think this is starting to look more accurate, as time goes on its the one common denominator.

 

[eaglesfan84]

As a long time member here in Melbourne, today was the final straw for on whether i renew next year, and that is a big no. Today i choose football over a game of golf hoping i would see some effort and all the talk from the players on how they own it after last weeks poor effort, they owned nothing in the first quarter with how easy Melbourne moved the ball, it has been 3 years of absolute tripe, and it ain't going to get better in the next few years. I am done supporting the club financially. I fully understand the club will not give a crap as they have plenty of money, but it will give me choices as to whether i turn up on game day, much like the players do.


As i posted in the game day thread, i was behind the goals at the Ponsford stand end, and our game plan is ****ing terrible, the backs work their asses of to win the ball back, and when they look up the ground we all run to the one side and stand there, some might raise their hand, but that is the end of it, the creativity has been coached out of them by Simmo and his co horts, what coach in any sporting event keeps his job after 8 wins in 3 years.


Our list is terrible, and a 5 yr rebuild is a pipe dream IMO, watching today's game the only players that could possibly be part of our next finals run, could be Reid ( if he still at the club, i doubt he will ) - Ginbey- Hough- Waterman - Allan - J Williams.

The rest will either be retired or delisted/moved on. That is how much turnover i believe is still to go to build a competitive list.

I think you're judging the playing list too harshly. I think we need to see these guys coached by a different coach to get some perspective.

 

[eaglesfan84]

He does fly in every marking pack which I guess makes him a tall. Who is down at ground level if he is going up.

Ryan does this too, so we literally only have Cripps as a crumber, who isn't really an attacking forward that crumbs well

 

[eaglesfan84]

Doubt it.

Shit attitude.

 

[Magnum27]

I think you're judging the playing list too harshly. I think we need to see these guys coached by a different coach to get some perspective.

Maybe, but we have whole lot playing yesterday who either at the end of their carrers or who have peaked, and others who have just don't have it, or are just starting out.

Of yesterday's team.


May be part of our next finals series if we are lucky.

Oscar
Jake
Harley- although i think he will be gone
Rueben
Jack Williams
Hough
Ryan

Already peaked or closer to the end of their careers
Gov
Barrass
Cole
Duggan
Cripps
Yeo
Darling
Hunt
Kelly
Witherden

Will not getter better, and most likely not get a game anywhere else
Rotham
Bailey
Jones

May be better in a better system
Chesser
Brockman
Hutchinson

This is why i see the rebuild being longer than 5 years, especially when you look at who is either injured or playing in the WAFL. I really hope i'm wrong though.

 

[Magnum27]

saw an article that said this...

The Eagles were more competitive after half-time, and actually slaughtered the Demons at stoppage and territory, but they fell down badly on the outside

Any stats purely for 2nd half?

can't find much

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Would have been nice for them to be up for the fight in the first when it mattered the most.

 

[eagles rule]

I think you're judging the playing list too harshly. I think we need to see these guys coached by a different coach to get some perspective.

The team effort that beat Freo was pretty good ..
So there is something to work with there , is it all mental or they don’t want to play for Simmo if he pisses them off ie : The Adelaide crap the players dished up ..


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Knifey Spoony]

I apologise for the overly negative post but there are few, if any, positives to take from yesterday's game.

Going into this season I accepted that wins would be few and far between but was excited to see some green shoots from our future players. Harley aside we have barely had that, especially lately.

With only a handful of games left, surely it is time to give the Hall and Burgiel types a crack and see how they go. Hutchy did not show much in the WAFL last week but had a couple of moments yesterday. Sometimes a few moments from a few youngsters is all we need to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[southcoast]

Going into this season I accepted that wins would be few and far between but was excited to see some green shoots from our future players. Harley aside we have barely had that, especially lately.

Like you I didn’t expect a lot going into this season. Liked the green shoots we saw earlier through the season; got flogged early but endeavour was there, closed up against Sydney and then pinched a few good wins.

Then someone pissed on our green shoots and it’s been downhill since.

But,
Positives
Waterman, continues to get a few goals each week.
McGovern, again did what he does best.
Some patches from the midfield group but need to see more sustained efforts.
Hutchinson good tackle count.

Negatives
Baffled by selection table decisions.
The smaller defenders need a reality check - if that means giving someone from the twos a crack, so be it. We’re not improving with current crop.
Needs of club need to be ahead of individuals - Darling has to be dropped. Nursing him to 300 is an indictment on him and club to think that’s ok.
Cripps has moments - but shizen the gap between best and worst is growing, and we’re not seeing best that often.
Brockman - showed a bit in midfield a couple of weeks ago. Now sent to HFF to rot. Turn up at one centre bounce yesterday and showed intent. Now likely to be Sen back to twos.
JWilliams - sub. Mind blowing decision by MC.
Continued use of tall slow, forwards - stats have been jumping of pages showing ball get run out of our forward line too easily.
Forward patterns - no separation, kick to pack near boundary line. I’d think we’d be a very easy team to defend against.



On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Footfalcon]

In the first half a dozen games people were complaining because Jones wasn't getting a game, now they are complaining he is getting a game.
The coaches were right the first time.

Such a shame because he really knows how to find the football and break lines with his pace and spatial awareness, we really needed a player like him to be able to lace kicks consistently

 

[KERRPOW]

Given where we are in the premiership-o-clock. Its completely mind boggling that darling is getting a game with a near full strength list of tall forwards.

Cripps - Waterman - Jwill
Hutch - Allen - Ryan

that should be our starting fwd line up.

 

[Cuzz09]

anywhere I can find 2nd half stats?

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[flyinghi64]

Gov and Barrass are single/double handedly keeping the 100 pt defeats at bay.
We have a couple of great forwards who could combine for 6-8 goals weekly with better delivery.
Yeo, Kelly, Reid, Ginbey, Ryan good midfield that just doesn't bat deep enough.

Turnovers after a lot of hard work trying to keep the ball and move it forward just kill us.
It seems we work so hard to get it and keep it that when it does eventually turnover, which it will, the players are either gassed or give up and it is the same handful of players trying to cover half a team and continually are out numbered.
How often when the oppo runs it to their 50 we have one or two players covering 3 or 4.

Game plan, fitness, attitude, want and will to win. Some or all are missing and it makes for very hard viewing.

 

[Goroyals22]

Such a shame because he really knows how to find the football and break lines with his pace and spatial awareness, we really needed a player like him to be able to lace kicks consistently

Shame he can’t bend down to pick up the ball, shirks contests, misses simple target, throws team mates into trouble like witho yesterday, can’t defend and has no forward pressure ..


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com