Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[WalshistheGOAT]

So now that he has turned into a 21 year old contested beast, your nitpick is staging??

You do realise he gets paid about 1/5th of the free kicks he should be payed during any game, especially when tagged. (Which is every week now BTW), and you keep posting one instance against Sydney when he tried to milk a free kick. Not sure if you’ve played the game at any level, but everyone who has ever pulled on a pair of boots would be guilty of trying to milk a few free kicks throughout their careers.

If this is your way of “judging” a footballer then I don’t think it really matters what your opinion is because all of the greatest players to ever play our game staged for frees on a weekly basis.

I've posted half a dozen clips above of him blatantly staging which you've clearly chosen to ignore. Can't help if you've got selective vision

 

[Do the Dew]

You're saying Martin, in his first three seasons, was way more impactful than Daicos has been in his first three seasons?

Just want to ensure I'm interpreting your comment correctly.

Well Daicos so far has averaged 26 and 0.3, 31 and 0.9, 30 and 0.9.

Don't get me wrong, that's obviously very good, but he also getting cheap possessions from his teammates. For example, in his first 3 years, Dusty averaged 9.3, 8.8, 8.5 contested possessions. Daicos has averaged 6.3, 8.9, 14.4. So almost half of Dusty's possessions were contested, whereas about a third of Daicos's are.

 

[Fadge]

20+ touches, 1+ goal a game is considered elite/rare

6 players, currently sitting in that bracket this year, only 3 last year, 3 the year before

So, a player to do it over a combined first 3 years, absolutely more impactful

So you've gone with a random stat to conclude the 'impact' of a player, as opposed to determining who has had more impact/influence on games, including finals, based on watching those games?

Interesting way to assess 'impact'.

If you said Martin had more 'impact' between 2017 and 2020 than Daicos has so far, you'd have a fair point. And you wouldn't need to reference a stats sheet in an attempt to make that point..

 

[Fadge]

Well Daicos so far has averaged 26 and 0.3, 31 and 0.9, 30 and 0.9.

Don't get me wrong, that's obviously very good, but he also getting cheap possessions from his teammates. For example, in his first 3 years, Dusty averaged 9.3, 8.8, 8.5 contested possessions. Daicos has averaged 6.3, 8.9, 14.4. So almost half of Dusty's possessions were contested, whereas about a third of Daicos's are.

So because Martin got less possessions, his stats are better because a greater percentage of his possessions were contested (despite Daicos' raw number of contested possessions being higher)?

FMD.

 

[Do the Dew]

So you've gone with a random stat to conclude the 'impact' of a player, as opposed to determining who has had more impact/influence on games, including finals, based on watching those games?

Interesting way to assess 'impact'.

If you said Martin had more 'impact' between 2017 and 2020 than Daicos has so far, you'd have a fair point. And you wouldn't need to reference a stats sheet in an attempt to make that point..

Dusty in his first 3 years had more inside 50s and similar goal assists. Again playing in a shit team.

 

[Do the Dew]

So because Martin got less possessions, his stats are better because a greater percentage of his possessions were contested (despite Daicos' raw number of contested possessions being higher)?

FMD.

Possession numbers have steadily increased so yeah it's relevant. And the averages are still fairly similar anyway. Becomes even closer after you take away the contested possessions that Daicos gets due to free kicks, as he's averaged more than Dusty.

The whole point is that you and other Pies ppl here have claimed that Daicos's first 3 years are beyond anything we've ever seen. I looked at 1 example and found comparable stats. Clearly it's not Daicos and daylight.

 

[Arr0w]

So you've gone with a random stat to conclude the 'impact' of a player, as opposed to determining who has had more impact/influence on games, including finals, based on watching those games?

That criteria is from one of your favourite sources, the meedja

Interesting way to assess 'impact'.

Let's be clear, many other ways to judge impact

If you said Martin had more 'impact' between 2017 and 2020 than Daicos has so far, you'd have a fair point. And you wouldn't need to reference a stats sheet in an attempt to make that point..

You don't get to dictate what is deemed fair, in terms of impact and when

Stats sound be assessed parallel to vision, each players strengths and weaknesses

 

[beerbandit]

I've posted half a dozen clips above of him blatantly staging which you've clearly chosen to ignore. Can't help if you've got selective vision

It doesn’t matter what you think on GOATcos anymore Walshy.

Your bias is obvious, and your reasoning for not “liking” him is out of sync with all the greats gone before him.

 

[Fadge]

Possession numbers have steadily increased so yeah it's relevant. And the averages are still fairly similar anyway. Becomes even closer after you take away the contested possessions that Daicos gets due to free kicks, as he's averaged more than Dusty.

The whole point is that you and other Pies ppl here have claimed that Daicos's first 3 years are beyond anything we've ever seen. I looked at 1 example and found comparable stats. Clearly it's not Daicos and daylight.

Possession numbers have increases since Martin debuted, when GAJ and Swan were running around getting 40 a week?

FMD.

And more contested possessions due to more free kicks?

In their first two seasons, Daicos received 55 free kicks, Martin 45.

So 0.23 addition contested possessions due to free kicks per game, due to the fact Daicos was getting a lot more of the ball, and was in the vicinity of the ball much more regularly.

FMD.

 

[Gone Critical]

Possession numbers have steadily increased so yeah it's relevant. And the averages are still fairly similar anyway. Becomes even closer after you take away the contested possessions that Daicos gets due to free kicks, as he's averaged more than Dusty.

The whole point is that you and other Pies ppl here have claimed that Daicos's first 3 years are beyond anything we've ever seen. I looked at 1 example and found comparable stats. Clearly it's not Daicos and daylight.

Its all subjective and I agree Dusty had a really great career start.

Subjective again but plenty of experts were discussing Daicos as the best or most infuential player in the comp in his 2nd year, not just the best young player.

Now you may say he wasnt the best in your opinion but you would be hard pressed to say he wasn't well in the discussion. I dont think anyone was talking about Dusty in that conversation year 2. I think it is mainly Daicos/Sheezel and daylight to most other players who were great early. Judd probably next or Selwood

 

[CCurnow3votes]

N Daicos is to GOAT , what J. Biden is to articulation!

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Had a friend from CD hook me up with some stats to clarify any question marks on Nicky's inside game and toughness so I asked him to compare his ball winning modes to Cripps this season and woweeee... Perhaps the uncontested squib tag was correct after all.


Cripps vs Daicos 2024

Hard Balls
86 - 30
Loose Balls
72 - 117
Contested Possessions
244 - 231

Hard Ball/CP%
35% - 13%

Loose Ball/CP%
29.5% - 50.6%

Ground balls
64 - 65


Interestingly when Nick was copping it the most about his inability to win a contested ball by fans on here the stats were -

R0-R8 Hard Balls 36 - 9

Just over 1 hard ball per game by Nicky

 

[Fadge]

Had a friend from CD hook me up with some stats to clarify any question marks on Nicky's inside game and toughness so I asked him to compare his ball winning modes to Cripps this season and woweeee... Perhaps the uncontested squib tag was correct after all.


Cripps vs Daicos 2024

Hard Balls
86 - 30
Loose Balls
72 - 117
Contested Possessions
244 - 231

Hard Ball/CP%
35% - 13%

Loose Ball/CP%
29.5% - 50.6%

Ground balls
64 - 65


Interestingly when Nick was copping it the most about his inability to win a contested ball by fans on here the stats were -

R0-R8 Hard Balls 36 - 9

Just over 1 hard ball per game by Nicky

So if in fact that data is accurate (and forgive me for questioning your integrity), what you're saying is that Cripps uses his size and strength to get 'hard balls' which would generally result in handballs to better ball users in space, whilst Daicos uses his pace to get 'loose balls' and generally be out in space to use it to his team's benefit?

Whoever would have thought?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So if in fact that data is accurate (and forgive me for questioning your integrity), what you're saying is that Cripps uses his size and strength to get 'hard balls' which would generally result in handballs to better ball users in space, whilst Daicos uses his pace to get 'loose balls' and generally be out in space to use it to his team's benefit?

Whoever would have thought?

The data is accurate. I wouldn't pretend to have data unavailable to the public to make a point. Exaggerate what I've seen on TV perhaps, but this is straight from Hoyne's mob. But yes, it shows Daicos is miles behind one of the league leaders in hard balls which is one of the main criticisms of his game by posters on here.

I'd imagine most people discussing players in the GOAT conversation would have ability in the hard ball game as something fairly high on their list of requirements. I certainly don't remember GAJ or Judd for their uncontested stuff.

 

[Fadge]

I'd imagine most people discussing players in the GOAT conversation would have ability in the hard ball game as something fairly high on their list of requirements. I certainly don't remember GAJ or Judd for their uncontested stuff.

So out of interest, what is the data like for GAJ and Judd?

What about someone like Gulden, or Heeney this year?

When analysing data, it is usually a good idea to compare apples with apples.

I wouldn't expect Daicos to be in the same postcode as Cripps when talking about 'hard ball gets', in the same way I don't expect Cripps to be in the same postcode as Daicos if vision, decision making and skill execution were measured.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So out of interest, what is the data like for GAJ and Judd?

What about someone like Gulden, or Heeney this year?

When analysing data, it is usually a good idea to compare apples with apples.

I wouldn't expect Daicos to be in the same postcode as Cripps when talking about 'hard ball gets', in the same way I don't expect Cripps to be in the same postcode as Daicos if vision, decision making and skill execution were measured.

I'd have to ask them and get back to you. I'd think Judd and GAJ would have been fairly prolific in the hard balls over their careers from watching them.

 

[Worm4]

So out of interest, what is the data like for GAJ and Judd?

What about someone like Gulden, or Heeney this year?

When analysing data, it is usually a good idea to compare apples with apples.

I wouldn't expect Daicos to be in the same postcode as Cripps when talking about 'hard ball gets', in the same way I don't expect Cripps to be in the same postcode as Daicos if vision, decision making and skill execution were measured.

Cripps took 33 contested marks in his first 59 games ( 3 full seasons plus 3 in his first year )plus 75 hitouts

 

[Fadge]

Cripps took 33 contested marks in his first 59 games ( 3 full seasons plus 3 in his first year )plus 75 hitouts

That's nice.

How many flags, and how many Brownlow, MVP and Coaches Award placings?

Because Daicos had one of each in only his second season.

 

[Fadge]

I'd have to ask them and get back to you. I'd think Judd and GAJ would have been fairly prolific in the hard balls over their careers from watching them.

So Gulden? Heeney?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So Gulden? Heeney?

I don't have free access to Champion Data info Fadge, as I said, I asked a friend who came back to me with the Cripps v Daicos information who works there. If you'd like me to ask him about Gulden and Heeney I can but I'm assuming you don't really care that much, you just want to divert attention from Daicos being so low in hard balls compared to a true contested player like Cripps.

 

[Fadge]

I don't have free access to Champion Data info Fadge, as I said, I asked a friend who came back to me with the Cripps v Daicos information who works there. If you'd like me to ask him about Gulden and Heeney I can but I'm assuming you don't really care that much, you just want to divert attention from Daicos being so low in hard balls compared to a true contested player like Cripps.

No. I'd just like you to compare apples with apples.

I could have told you the data for Cripps v. Daicos would be about what was provided. They're very different players FFS.

If I was looking to get data to prove some sort of point on an internet forum, I'd want to get a lot more data than what you have sought.

 

[Worm4]

That's nice.

How many flags, and how many Brownlow, MVP and Coaches Award placings?

Because Daicos had one of each in only his second season.

Not as many flags as Castagna from Richmond
Cute you've brought it down a level to podium finishes

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

No. I'd just like you to compare apples with apples.

I could have told you the data for Cripps v. Daicos would be about what was provided. They're very different players FFS.

If I was looking to get data to prove some sort of point on an internet forum, I'd want to get a lot more data than what you have sought.

I thought 86 - 30 hard ball gets was a pretty significant bit of data. Just shows that Daicos really isn't in the same stratosphere when it comes to winning his own ball when it's there to be won, which lines up with the criticism that he's much more of an outside player despite what his contested ball numbers suggest.

 

[Worm4]

I thought 86 - 30 hard ball gets was a pretty significant bit of data. Just shows that Daicos really isn't in the same stratosphere when it comes to winning his own ball when it's there to be won, which lines up with the criticism that he's much more of an outside player despite what his contested ball numbers suggest.

Plus cripps has actually won an MVP , and a brownlow, and it's not speculative.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Plus cripps has actually won an MVP , and a brownlow, and it's not speculative.

Could go again in both of them this year too if he finishes the year well.