Discussion Round 1, Best 22

[stkildathunda]

Shenton is barely VFL senior level let alone AFL.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Shenton is barely VFL senior level let alone AFL.

Is there a difference in standard between VFL and SAFL or are we asking him to do a different role than he did at Norwood?
But yeah , the only reason I listed him as able to play is because ( as my dad would say to me ) he's big enough and ugly enough.

 

[stkildathunda]

Is there a difference in standard between VFL and SAFL or are we asking him to do a different role than he did at Norwood?
But yeah , the only reason I listed him as able to play is because ( as my dad would say to me ) he's big enough and ugly enough.

Yea massive step up to VFL. He initially played same role as at Norwood but failed miserably and then they moved him down back and that's where he's started to show some good signs.

 

[Defacto]

Yea massive step up to VFL. He initially played same role as at Norwood but failed miserably and then they moved him down back and that's where he's started to show some good signs.

make or break year for him, with how old he is

club bio kind of hints to that

 

[SaintsSeptember]

make or break year for him, with how old he is

club bio kind of hints to that

I'd be putting money on "break" but you never know.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I guess the club see something in him, or we wouldn't have given him another year and could have had a pick in the rookie draft. Very fair to say that he will need to show a lot more than he showed for the bulk of last year though.

 

[Highlander35]

Edit: Was in la-la land for this post. Sorry fellas.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't think so. I think although he's on the rookie list, as a NSWSP, he doesn't technically take up one of the 4-6 places on the rookie list.

I think you're talking about Ferguson there, not Shenton.

 

[Highlander35]

I think you're talking about Ferguson there, not Shenton.

Whoops, skipped reading a couple of posts. Sorry mate

 

[getgaff]

Afternoon all. Sorry to invade guys and girls but I come in peace and to post a best 22. Always bang up for a best 22 discussion. Whatever team it is. Here's my go at St Kilda's for 2013 (best 24)

Got Kosi / Tom Lee fighting for a spot at FF. Kosi's got the runs on the board but Lee is ready for his second crack at AFL. Starred in the WAFL last year
Stanley / Hickey fighting it out for the second ruck role. Hickey probably the more likely ruck option but the beauty of Stanley is he is a handy third tall forward

Good luck for the season guys and girls

BACKS: Geary - Simpkin - Gwilt

HALF BACKS: Dempster - Fisher - Gilbert

Geary plays the role of number one main small forward stopper. Dempster's always shown the ability to stop talls and smalls but he became more recognised in AFL circles last year winning his first AA. Still an under rated player outside the AFL but his efforts are valued at the Saints. I've named Simpkin at FB but could easily play as a third tall back man. Can play on talls but also has the agility to play on mid sized forward targets. Simpkin at FB allows Gwilt to play a bit more attacking and use his big kick more. Gwilt will still get jobs on power forwards but with Fisher, Simpkin and Dempster to chop him out he could be a valuable attacking weapon. Fisher i rate highly as a CHB. His 2012 was more played as a stopping defender so he had to sacrifice his 2011 style of footy that won him a B & F. Think he still needs to play as that tall defender who stops his opponent rather than a attacking defender. Gilbert to be the main defensive rebound option. Versatile option where he can play on taller or smaller forwards. Still got a big left foot but never had a great right foot.

WINGS: Montage - Armitage

CENTRE: Hayes

Montagna is still a valued part of the starting 6 midfield at the Saints. Finished top 5 in disposals, marks, clearances and tackles. Still plays inside or outside with effect with his leg speed and ability to make space a key to outside play. With Goddard departing Armitage needs to become part of that midfield six more often with his hard body and hard at the ball attitude. Finished in the top 5 for clearances and tackles so his work inside the packs is needed. Hayes, the midfield warrior. A lot of admiration for this guy. At 32 to come back from a knee reco and than win a B & F is a massive achievement. Even after missing most of 2011 he didn't miss a beat last year and still the life blood of the Saints midfield

HALF FORWARDS: Steven - Riewoldt - Schneider

FORWARDS: Milne - Koschitzke - Saad

Forward line could maybe do with one extra tall which is where Siposs or Stanley would get involved and probably anyone but Milne and the other two talls in the mix for a demotion to the bench. Steven loves a contest and would no doubt be part of my second string midfield but can be a goal kicking midfielder as well. Schneider didn't play much in 2012 but when fit still offers a lot to the Saints forward line and midfield rotation with his damaging left foot. Uncanny goal sense inside 50. Milne is someone as an opposition fan that you love to hate because he just gets under your skin but for the Saints he has been a loyal servant and averaged over 2 goals a game for his career of 250 + games. Good stats for a small forward. Will continue to be the go to small forward at Saint Kilda in 2013. The list inclusions of guys like Saad, Milera and Dennis Lane to name a few means they are anticipating life after Milne but. Saad was a good pick up and handy inside 50 for the Saints in 2012. Heavily srutinised for his run up towards goal but it was effective. Still inexperienced but compliments Milne well.

Riewoldt although aging and his body being more vulnerable is still a massive part of the Saints forward structure. Was close to AA again last year and needs to pump out another big season for the Saints to be finals contenders. Still a dangerous KPF and rated highly amongst the best in the game at the moment. With the list inclusions of Lee and Hickey, Koschitzke still faces stiff competition for his position. Needed to be used more in the ruck in 2012 but hopefully with Hickey or Stanley playing more can play solely as a forward. Always competes and gets the ball to ground for his crumbers. Including Lee, Maister and White in the last couple of years means the club is looking for Kosi's long term replacement

FOLLOWERS: McEvoy - Dal Santo - Jones

McEvoy has really made that number one ruck role his own and is one of the most exciting young ruckmen in the comp in my opinion. With the addition of Hickey he will get valuable ruck back up in 2013. Ready to become a more dominate force in the ruck and get noticed nationally. Dal Santo adds the class and skill to the Saints midfield. Skillful by foot and can kick long as well. Still a vital part of the midfield group and a high ball winner. Even though he was dropped late Jones is still a valued member of the Saints i think. Was tried more as a traditional on baller but wasnt as effective as when used as a run with midfielder. Let him be a tagger again Scotty Watters. Thats where he plays his best footy.

INTERCHANGE: Siposs - Stanley/Hickey - Milera - Ledger

Siposs has filled out and is now a good size to play as a mid tall forward. A long and straight kick on goal who marks well he will become handy in relieving the small forwards. Was tried off half back late in 2012 where his long kicking was valued. In Satnley / Hickey they have the necessary relief ruckman for McEvoy. Hickey the more genuine ruckman but Stanley showed in linited appearance last year that he is a handy back up ruck and tall forward option. Just needs to keep fit. Milera like Saad came to the Saints in 2012 after being on traded by the Giants. Struggled to get a consistent game at AFL level and was considered behind Milne and Saad as small forwards. Has bulked up more and built his endurance to a level where he could become part of the midfield rotations. Ledger has been on the list for a few years now but never been able to cement himself. With all the starting midfield bar Armitage 29 years or older he needs to cement himself more in 2013 and with Goddard gone he has a chance to cement a midfield role. Pacy around the ground and has good skills by foot. Needs a big year i think and big responsibility when experienced guys like Ray are waiting for his spot in the team


MISSING OUT (senior list only, no particular oder)

BACKS
Blake (KPD): Tough on Blake to miss out and being such a versatile player made it tougher. Was in the mix for the bench with Ledger but went for the younger player ready to cement a spot. Not far off the mark if any tall defender is missing
Roberton (KPD): Like Blake has the versatility to play on taller or smaller opponents but just couldn't find a consistent spot in Fremantle's best 22. Is a good candidate for a rebounding defensive role and played the position with success at Fremantle. Reads the play well and is a long kick but never been able to fill out properly yet
Saunders (MID): Drafted in 2012 and tested well at the combine. Smaller defender who will probably develop more in the VFL this year
Webster (MID): Another defender who will probably develop at Sandrigham. His kicking skills are rated highly and provides hard running off half back. Needs to physically develop yet
Wright (DEF / MID): New draftee but wouldn't look out of place replacing Geary if his unavailable. Someone who i watched closely before the draft thinking I'd love him to make his way to West Coast but wasnt to be. Attacks the ball well and plays with courage. Excelled in the clinches at TAC Cup level as an inside midfielder. Loves the physicality of playing in close and tackles strongly. Interesting to see how he goes amongst men in VFL first but i'm not ruling him out of a debut in 2013

MIDS
Dunnell: He managed a few senior games but but still finished in the top 5 for the VFL B & F and off the rookie list so there is something in Dunnell that St Kilda will like. Added bulk to his lighter frame which will assist in putting pressure to break into a strong midfield.
Newnes: Another young midfielder who will find it tough to break into a pretty set Saints midfield. Got a chance early in 2012 and will look to add to his games tally shortly
Ray: Probably the most unlucky due to his experience but fell out of favour in 2012. Still has a lot to give but could be a make or break season. Next in line for any midfield role you'd think and will put pressure on Ledger to perform
Ross: Long term option as the next Lenny Hayes type midfielder with his size and inside ball winning capacity. A good size for a player only entering his second year but will struggle breaking into a set midfield. Chances for games against lowly ranked teams when midfield stars may be rested

FORWARDS
Dennis - Lane: Fell off the radar for small forwards Sydney and gets a new start at St. Kilda. Not an easy small forward line to break into but in Dennis - Lane they have more support for Milne
Markworth: Exciting forward line talent but wont see him in 2013 after needing a knee reco. Not sure if he went with the LARS procedure or not but even if he did i dont expect we will see him in the Saints team before 2014.
Murdoch: New draftee in 2013 so i dont imagine he'll break into the forward line. Hard worker and strong overhead so a good lead up half forward prospect in the future.

RUCKS
Hickey - All depends on how they want to handle McEvoy's ruck load. If they go with Stanley than Hickey is next in line ahead of project rucks Lever and Pierce.
Lever - Like Lewis Pierce is a long term ruck project who added some kg's to his light body last year and developed in the VFL. Will need to get some games in the VFL senior team before even being considered at AFL
Pierce - Project ruckman or KPF with good endurance and a strong contested mark which makes him a KPF prospect. Covers the ground well for a developing tall and impressed in juniors with his tap work. Might even get a look in before Lever at the moment

KPF
Lee: Averaged close to 3 goals a game in a premiership WAFL team last year before being hunted by GWS and ending up at the Saints. Previously on Adelaide's list but has filled out since than and now a more imposing figure. Will challenge for a senior spot if other talls aren't fit or out of form
White: Tall forward with plenty of upside in him. Strong overhead and showed speed off the mark in the TAC. Won the vertical jump test at the combine with a 100cm leap. Safe kick on goal but will need time to develop hsi body. Should be hitting his straps around the time Riewoldt and Koschitzke retire (both 31 in 2013)
Maister (nee Wilkes, KPD): Swingman who impressed with his work in the forward 50 in 2012 complementing Riewoldt and Kosi as the third tall forward. Will no doubt be in contention if any tall at either end of the ground was to be missing. Good to see him getting a new start after a interrupted career at West Coast

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Afternoon all. Sorry to invade guys and girls but I come in peace and to post a best 22. Always bang up for a best 22 discussion. Whatever team it is. Here's my go at St Kilda's for 2013 (best 24)

Thanks for dropping by: nice job! Only thing I will say is Maister will be pretty much assured to be starting ahead of Kozi and Lee. It might be hard to believe as an Eagles fan as he was pretty underwhelming when playing for your blokes, but he impressed many fans as a forward after having a limited pre-season and opportunities last year as Kozi was favoured (unfairly in the opinion of many of us) over him. Many of us have had the feeling that, given a full pre-season, Beau will play an important part in our forward line this year given he gives a lot with his contesting work up forward and is pretty decent when the ball hits the ground. He showed today playing basically on his own against a good Sydney defence what he is capable of. Don't be surprised if he has a big year as there is a lot to like about him as a forward.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Should I mention that Jack Steven is in the starting 22, or is it too upsetting after all that work.

 

[Waspy79]

Ray is having a nice pre-season, is there really no room for him in the Saints best 22?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Ray is having a nice pre-season, is there really no room for him in the Saints best 22?

Will be Best 22 this year IMO.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Afternoon all. Sorry to invade guys and girls but I come in peace and to post a best 22. Always bang up for a best 22 discussion. Whatever team it is. Here's my go at St Kilda's for 2013 (best 24)

Well done. Impressive analysis. Sure there will be a number of comments, but great to see you here.

For my 20 cents worth, Kosi and Lee will be fighting it out for the Full Forward position at Sandringham.

 

[mysainters]

Listening to the presser, not convinced Watters wants Siposs in the backline?

 

[Defacto]

Listening to the presser, not convinced Watters wants Siposs in the backline?

that was interesting wasnt it. maybe he's just creating a bit of uncertainty around where he will play or he's challenging sippa to see what other positions he can adapt to, to add more strings to his bow

he's really grown into the game. build his tank and he will be very special

 

[The Enemy Within]

Coaches and coaches assistants generaly see things differently than the average supporter,they see players do what they are asking them to do we may not agree with who gets picked but we always come into align when the time comes.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Listening to the presser, not convinced Watters wants Siposs in the backline?

Can't get the presser to work! The AFL keeps telling me the page doesn't exist... when I click THEIR link to it!

 

[mysainters]

Can't get the presser to work! The AFL keeps telling me the page doesn't exist... when I click THEIR link to it!

http://www.saints.com.au/media-centre/video-and-audio

Try this PS

 

[Persevering Saint]

Thanks SK! That was much better.

 

[Tongue In Cheek]

Really liked the look of Stanley on Reid, if he can recover and stay fit his height and speed should make him first choice as a defender. Watters - "looking to settle him in the back six" - from the presser. Which probably puts Simpkin on the interchange, and Ledger out of the side. Wright more likely as an emergency, and possibly Newnes too if Farren plays consistent good footy.

Watters' comments on Siposs struck me more as a query over his endurance playing behind the ball. I think he wants Siposs in the backline, the challenge is can he run out the game in that position.

TDL I would give a shot at starting HFF until (if) Schneider can reclaim it. Milera not starting 22 for mine based on what he's shown.

As much as I liked CJ's game yesterday I can't find a spot for him. Hickey is probably lucky to get a berth but I suspect he will improve quickly, and what's more I reckon we need to fast-track him.

 

[hayes]

I'm happy for Siposs to play anywhere except as the loose man. Not at this stage of his career anyway, get him used to playing on blokes or before you know it he turns into Bryce Squibbs.

 

[Rors]

I'm for giving Seb Ross a consistent game as a run-with player. For Round 1 v GC, i'd have him run with Swallow or Bennell, (maybe even rotate him onto GAJ for small bursts - would make invaluable learning). He has good hands in & under packs, looks to be working hard enough to warrant a senior game early in the year. His flaw, from what i saw last year & this year is that when he has a little space, he needs the '2nd grab' to pick up the ball... Strange really, he's very clean in a pack, but give him a metre or 2 in space & he has a tendency to fumble the pick-up. The more he's exposed to the speed of the AFL, this will diminish.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Afternoon all. Sorry to invade guys and girls but I come in peace and to post a best 22. Always bang up for a best 22 discussion. Whatever team it is. Here's my go at St Kilda's for 2013 (best 24)

Anyone that comes in peace and isn't trolling is most welcome here I would suggest. Very impressive write-up for someone who doesn't follow us!

As for Kosi v Maister, unless Justin was carrying some sort of injury in the 2nd half of last year, he would have to have improved out of sight (and be right back to the very best form he was in early last year) to get a game ahead of Beau (who has been our best up forward in the intra-club game, and so far in the NAB CUP) if we're being serious.

Even though Beau was not particularly fit and was carrying some excess baggage last year, he was going better than Kosi by the end of the year and Beau looks significantly better this year, having slimmed down, possibly gotten more ripped and gotten significantly fitter. Watching him up close at the ground yesterday I was just sitting there thinking to myself that he is now miles ahead of Kosi, based on Justin's last 10 or so games in the seniors (when he unfortunately looked as though the game had just about passed him by, especially against the better teams), as well as what I've seen from him so far this year in the intra-club game and R1 of the NAB Cup. It wouldn't even be a contest, as far as I'm concerned, unless Kosi has been tearing it up on the track that we're not aware of.

I think Kosi will be fighting for a spot with Hickey. If we go with both McEvoy and Hickey then I would suggest Justin misses out, but if we only go with McEvoy then Kosi would still be a chance if he is really fit and in form.

Our forward line would have to be extraordinarily strong right now for Maister to not be a part of our best 22, especially since he brings some brute strength that we really haven't had up there since Gehrig and Hamill retired. Watching him from ground level just push and push until the likes of Ted Richards were out of his way in marking contests yesterday was a treat to watch. If he wasn't in a position to mark he just pushed and pushed until he was, something that the likes of Kosi and Rooey don't generally have the strength to do if the kicks don't go to their advantage. Some of his defensive punches in the F50 were also excellent and helped keep the ball in the area, instead of Sydney just being able to mark it. I guess that instinct to punch comes from all his time spent down back previously.

With some of the strong marking he's shown in his games so far for us I look forward to seeing how he goes once he starts getting delivery from the likes of Dal Santo, Hayes and Schneider, who all sat out yesterday's game and when Riewoldt is the one getting most of the defensive focus. The two of them could be a real handful and if Kosi, Hickey, McEvoy, or Lee are also up there they could make us even stronger in the air, with any of Milne, Saad, Milera, Dennis-Lane and Schneider at their feet for any crumbs.