Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Cockburn

[Moley27]

I'm firming in my view that this year is his last roll of the dice. I think he's been pretty average all year. Lacks intensity at times - review his game against Geelong, turns the ball over and appears to sh!t himself sometimes.

Hurn's form was pretty solid prior to getting injured. If he can pick up where he left off, I have no qualms in giving him another year - he's good enough at this level. Meaning Hurn, Shep, Nelson and now Witherden are all above him in the medium-sized defender department.

Time to trade him.

Like it or not, Tom Cole will be a 10-12 year Eagle (he has grown on me the last couple of years). Premiership player at a young age, become largely dependable at playing his role and will grow with time. Don't be surprised if at age 27-28 he has a Brad Sheppard style emergence as a really important player.

 

[The Passenger]

Like it or not, Tom Cole will be a 10-12 year Eagle (he has grown on me the last couple of years). Premiership player at a young age, become largely dependable at playing his role and will grow with time. Don't be surprised if at age 27-28 he has a Brad Sheppard style emergence as a really important player.

Even if he doesn't have a Sheppard style mid career emergence he is still going to comfortably pass the 150-game mark as long as he stays relatively free of injury. He's not quite at the stage where the coach can put his name on the board, forget about that position/role and know that it's going to be taken care of each weekend. As you say he is largely dependable, but still has a few moments here and there, and the odd poor game... He certainly suffered from a flag hangover for a while in '19 but has bounced back since.

I reckon he will become a set and forget player in the next couple of years and sustain that level for a while. Similar level to say Sam Butler previously. Not going to be putting their names in front of the AA selectors, but they don't take up much salary cap space and add little stress to already overloaded coaches. Those types can be pretty invaluable players when it comes to building a flag list. Sadly, they also very quickly become internet whipping boys, such is the lot of those who spend their careers lurking in the 15th to 20th region of their club's playing list.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

I thought both NN and Vardy gave us a physical presence around the contest.NN arriving at speed certainly puts the wind up the opposition.

 

[Bacchus]

Had a while to think about this.

I didn’t see any negatives in this game. Undoubtedly there were but they were too subtle for me. I thought it was a great win, a significant one in club history. I didn’t think we could win with such a depleted team especially the backline. Also I had bought the hype on Fremantle’s midfield. But really they hadn’t defeated anyone apart from possibly GWS.

+ the whole team stood up, first tier, second tier and third tier

+ the midfield especially, all four major players - Kelly, Sheed, Redden and Gaff, our midfield currently is shallow so we depend heavily on these four guys to play well, perhaps one reason for inconsistency, they can’t keep doing it at a high level every week

+ contribution of Jones, really showed something in this game, pace and zip, a break-out game?

+ Edwards - showed that he is up to the standard, should be good when he he gets stronger and more experienced

+ return to form and leadership of Sheppard; I thought the backline lacked leadership but Shep filled the void. I thought he was just a quiet achiever but he stepped up when needed, speaking to and directing younger players

+ Oscar Allen in the backline, love him as a permanent forward but he’s more than that, played his unaccustomed role in the backline to perfection and was a leader in the backline. What a steal at pick 21

+ Langdon’s game. I haven’t thought much of him to now but I can see why Simmo likes him. A blue collar worker who gets down and dirty. Puts his body on the line. Maybe he will start to flourish having got his first goal and second by accident.

+ Brander’s second half after a poor first half and cringe-worthy marking attempt. Came back strongly and showed why he was a high pick. Love him kicking goals, marking and tackling. Could become an important member of the team. A rich man’s Kam McIntosh.

+ Others - Rotham, Waterman’s return to form, Petrocelle (steady game but a weapon with his lightning pace)

Really, the whole team could be mentioned - Darling, Kennedy, Naitanui - but we expect them to play well every week

- Negatives = none, let’s hope we can back it up this weekend.

 

[Mighty Eagles]

Don't be surprised if at age 27-28 he has a Brad Sheppard style emergence as a really important player.

Believe me, I will be

 

[kranky al]

Believe me, I will be

Hes had a better start to his career than shep….

 

[Mighty Eagles]

Hes had a better start to his career than shep….

Couldn't disagree more.

Shep was very good in his first year in 2010. Then his form waned a little bit in his second year when we were flying so he got dropped. He then struggled for a few years but I'd certainly say Shep started much better than Cole.

 

[kranky al]

Couldn't disagree more.

Shep was very good in his first year in 2010. Then his form waned a little bit in his second year when we were flying so he got dropped. He then struggled for a few years but I'd certainly say Shep started much better than Cole.

Cole came in and played ….and then played in a gf

 

[Bacchus]

Couldn't disagree more.

Shep was very good in his first year in 2010. Then his form waned a little bit in his second year when we were flying so he got dropped. He then struggled for a few years but I'd certainly say Shep started much better than Cole.

I don't think Sheppard was anywhere near as bad initially as the popular narrative has him. They were struggling to find him a position for his first few years, Simpson settled him at half back. There was a high expectation on him as a pick 7, but I think he always showed ability, perhaps just not that expected of a pick 7.

Cole came in with a defined role and has stayed there. I think he is a good player. He had a flat patch around the 2018 GF and after, but I think he's come out of that now. He offers something different to the other back line players.

 

[Chris_6678]

I don't think Sheppard was anywhere near as bad initially as the popular narrative has him. They were struggling to find him a position for his first few years, Simpson settled him at half back. There was a high expectation on him as a pick 7, but I think he always showed ability, perhaps just not that expected of a pick 7.

Cole came in with a defined role and has stayed there. I think he is a good player. He had a flat patch around the 2018 GF and after, but I think he's come out of that now. He offers something different to the other back line players.

Yeah 2010 he was pretty good for a first year player in the backline.

2011-2012 he seemed to play HHF with Ash Smith + a fit Water the preferred HBF's though that period.

Cole has been pretty frustrating this year compared to last year where i thought he improved quite a bit and used his pace a fair bit more.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Yeah 2010 he was pretty good for a first year player in the backline.

2011-2012 he seemed to play HHF with Ash Smith + a fit Water the preferred HBF's though that period.

Cole has been pretty frustrating this year compared to last year where i thought he improved quite a bit and used his pace a fair bit more.

Imagine preferring Ash Smith to Shep anyone.

 

[Wedgetailed Westerner]

Ryan Buckland: Let ‘Chef Kelly’ cook! Tim Kelly thrives off greater licence to run the arcs and hunt
Ryan BucklandThe West Australian
Fri, 7 May 2021 7:24AMComments

Tim Kelly torched Freo last weekend. Credit: Paul Kane/Getty Images

Tim Kelly’s performance last Sunday was precisely what West Coast thought they were buying when they sold two drafts worth of capital for him in the 2019 off season.
His monster stat line — 42 disposals, 22 contested possessions and 13 clearances, otherwise known as an Ablett in online circles — understates Kelly’s influence on the game. No ground ball was safe, no play between the arc was without his influence.
Kelly did a lot of his work in the second half, helping the Eagles overpower a tired Fremantle and recapture just under half of the percentage lost at the hands of Geelong the week before. When a significant performance was required, and he was called to provide it, Kelly delivered.

It was a throwback to his two seasons at Geelong, where Kelly averaged 24.6 disposals, 11.1 contested possessions and 5.1 clearances per game running the arcs at Kardinia Park. Rather than relying, or expecting, him to be a powerful inside midfielder shouldering the burden of roving stoppages and burrowing into packs, Adam Simpson let Kelly hunt the ball and provide a robust link between defensive 50 and forward 50.
Through Kelly’s first 25 games as an Eagle you would be hard pressed to find a West Coast fan who would fully endorse the club’s decision to sign him. But Kelly’s statistical resume has been on par, or in some important areas exceeded, his 2019 All-Australian campaign for Geelong.
Total disposals? 27.7 per game this year, versus 25.4 in 2019. Inside 50s? Five even versus 4.4 in 2019. Clearances? Six even against 5.9 in 2019. Contested possessions? 12.6 per game versus 11.7 in 2019.

In short, and to borrow a Steph Curry-inspired meme from the NBA, is it time to just let chef Kelly cook?

If we dig another layer, there’s a story to tell. This week’s chart plots the 132 AFL players who have averaged at least 20 disposals per game and played at least 20 games since Tim Kelly’s debut in 2018. The two metrics are ground ball gets per game, versus marks per game – ball-winning on the deck versus possession in the air.
A clear pattern emerges: players tend towards being high ground ball get and low mark, or high mark and low ground ball get. In the business we would call it a negative correlation.
The yellow plot is Kelly throughout his career, while the blue are his fellow West Coast Eagles (and the grey the rest of the sample). Kelly is the farthest bottom right of all Eagles who reach the qualifying thresholds, and significantly more so than all but one of his teammates.

Tim Kelly’s profile is much closer to the likes of Rory Sloane, Ollie Wines and David Mundy. At the other end of the scale are Lachie Hunter, Mitch Duncan and Lachie Whitfield. You get the picture: Kelly does his best work when the ball hits the ground and he has space to move rather than being on the receiving end of a transition play.
The extent to which Kelly sticks out in the West Coast line-up is a product of game style. The Eagles play a possession game, which means more kicks and marks and fewer balls hitting the deck. Kelly, with his penchant for mopping up loose balls, may not be able to be at his best within the constraints of the Eagles’ ball movement system.
The western derby was fast paced, frenetic and far less controlled than would have been ideal for West Coast coach Adam Simpson. Yet Kelly thrived and put in his best display as an Eagle.
Should he be given greater licence to run the arcs and hunt the ball, to use his power running to the team’s advantage? The numbers suggest so, and so do Kelly’s own comments.
At a Monday press conference, Kelly provided some interesting insights into how the Eagles got on top in the second half. “We started getting on top around the ball, and it wasn’t necessarily perfect football.”
In short, and to borrow a Steph Curry-inspired meme from the NBA, is it time to just let chef Kelly cook?
Not at the expense of everything the Eagles do well of course. But given his strengths, and how they are in such stark contrast to most of the rest of the team, providing Kelly more latitude to play a direct, attacking midfielder role could be the subtle shift West Coast needs to stay in touch with the top four in this mini-run to the half-way point of the season.
What’s more, it could avoid an awkward squeeze once Luke Shuey and Elliot Yeo rejoin the team. It is clear from the AFL’s Player Ratings Points system — which is very good at rating midfielders — that Kelly has done his best work at West Coast when one or both of Shuey and Yeo are out of the line up.
When Kelly is the lone participant of that trio, he has averaged 13.1 AFL Player Ratings points per game — a mark which would put him inside the top 20 midfielders in the competition. When one or both of Shuey and Yeo are in the side, Kelly’s average is 10.6 points per game — a good figure but it would put him outside the top 100.
Coincidentally, or not, the two dots on the chart which are closest to Tim Kelly are Luke Shuey and Elliot Yeo. A dilemma the Eagles will be looking forward to solving.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Ryan Buckland: Let ‘Chef Kelly’ cook! Tim Kelly thrives off greater licence to run the arcs and hunt
Ryan BucklandThe West Australian
Fri, 7 May 2021 7:24AMComments

Tim Kelly torched Freo last weekend. Credit: Paul Kane/Getty Images

Tim Kelly’s performance last Sunday was precisely what West Coast thought they were buying when they sold two drafts worth of capital for him in the 2019 off season.
His monster stat line — 42 disposals, 22 contested possessions and 13 clearances, otherwise known as an Ablett in online circles — understates Kelly’s influence on the game. No ground ball was safe, no play between the arc was without his influence.
Kelly did a lot of his work in the second half, helping the Eagles overpower a tired Fremantle and recapture just under half of the percentage lost at the hands of Geelong the week before. When a significant performance was required, and he was called to provide it, Kelly delivered.

It was a throwback to his two seasons at Geelong, where Kelly averaged 24.6 disposals, 11.1 contested possessions and 5.1 clearances per game running the arcs at Kardinia Park. Rather than relying, or expecting, him to be a powerful inside midfielder shouldering the burden of roving stoppages and burrowing into packs, Adam Simpson let Kelly hunt the ball and provide a robust link between defensive 50 and forward 50.
Through Kelly’s first 25 games as an Eagle you would be hard pressed to find a West Coast fan who would fully endorse the club’s decision to sign him. But Kelly’s statistical resume has been on par, or in some important areas exceeded, his 2019 All-Australian campaign for Geelong.
Total disposals? 27.7 per game this year, versus 25.4 in 2019. Inside 50s? Five even versus 4.4 in 2019. Clearances? Six even against 5.9 in 2019. Contested possessions? 12.6 per game versus 11.7 in 2019.

If we dig another layer, there’s a story to tell. This week’s chart plots the 132 AFL players who have averaged at least 20 disposals per game and played at least 20 games since Tim Kelly’s debut in 2018. The two metrics are ground ball gets per game, versus marks per game – ball-winning on the deck versus possession in the air.
A clear pattern emerges: players tend towards being high ground ball get and low mark, or high mark and low ground ball get. In the business we would call it a negative correlation.
The yellow plot is Kelly throughout his career, while the blue are his fellow West Coast Eagles (and the grey the rest of the sample). Kelly is the farthest bottom right of all Eagles who reach the qualifying thresholds, and significantly more so than all but one of his teammates.

Tim Kelly’s profile is much closer to the likes of Rory Sloane, Ollie Wines and David Mundy. At the other end of the scale are Lachie Hunter, Mitch Duncan and Lachie Whitfield. You get the picture: Kelly does his best work when the ball hits the ground and he has space to move rather than being on the receiving end of a transition play.
The extent to which Kelly sticks out in the West Coast line-up is a product of game style. The Eagles play a possession game, which means more kicks and marks and fewer balls hitting the deck. Kelly, with his penchant for mopping up loose balls, may not be able to be at his best within the constraints of the Eagles’ ball movement system.
The western derby was fast paced, frenetic and far less controlled than would have been ideal for West Coast coach Adam Simpson. Yet Kelly thrived and put in his best display as an Eagle.
Should he be given greater licence to run the arcs and hunt the ball, to use his power running to the team’s advantage? The numbers suggest so, and so do Kelly’s own comments.
At a Monday press conference, Kelly provided some interesting insights into how the Eagles got on top in the second half. “We started getting on top around the ball, and it wasn’t necessarily perfect football.”
In short, and to borrow a Steph Curry-inspired meme from the NBA, is it time to just let chef Kelly cook?
Not at the expense of everything the Eagles do well of course. But given his strengths, and how they are in such stark contrast to most of the rest of the team, providing Kelly more latitude to play a direct, attacking midfielder role could be the subtle shift West Coast needs to stay in touch with the top four in this mini-run to the half-way point of the season.
What’s more, it could avoid an awkward squeeze once Luke Shuey and Elliot Yeo rejoin the team. It is clear from the AFL’s Player Ratings Points system — which is very good at rating midfielders — that Kelly has done his best work at West Coast when one or both of Shuey and Yeo are out of the line up.
When Kelly is the lone participant of that trio, he has averaged 13.1 AFL Player Ratings points per game — a mark which would put him inside the top 20 midfielders in the competition. When one or both of Shuey and Yeo are in the side, Kelly’s average is 10.6 points per game — a good figure but it would put him outside the top 100.
Coincidentally, or not, the two dots on the chart which are closest to Tim Kelly are Luke Shuey and Elliot Yeo. A dilemma the Eagles will be looking forward to solving.

The article probably proves the point that we need to allow Shuey to rest more forward now and only use him in the middle when required a few times per game.

 

[Mighty Eagles]

I don't think Sheppard was anywhere near as bad initially as the popular narrative has him. They were struggling to find him a position for his first few years, Simpson settled him at half back. There was a high expectation on him as a pick 7, but I think he always showed ability, perhaps just not that expected of a pick 7.

If there is a negative narrative about him of his early days then its wrong.

He was brilliant when he came in mid-season. He played back pocket/half-back flank, just like he did prior to being drafted from memory, and was impressive.

He then had less of an impact in R2 2011 and there was some talk about his form and he lost his place, as the team really performed. Then, when he returned a few times over the next three seasons, his confidence was low.

He really turned that around when Simmo was coach in 2014.

 

[THE A5]

The article probably proves the point that we need to allow Shuey to rest more forward now and only use him in the middle when required a few times per game.

Use him in the Centre bounces and push him forward. Something tells me Shueys one of those guys that would hate to be not in the thick of the action tho