PIES v SAINTS - that was an awesome NAB cup match

[KissStephanie]

I cite forward structure, KS talks about forward talent.

A forward line that is not at full strength lacks structure, therefore of course St.Kilda's forward line last week had more structure than Collingwood's. It included their five leading goalkickers from last season which is a far more solid base. Collingwood on the hand were improvising more.

I don't know if you, KS, feel that I am not addressing the issues you raise, but I am trying. I, however, feel that you are not addressing the issues I raise, and the example I cite here is a good one.

I'm sitting here unsure of what you want me to say. It seems that you're not happy with my previous response and I don't know why.

I did say that St Kilda were cleaner and more accurate, which were observations I arrived at from attending the game. This is the same way I allocate votes for my B&F. Sometimes the statistics tell a different story to the one that is told to you when you are at a match.

St.Kilda weren't cleaner and more accurate with the ball though, and although I wasn't at the match, I noticed that as I was watching it live before I looked at the statistics which only emphasised what I had seen.

And finally, it wouldn't be the first time people in the football world didn't think there was going to be any improvement from the players already at St Kilda last season, in the new season. I disagree, and the performance of Al Smith and Rhys Stanley was encouraging in this regard.

Alistair Smith's performance was very good. It is clear that he is a mature aged player already. Rhys Stanley was promising, and he may do some good things from time to time again as he did last week, although I don't believe he will have a lot of impact this year.

 

[Ricmel]

Still can't apologise for calling me a liar Steph?....you pussy.

 

[krusden]

Excuse my ignorance but is KS slightly ******ed?

no. angry and deluded spring to mind.

 

[Falchoon]

because the order I would put those important players in would be...

1. Lenny Hayes
2. Nick Dal Santo
3. Josh Fraser
4. Jason Gram
5. Shane O'Bree
6. Jack Anthony
7. Michael Gardiner

Luke Ball is the second coming because he had a good Grand Final in limited minutes. Jason Gram ties in the voting for the Norm Smith medal and is ranked behind Josh "I'm scared of physical contact" Fraser.

Consistency of argument is underrated.

Never mind that Gardiner dominated Fraser in both encounters last year in both KS stat speak and in real life.

 

[The Punter]

I remember seeing this photo and thinking it was emblematic of how both players went last year.

 

[kosifantutti]

Oh for goodness sake. You clearly have little to say regarding the topic, and now you think that you're some sore of grammar police. There is nothing worse that someone pulling others up on spelling errors, typos and grammar on BigFooty, particularly when it was so minor because my English is exceptional.

How ironic it is that you can't spell "delusional." People that live in glass houses should not throw stones. If you're going to attempt to insult another poster, then at least learn to spell the key word correctly, otherwise it makes you look like a complete dill.

Are you some SORE of spelling police now or just a dill?

 

[Murraj1966]

Wow, just wow. It's usually idiots who say this but honestly. TL;DR.

 

[Ricmel]

It's usually idiots who say this but honestly.

She is an idiot. And a coward.

 

[KissStephanie]

Luke Ball is the second coming because he had a good Grand Final in limited minutes.

That's a bit unfair to base that on one match only. He certainly did more for St.Kilda than just have a good Grand Final in 47% game time, so therefore I'm not so sure about it being a "second coming." He maintained his season averages since he was All-Australian as I have mentioned a number of times previously, despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon, and his best match for the season was against Hawthorn in Round 19 as I have also mentioned more than once. I just believe that his best footy is ahead of him.

Jason Gram ties in the voting for the Norm Smith medal and is ranked behind Josh "I'm scared of physical contact" Fraser.

My opinion is based on more that one match though and the role they play, and thanks Grant Thomas for your unfounded opinion regarding Josh Fraser. Last season Fraser played 16 home and away matches while Michael Gardiner played in 17 home and away matches. Despite playing one less match, Fraser had significantly more contested possessions, tackles, and 1%'s. Therefore it seems that Gardiner is not prepared to do the hard stuff as Fraser is, so maybe he is afraid of breaking the nail on his pinky finger. He did take 13 contested marks in one extra match to Fraser's 10 contested marks though.

Consistency of argument is underrated.

I completely disagree with you, so what exactly are you on about?

Never mind that Gardiner dominated Fraser in both encounters last year in both KS stat speak and in real life.

Ha ha ha! He didn't do any such thing. Fraser played half a game in Rpund 7 due to injury which forced himto miss the following match. His last match for the season was in the Qualifying Final against St.Kilda because he hurt himself again and he couldn't even jump due to his knee problem. Despite not being able to play the entire match on either occasion, Gardiner was fair at best against no opposition in both of those two matches.

 

[Falchoon]

That's a bit unfair to base that on one match only. He certainly did more for St.Kilda than just have a good Grand Final in 47% game time, so therefore I'm not so sure about it being a "second coming." He maintained his season averages since he was All-Australian as I have mentioned a number of times previously, despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon, and his best match for the season was against Hawthorn in Round 19 as I have also mentioned more than once.

as I have debunked more than once

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16709880&postcount=153

b) Total AFL disposals in 2005 was 117,756, in 2009 it was 138,359. That is an increase of 127 disposals per game. Blindly quoting that someone has managed to remain stationary whilst the game has moved forward and past them is statistical analysis at it's most basic level. The game has changed, Luke Ball has not.

That said, and I wil happily say it again, I don't think his defensive side has dropped off and he has always played with great courage and hunger but that running/linking with accurate disposal game now needed to get through the Clarko clusters or Lyons zoning or even Mick's boundary line strategy is not his strength and it is indeed unfortunate as pure footballers like Luke should not be lost to the game.

The fact that Luke's best 2 games of the year were in wet weather football where St Kilda had 321 & 341 possessions against a seasons average of nearly 400 highlights this.

It's like a 1995 Formula 1 car pulling the same times in 2010, sure it's great that it's pulling the same lap times, it's just that everyone else is now going 5 seconds quicker

and thanks Grant Thomas for your unfounded opinion regarding Josh Fraser.

Sure, I would have never come up with that conclusion on my own after watching him for 10 years.

Last season Fraser played 16 home and away matches while Michael Gardiner played in 17 home and away matches. Despite playing one less match, Fraser had significantly more contested possessions, tackles, and 1%'s. Therefore it seems that Gardiner is not prepared to do the hard stuff as Fraser is, so maybe he is afraid of breaking the nail on his pinky finger. He did take 13 contested marks in one extra match to Fraser's 10 contested marks though.

Fraser averaged 93 minutes per game, Gardiner 73 minutes, feel free to use the same rationale as you're arguing above with Luke Ball.

As as I said your complete lack of consistency in argument lets you down

I completely disagree with you, so what exactly are you on about?

exactly that again, there's nothing wrong with always looking on the bright side, just do it consistently.

Ha ha ha! He didn't do any such thing. Fraser played half a game in Rpund 7 due to injury. His last match for the season was in the Qualifying Final against St.Kilda because he hurt himself again and he couldn't even jump due to his knee problem. Despite not being able to play the entire match both times, Gardiner was average at best in both of those two matches.

Round 8
Fraser ruck contests 49 hit outs 17
Gardiner ruck contests 47 hit outs 31


Final
Fraser ruck contests 52 Hit outs 12
Gardiner ruck contests 38 Hit outs 17

Ouch

 

[Ricmel]

As as I said your complete lack of consistency in argument lets you down

The cow won't stand behind her words. In fact she'll claim she never said them.

 

[KissStephanie]

as I have debunked more than once

Debunked? Ha ha ha! Firstly, you haven't "debunked" anything of course. All you have done is given an unfounded theory. To me it's like a 9/11 conspiracy theorist claiming they have debunked the real truth behind the attack on the WTC buildings and that al-Qaeda were not responsible after all. Secondly, if you read my post carefully in the first place, then you would have realised that your theory is irrelevant anyway. I simply stated that Luke Ball has maintained his averages since he was All-Australian despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon, and this theory of yours doesn't alter that at all whatsoever.

Sure, I would have never come up with that conclusion on my own after watching him for 10 years.

Maybe you need the glasses that another poster in this thread also needs. That particular poster mistakenly felt that St.Kilda were cleaner and more accurate with their disposal last week from what he saw at the match when it wasn't the case at all. You suggested that Josh Fraser plays as if he doesn't want to get hurt, which is unfounded and inaccurate.

Fraser averaged 93 minutes per game, Gardiner 73 minutes, feel free to use the same rationale as you're arguing above with Luke Ball.

Not according to the information that I have regarding the 22 home and away matches. Josh Fraser averaged 84 minutes of game time and he played one less match. Michael Gardiner averaged 77 minutes and he played one extra match. Not only that, but if you had read my post carefully in the first place, then you would have seen that I said Fraser had significantly more contested possessions, tackles, and 1%'s in one less match, which is true.

Even if your information is correct, it is irrelevant anyway because Fraser still had more contested possessions, tackles and 1%'s per minutes on the field. Therefore it seems that Gardiner is not prepared to do the hard things as Fraser is, and maybe he is afraid of breaking the nail on his pinky finger, just as I had said in my previous post.

As as I said your complete lack of consistency in argument lets you down

It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that. There is nothing that I have seen you write in this post or your previous post that supports this. I think you seem to think that I based my opinion of Luke Ball solely on his limited game time in the Grand Final when I did not do that at any time.

exactly that again, there's nothing wrong with always looking on the bright side, just do it consistently.

Again, please do not refer to me as a hypocrite when you have failed to show a single example of this. It seems to me that you're just making this up to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that. Either that, or you completely fail to understand the words that are written in my posts because you have failed to read them thoroughly before responding. There is nothing that I stated in any of the Luke Ball threads that shows a lack of consistency to anything in this thread. There is nothing in this thread that shows a lack of consistency to other posts that I have made in this thread.

Round 8
Fraser ruck contests 49 hit outs 17
Gardiner ruck contests 47 hit outs 31

It was Round 7, and Josh Fraser aggravated his knee injury during that match. He stayed on the ground before being forced from the field, and he missed the following match due to the injury. Despite that, Michael Gardiner was not in St.Kilda's best fifteen players, so to suggest that he dominated Fraser is quite a stretch indeed.

Final
Fraser ruck contests 52 Hit outs 12
Gardiner ruck contests 38 Hit outs 17

Josh Fraser aggravated his knee injury during that match. He couldn't jump, and it was his last match of the season because of that injury. Despite that, Michael Gardiner was not in St.Kilda's best fifteen players, so to suggest that he dominated Fraser is quite a stretch indeed.

Ouch

What happened? Did you sit on a pr1ck? There seems to be a pattern in these last two posts of yours. For some reason you seem to have either failed to read my posts thoroughly, or made things up to suit yourself. Please don't do that any more.

 

[Falchoon]

Debunked? Ha ha ha! Firstly, you haven't "debunked" anything of course. All you have done is given an unfounded theory.

Unfounded?

any one of "your" sources will tell you Total AFL disposals in 2005 was 117,756, in 2009 it was 138,359.

To me it's like a 9/11 conspiracy theorist claiming they have debunked the real truth behind the attack on the WTC buildings and that al-Qaeda were not responsible after all.

Yawn

It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that. There is nothing that I have seen you write in this post or your previous post that supports this.

Secondly, if you read my post carefully in the first place, then you would have realised that your theory is irrelevant anyway. I simply stated that Luke Ball has maintained his averages since he was All-Australian despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon, and this theory of yours doesn't alter that at all whatsoever.

I agree, stat wise he remained stationary while the AFL moved ahead

How did his supercoach average shape up? I know you how you like to use supercoach stats to suit a point

Maybe you need the glasses that another poster in this thread also needs. That particular poster mistakenly felt that St.Kilda were cleaner and more accurate with their disposal last week from what he saw at the match when it wasn't the case at all.

Very interesting

You suggested that Josh Fraser plays as if he doesn't want to get hurt, which is unfounded and inaccurate.

It seems to me that you're just making this up to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that.

I suggested Josh Fraser plays as though he doesn't like physical contact,

Not according to the information that I have regarding the 22 home and away matches. Josh Fraser averaged 84 minutes of game time and he played one less match. Michael Gardiner averaged 77 minutes and he played one extra match.

KS stats have no source

Here's mine

http://www.prowess.com.au/the-news/60-best-in-afl-statistics.html

Not only that, but if you had read my post carefully in the first place, then you would have seen that I said Fraser had significantly more contested possessions, tackles, and 1%'s in one less match, which is true.

and 223 less hit outs in 2 hours more of game time which is also true

Even if your information is correct,

which it is, Josh Fraser played 3 less games BTW and 120 more minutes

it is irrelevant anyway because Fraser still had more contested possessions, tackles and 1%'s per minutes on the field. Therefore it seems that Gardiner is not prepared to do the hard things as Fraser is,

other than ruckwork

and maybe he is afraid of breaking the nail on his pinky finger, just as I had said in my previous post.It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that.

.It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that.

please do not refer to me as a hypocrite when you have failed to show a single example of this.

cough

It seems to me that you're just making this up (or selectively using stats) to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that. Either that, or you completely fail to understand the words that are written in my posts because you have failed to read them thoroughly before responding.

There is nothing that I stated in any of the Luke Ball threads that shows a lack of consistency to anything in this thread. There is nothing in this thread that shows a lack of consistency to other posts that I have made in this thread.

Definitely not, your ability to repeat the same point as nauseum and to show zero understanding of any rebuttal is an ability that shows no lack of consistency at all.

It was Round 7, and Josh Fraser aggravated his knee injury during that match. He stayed on the ground before being forced from the field, and he missed the following match due to the injury.

Fortunately he had made a complete recovery by round 9

Despite that, Michael Gardiner was not in St.Kilda's best fifteen players,

you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser

so to suggest that he dominated Fraser is quite a stretch indeed.

Other than by watching it or through your beloved stats

Just for me, because I know you'll ignore them again

Fraser ruck contests 49 hit outs 17
Gardiner ruck contests 47 hit outs 31

Josh Fraser aggravated his knee injury during that match. He couldn't jump, and it was his last match of the season because of that injury. Despite that, Michael Gardiner was not in St.Kilda's best fifteen players, so to suggest that he dominated Fraser is quite a stretch indeed.

At best Josh Fraser was a victim of complete and utter stupidity at the selection table

again you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser, particularly when your team has 22 winners

What happened? Did you sit on a pr1ck?

merely debunked one that wouldn't know

There seems to be a pattern in these last two posts of yours. For some reason you seem to have either failed to read my posts thoroughly, or made things up to suit yourself. Please don't do that any more.

seems it's the done thing around here

 

[Hanis]

What a juckin foke!!

On on on on on on KS goes on about Fraser being better than Gardiner and unashamedly uses statistics to prove his/her point but in the same breath rates Fraser higher than Gram yet Gram smashed Fraser statistically in 2009 - classic hypocrite!!!

She will use the excuse that Fraser plays a different position than Gram yet she still rates Fraser higher in terms of importance .... crikey if Fraser is more important to Collingwood than Gram is to St Kilda then Collingwood are in all sorts of trouble

The fact that Collingwood beat St Kilda in all statistics yet lost the match must seriously ring alarm bells

BTW KissCyclops you say Alastair Smith is mature aged and ready to play yet Lenny Hayes came out this week and said he still has a long way to go in terms of size and experience - seriously what the hell do you know compared to Lenny Hayes - i tell you what ... absolutely jackshite

You cite of all people Tim Watson as saying Collingwood looked better than St Kilda yet Tim Watson is a spectacularly failed coach and then you go and cite some hack journalist to back up another lame argument ... seriously are you that desperate???

As for my toenail clippings which you seem to have an unhealthly interest for - I have absolutely no doubt that if I started a poll as to what tasted better ...my infected toenail clippings or your ramblings I know what most sane people would chose to swallow ..... yes you lose again!!!

 

[Saints Premiers 2006]

Unfounded?

any one of "your" sources will tell you Total AFL disposals in 2005 was 117,756, in 2009 it was 138,359.



Yawn

It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that. There is nothing that I have seen you write in this post or your previous post that supports this.



I agree, stat wise he remained stationary while the AFL moved ahead

How did his supercoach average shape up? I know you how you like to use supercoach stats to suit a point



Very interesting



It seems to me that you're just making this up to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that.

I suggested Josh Fraser plays as though he doesn't like physical contact,



KS stats have no source

Here's mine

http://www.prowess.com.au/the-news/60-best-in-afl-statistics.html



and 223 less hit outs in 2 hours more of game time which is also true



which it is, Josh Fraser played 3 less games BTW and 120 more minutes



other than ruckwork



.It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that.



cough

It seems to me that you're just making this up (or selectively using stats) to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that. Either that, or you completely fail to understand the words that are written in my posts because you have failed to read them thoroughly before responding.



Definitely not, your ability to repeat the same point as nauseum and to show zero understanding of any rebuttal is an ability that shows no lack of consistency at all.



Fortunately he had made a complete recovery by round 9



you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser



Other than by watching it or through your beloved stats

Just for me, because I know you'll ignore them again

Fraser ruck contests 49 hit outs 17
Gardiner ruck contests 47 hit outs 31



At best Josh Fraser was a victim of complete and utter stupidity at the selection table

again you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser, particularly when your team has 22 winners



merely debunked one that wouldn't know



seems it's the done thing around here

Gardiner = reformed big man who is in the top 10 ruckmen in the league

Fraser = jack of all trades (barely) master of none, below average ruckman, does not get enough of the football around the ground and is not quick at all for a big man

Do not use stats Kissugly, they will not assist you.

Luke Ball was a great player once. He stats this year might have equalled his All-Australian year however the game has become faster with skilled players dominanting (fairly relevant observation). Luke Ball is not fast and his skills (as displayed on Friday night with a disposal efficiency of 45%) display this. Therefore the game itself has changed and Luke Ball has been seemingly left behind and morphed from a great player into an average player

Were you aware of his 45% efficiency? Pretty average, but then again it is expected from an average player

 

[KissStephanie]

Unfounded?

Not only do I not believe that you "debunked" anything, but did you miss the bit when I said it was irrelevant to anything that I had said? Luke Ball maintained his averages since he was All-Australian despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon, and this does not alter that. It seems to me that you're attempting to suggest that Luke Ball's averages should have increased in that time, but that is ridiculous, and it is not what I had said.

It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that. There is nothing that I have seen you write in this post or your previous post that supports this.

What are you talking about? I didn't make anything up in that sentence, and nor did i inaccurately accuse you of anything. I simply said that to me it's (your theory) is like a 9/11 conspiracy theorist claiming they have debunked the real truth behind the attack on the WTC buildings and that al-Qaeda were not responsible after all. Did you not understand that?

I agree, stat wise he remained stationary while the AFL moved ahead

Are you just trying to be difficult? I said in this post that Luke Ball had maintained his averages since he was All-Australian despite receiving less game time under Ross Lyon. You then disagreed with that by claiming you had "debunked" it in this post of yours. Now you flip-flop and say that you actually agreed with what I wrote in the first place.

It seems to me that you're just making this up to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that.

No it's not made-up at all. Josh Fraser had significantly more contested possessions total, tackles total and 1%'s total than Michael Gardiner. See for yourself. He played one less match as well, and even if your game time information is correct, Fraser is still ahead in all of them per minutes played. Michael Gardiner took 13 contested marks in 17 matches though, while Josh Fraser took 10 contested marks in 16 matches.

I suggested Josh Fraser plays as though he doesn't like physical contact,

Well in that case then Michael Gardiner likes it even less quite obviously, otherwise his totals and his averages in those aspects of the game would be higher, but they are not.

KS stats have no source. Here's mine

Mine is in a book. I am attempting to find a link to it. If I cannot do that then I will scan the page and post the image of it later, while your link does not work as can be seen in this screen shot I took just before. By the way it's irrelevant anyway as I said in my previous post I hope you realise because Josh Fraser still averages more contested possessions, tackles and 1%'s than Michael Gardiner even if your figures of 93 minutes to 73 minutes, but one less match for Josh Fraser is correct...

and 223 less hit outs in 2 hours more of game time which is also true

That's not true. Michael Gardiner had 410 hit outs in 20 matches, while Josh Fraser had 267 hit outs in only 17 matches. That is 143 more hit outs in three extra matches, and a number of those matches, Fraser was unable to jump due to his well documented knee problem.

However, yes Gardiner did win more hit outs because Fraser had difficulty jumping often last season due to his knee injury and it had a terrible effect on his ability to win hit outs, even though his average of 16.9 hit outs per match was not terrible. A ruckman that can win hit outs more often was desperately needed though, so Collingwood recruited Darren Jolly.

Finally, why are you mentioning hit outs? That is going off track regarding anything that I had stated. In this post I simply stated that Josh Fraser had significantly more contested possessions, tackles, and 1%'s because you had questioned his courage which I have since shown to be unfounded.

which it is, Josh Fraser played 3 less games BTW and 120 more minutes

Not according to what is in front of me regarding the 22 home and away matches which Josh Fraser played 16, and Michael Gardiner played 17. Regardless, it is irrelevant anyway because Josh Fraser still had more contested possessions, tackles and 1%'s per minutes played which is all that I had stated.

other than ruckwork

Oh for goodness sake. You stated that Josh Fraser plays as if he is afraid of getting hurt. I them showed that it is unfounded due to his higher totals and averages regarding contested possessions, tackles and 1%'s. I never at any stage disputed that Gardiner won more hit outs last season which was mainly dues to Fraser's knee problem. Hopefully the clean-up surgery he has had and his modified pre-season programme well help that issue, although it is not as much of an issue any more now that he is no longer the first ruckman, although he is still a very important player.

Collingwood Ruckman Josh Fraser's Knee Surgery Put on Hold
1 October 2009

COLLINGWOOD ruckman Josh Fraser has narrowly avoided reconstructive surgery for a chronic problem in his right knee, highlighting the duress he played under this year.

Fraser successfully managed continuing issues with the posterior cruciate ligament for most of the season, but broke down in the Magpies' Round 15 win against the Bulldogs. Although he returned late in the season, Fraser could not play beyond the qualifying final against St Kilda.

Collingwood and Fraser were late last week preparing for the worst-case scenario - major surgery to reconstruct the posterior cruciate ligament. Such surgery puts players out of action for as much as four to six months. "The surgeon was looking at the possibility of a PCL reconstruction," Collingwood football manager Geoff Walsh said yesterday. "That would have meant a long time on the sidelines."

But the surgeon this week decided to take a more cautious approach to the injury, which also flared in the Hall of Fame game last year. "We'll go down the path of a really intensive quad strengthening program," Walsh said. Fraser may still require minor clean-up surgery, but the club is confident his pre-season will not be significantly interrupted. "I'd think he'd be able to get into the (pre-season) program fairly quickly," Walsh said. Walsh said Fraser had been managing the injury for a couple of years.

It seems to me that you're making things up. Please don't do that.

I didn't state or suggest that it was fact though. It was simply a query as my post clearly showed.

cough

Do you have swine flu? If so, then I hope you covered your mouth.

It seems to me that you're just making this up (or selectively using stats) to suit yourself, and I have very little tolerance for that.

I did not make that up at alll, and now it seems that you're lying about it.

You clearly have made references regardiing my consistency which are simply not true, and you have not shown a single example regarding that. If you feel that I am being inconsistent, selectively using stats, or making things up, then instead of making such inaccurate accusations, as you also did in your previous post, then show examples of it.

Either that, or you completely fail to understand the words that are written in my posts because you have failed to read them thoroughly before responding.

This makes no sense in reference to the sentence that you were responding to. You simply plagiarised my own words and pasted them to this post. Are you trying to patronise me? If so, then I have absolutely had enough.

Definitely not, your ability to repeat the same point as nauseum and to show zero understanding of any rebuttal is an ability that shows no lack of consistency at all.

Firstly, you flip-flop all over the place, yet you hypocritically criticise my consistency. Secondly, I do not repeat the same point ad nauseam. That said, it seems that you don't like reading my posts, and if that's the case, then why are you doing so, let alone responding?

Fortunately he had made a complete recovery by round 9

Of course he didn't. He has been battling with the injury since it occurred in the Victoria v. Dream Team match in 2008.

you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser

Only when he was clearly injured in both matches.

Other than by watching it or through your beloved stats

I've never stated that stats are beloved. It appears that you're patronising me yet again. Is that right? I have only ever stated that I do not purely use stats to form an opinion, but nor will I ignore them though.

Just for me, because I know you'll ignore them again

I didn't ignore them.

At best Josh Fraser was a victim of complete and utter stupidity at the selection table

I've never disputed that Collingwood should have selected another ruckman in the Qualifying Final, but it is not at all as stupid as St.Kilda's decision to play Sean Dempster in the forward line in the Grand Final and to give Luke Ball only 47% game time in that match.

again you don't need to be to beat Josh Fraser, particularly when your team has 22 winners

I see it differently. Josh Fraser was injured during both meetings between the two clubs last season, but Gardiner was incapable of taking even more advantage of that situation.

merely debunked one that wouldn't know

I don't know what you mean.

seems it's the done thing around here

In this post of yours most certainly as you have shown and I have pointed out.

 

[Alpha Male]

Well I certainly think that Collingwood will make the top-4 and finish ahead of St.Kilda still, and there is nothing that I saw from last weekends match that has made me feel differently regarding that. I think St.Kilda is going to find it difficult as the season progresses with nine short six day breals between matches, and throwing away pick #16 and failing to receive compensation for Luke Ball can still hurt them as early as this year.Collingwood were closer to full strength with Fraser, O'Bree and Anthony missing, but I still don't consider it a loss after beating St.Kilda in possessions, contested possessions, marks, tackles, hit outs, clearances, inside-50's, seven more scoring shots and total SuperCoach scores. St.Kilda however were able to kick an extra super-goal, and an extremely accurate four behinds which enabled them to win by one point. While Hayes, Dal Santo, Gram and Gardiner are important players, I don't believe that Clarke, Dempster and Baker are,Well you're obviously not thinking about it deeply enough because St.Kilda's extra super-goal wouldn't count next time they play each other, and I believe that Collingwood would still win in most of the same areas if both teams were at full strength. Therefore it would again come down to whether Collingwood could finish better in front of goals, and if St.Kilda can kick as straight again as they did. There is not a lot between the two teams going by the match, but Collingwood has definitely improved more since last years Qualifying Final than St.Kilda has.

And despite all of this we continue in the NAB Cup while you dont. I really wish I had your way of thinking.

I would be so much happier knowing we won the flag last season based on the 'Kiss Stephanie' system. Clearly the way the game is played is wrong. It's not about who has the bigger score, it's about who has the best looking stats Andy D's time is up! Vote 1 for the KS System!!!

 

[THE_GUN]

i had a really hard time sleeping last night.................... just found out im on kissstephanie's ignore list !!

looks like no kissing & making up

devastated.

 

[Falchoon]

Finally, why are you mentioning hit outs? That is going off track regarding anything that I had stated.

It's not all about you

nor your brick wall