Autopsy Round 13, 2021: St.Kilda v Adelaide

[cartwright]

Last quarter of crows game we kicked out to the same spot every time. I would guess hoping for the boundary and a reset at least which is no good if you’re getting smashed in clearance,it reminded me of the Watson days

Think this comes back to fitness, or lack of

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe most coaches aren't good? That would imply that you need to keep churning them so that eventually you find a Clarko or Bevo or Simmo or Rossco.

Yeah the evidence of holding on to coaches like Richo has hardly proved fruitful.

 

[Joffaboy]

I prescribe 1000 self-uppercuts for this stupidity.

More irrelevance from the poster who has made it an art form.
Look in a mirror noddy.

 

[plugger66]

Maybe most coaches aren't good? That would imply that you need to keep churning them so that eventually you find a Clarko or Bevo or Simmo or Rossco.

Or maybe they are but clubs get rid of them before they have a chance. What do Thompson and Hardwick have in common? Both were just about sacked but in the end weren’t. If that was us they are certainly sacked and we never know how good they are. I tend to think most lists aren’t that good before most coaches.

 

[plugger66]

Yeah the evidence of holding on to coaches like Richo has hardly proved fruitful.

And getting rid of him in more and more eyes is hardly proved fruitful.

 

[plugger66]

Think this comes back to fitness, or lack of

If fitness is the issue why have we won as many last quarters as first quarters. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Noidenous]

More irrelevance from the poster who has made it an art form.
Look in a mirror noddy.

Start punching.

 

[plugger66]

More irrelevance from the poster who has made it an art form.
Look in a mirror noddy.

I don’t see the point of him or her.

 

[Saintbloke]

It’s coming quickly. More and more jumping on board. Anyway how has the new coach worked out after we needed a new coach last time. Obviously not good in more and more opinions but hey let’s do the same thing again. You know it’s a sign of madness. A new coach fixes everything.

Probably some logic in why big professional sporting clubs don't go down the park and grab a dad as their head coach and pay him $50 per game.

 

[plugger66]

Probably some logic in why big professional sporting clubs don't go down the park and grab a dad as their head coach and pay him $50 per game.

You have lost me. Did changing coaches work last time we did it?

 

[Joffaboy]

I don’t see the point of him or her.

There is none. He/she/it thinks they/them/they're the smartest non binary in the room when they actually come across as a failed auto didact who got his vast knowledge from Facebook.

Gets triggered when called out as irrelevant, which he indubitably is.

 

[gringo2011]

And getting rid of him in more and more eyes is hardly proved fruitful.

He never had a list capable of doing much but at some point the the players clock out if they don't get reward for effort. He's got the worst record of any coach ever that lasted over 100 games. He lasted 6 years with out finals and by the end he looked just as far away from them as he did at the start. Trout helped to kill his career but he bottomed out and didn't even leave us with a better list than he started with. That's enough evidence to suggest he wasn't doing us any good.

 

[Xxxx66]

Or maybe they are but clubs get rid of them before they have a chance. What do Thompson and Hardwick have in common? Both were just about sacked but in the end weren’t. If that was us they are certainly sacked and we never know how good they are. I tend to think most lists aren’t that good before most coaches.

Whilst Richmond kept Hardwick, the review process ignited a big change to the way he went about it.
All the stuff about opening up to the group, lots of talk about caring and playing for each other etc. I also hear The Dees using similar language. So perhaps we need a mini review, refresh some assistants and a mindset shift rather than just throw out the coach

 

[Noidenous]

There is none. He/she/it thinks they/them/they're the smartest non binary in the room when they actually come across as a failed auto didact who got his vast knowledge from Facebook.

Gets triggered when called out as irrelevant, which he indubitably is.

*Yawn*

 

[sunny3193]

It’s coming quickly. More and more jumping on board. Anyway how has the new coach worked out after we needed a new coach last time. Obviously not good in more and more opinions but hey let’s do the same thing again. You know it’s a sign of madness. A new coach fixes everything.

You’re an old person, but not that old.
You might remember this story because every time I read we must sack the coach I am reminded of it.
History.
Not fake, true.
In 1964, the Melbourne Football Club won the premiership.
It’s 12th (second only to Collingwood) and the 6th in 9 years.
Clearly the best team and best run club of that era.
The team was coached by the great Norm Smith.
In 1965, Melbourne was undefeated after eight rounds and third (equal first but with the lowest percentage) after twelve rounds.
Clearly this team was still very competitive.
Then on the Friday night before the next game, Norm Smith was sacked.
Melbourne would only manage one further win for the season.
And spend the next fifty odd years in a cycle of failure.

Circumstances change, but sacking the coach is not necessarily the panacea for problems at a football club.

Simply the most convenient.

 

[Mowman]

Whilst Richmond kept Hardwick, the review process ignited a big change to the way he went about it.
All the stuff about opening up to the group, lots of talk about caring and playing for each other etc. I also hear The Dees using similar language. So perhaps we need a mini review, refresh some assistants and a mindset shift rather than just throw out the coach

I would hope this will happen a refresh with new assistant coaches a review into fitness pre season program and hopefully 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 of the draft

 

[lewdogs]

You have lost me. Did changing coaches work last time we did it?

It actually did but now we want him sacked

 

[KingsRansom]

There is none. He/she/it thinks they/them/they're the smartest non binary in the room when they actually come across as a failed auto didact who got his vast knowledge from Facebook.

Gets triggered when called out as irrelevant, which he indubitably is.

Think it's like one of those "mates" that you allow to hang around you because you feel sorry for them, who says stupid shit at inappropriate times and generally start arguments over the siliest things and just all round wants to be noticed because no one really cares about their opinions

 

[One 2 Roo]

Sacking the coach is not the answer - but is such a St.kilda thing to do, it would not surprise me.

Players, board members, executives and recruiters all need to be held accountable for what is happening right now - not simply Ratts. Such an easy and piss weak cop out.

BTW - any one who thinks Mackay should not be suspended is ****ing kidding themselves. Granted he was going the ball as is his right, but he had time to modify his approach and lower his impact. HC was probably going to get takcled by the Crow chasing him, Mackay could still have impacted the contest without breaking his ****ing jaw - and that is the only relevant point here.

 

[Sainttony]

Does anyone know where our injury list is

 

[bergholt]

You’re an old person, but not that old.
You might remember this story because every time I read we must sack the coach I am reminded of it.
History.
Not fake, true.
In 1964, the Melbourne Football Club won the premiership.
It’s 12th (second only to Collingwood) and the 6th in 9 years.
Clearly the best team and best run club of that era.
The team was coached by the great Norm Smith.
In 1965, Melbourne was undefeated after eight rounds and third (equal first but with the lowest percentage) after twelve rounds.
Clearly this team was still very competitive.
Then on the Friday night before the next game, Norm Smith was sacked.
Melbourne would only manage one further win for the season.
And spend the next fifty odd years in a cycle of failure.

Circumstances change, but sacking the coach is not necessarily the panacea for problems at a football club.

Simply the most convenient.

What? That’s exactly the argument for sacking a coach. Clearly Norm Smith was the biggest part of their success, hence why they were bad after he left. They presumably had good players but with a worse coach they couldn’t win flags.

Same applies here. Maybe the Saints or Carlton or Collingwood have good enough players but the coaches are too shit to make them competitive. It’s hard to change the playing list quickly so you may as well change coaches just in case.

 

[Xxxx66]

West Coast accuracy rank

2021: 1st
2020: 1st
2019: 1st
2018: 3rd
2017: 3rd
2016: 1st
2015: 7th
2014: 2nd
2013: 10th
2012: 6th

St Kilda accuracy rank

2021: 17th
2020: 2nd
2019: 16th
2018: 17th
2017: 17th
2016: 4th
2015: 18th
2014: 16th
2013: 13th
2012: 4th

On this single issue, if we kicked reasonably straight this year, we are probably in the 8, Ratts is a superstar and Carlton are trying to pinch him back.

Last quarter of crows game we kicked out to the same spot every time. I would guess hoping for the boundary and a reset at least which is no good if you’re getting smashed in clearance,it reminded me of the Watson days

Seems to me ,we went the tried and true wet weather approach of gain territory, kick long, then either win or half a contest, then a reset.
Trouble is we lost the contests. Can't help thinking if you add the good one on one types like Marshall, gresh, Jones, membrey, Ross we even up the contests and the strategy works..

 

[CaptainRisky]

In my opinion it does . But anyway my point is it favored us last year for whatever reasons but it means nothing this year .
Similarly this year has caught our side by suprise combined with injuries as well .
Next year completely back to a normal season.
Let’s judge it on next season.

Ha ha , i bet if we had won the flag you wouldn't have the same opinion and how do you know next year will be back to normal , i hope your right though

 

[bergholt]

No crowds...no pressure

Nah, I think most of the reason last year is that we temporarily nailed a gameplan where we got heaps of out-the-back goals. They’ve dried up completely for us this year so our shots are heaps harder.

 

[Veer Right]

West Coast accuracy rank

2021: 1st
2020: 1st
2019: 1st
2018: 3rd
2017: 3rd
2016: 1st
2015: 7th
2014: 2nd
2013: 10th
2012: 6th

St Kilda accuracy rank

2021: 17th
2020: 2nd
2019: 16th
2018: 17th
2017: 17th
2016: 4th
2015: 18th
2014: 16th
2013: 13th
2012: 4th

West Coast do most things better then us. Draft better, manage players better, gets the playing group fitter, more muscle bound, kick better, better drilled and they win flags.

St Kilda Hickey vs West Coast Hickey and there it is plain as day, the West Coast version is superior. His ruck work improved, he competes competently, he's fitter and stronger. Just one example.

It is definitely not the players who are at fault for St Kildas accuracy issues.