Autopsy Round 13, 2021: St.Kilda v Adelaide

[jwikked]

if McKay just had a realistic attempt to win the football like Clark did by approaching the ball front on the you don't see this outcome.

Of course you do.

 

[PostmanBish]

Try down the back of the couch.

Club can’t afford enough paper to print it, with it being so long …

 

[stavro#4]

Is it the coach or the recruiters? You can only work with what you’ve got on the paddock & when that’s just goats instead of Brahman bulls, then your in trouble.

There is an issue with depth.

but if I take the equivalent of who we have had missing for each side in the league - they would all suffer.

now that doesn’t explain how mentally weak we appear in between passages of play let alone quarters and games. But it does give an out to the overall wins and losses.

what we need to do is understand what we can take from the rest of the year and plan forward.

- games into Connolly, Clavarino, Bytel, Allison possibly a game or two for the new kids.

- Battle,Billings,Dunstan,Lonie,Long,Dmac, Joyce,Hanners, Kent, Carlisle.
Who is staying and who is going?

- Who can we take from clubs ala Hine and revive their careers. Fiorini?Brodie? West? Naish? Constable? Narkle?

- change our style now and tweak it over summer?

 

[plugger66]

He never had a list capable of doing much but at some point the the players clock out if they don't get reward for effort. He's got the worst record of any coach ever that lasted over 100 games. He lasted 6 years with out finals and by the end he looked just as far away from them as he did at the start. Trout helped to kill his career but he bottomed out and didn't even leave us with a better list than he started with. That's enough evidence to suggest he wasn't doing us any good.

And again you aren’t getting my point. It’s not about richo. It’s about now the call of sacking ratts.

 

[plugger66]

Whilst Richmond kept Hardwick, the review process ignited a big change to the way he went about it.
All the stuff about opening up to the group, lots of talk about caring and playing for each other etc. I also hear The Dees using similar language. So perhaps we need a mini review, refresh some assistants and a mindset shift rather than just throw out the coach

Agreed. Said all that but people want the coach sacked without anything you said.

 

[stavro#4]

But unfortunately it won't stop this forum being clogged up with pages and pages and pages of nonsense posting.

If the Mods could come up with a "fix" that automatically deletes posts with key phrases like "Richo was crap", "Petracca v McCartin" or "Finnis is a SJW" this forum might become enjoyable again.

It’s a by product of the club mate. It is never as bad as it seems. So push through.

-23 in a qtr in contested ball. that is utterly pathetic. that's not bad. it's horrendous.

It’s a sign of fitness. We got to the contests and couldn’t win them or when we did had no spread.

 

[Circus]

His back foot is on the ground. His front foot is off the ground because every human in the world when running has one foot in the air. I think Joey explained it perfectly on fox footy tonight.

Where his feet are is not really as relevant as when he made the decision to make the contest. He made the decision when he was 10-15 metres away and decided to go as fast and hard as possible knowing he would not get to the ball first, because Clark was virtually already there and was merely "waiting" to see how the ball bounced to try to gain control of it. By the time McKay made impact he was going flat out and was always going to crunch a player who couldn't see him, or protect himself, and who was moving much slower. The basic laws of physics determines the outcome.

The critical issue isn't the moment of impact, its when one player decided that there would be an impact and what that player did to ensure the impact he made did not adversely injure an opponent who had no means to protect himself.

 

[plugger66]

It actually did but now we want him sacked

Exactly. Makes sense I suppose. We improve one year then go backwards then rinse and repeat. Sounds like the saints.

 

[plugger66]

Where his feet are is not really as relevant as when he made the decision to make the contest. He made the decision when he was 10-15 metres away and decided to go as fast and hard as possible knowing he would not get to the ball first, because Clark was virtually already there and was merely "waiting" to see how the ball bounced to try to gain control of it. By the time McKay made impact he was going flat out and was always going to crunch a player who couldn't see him, or protect himself, and who was moving much slower. The basic laws of physics determines the outcome.

The critical issue isn't the moment of impact, its when one player decided that there would be an impact and what that player did to ensure the impact he made did not adversely injure an opponent who had no means to protect himself.

Yep if you think it’s a bump then suspended it you think he was going for the ball then play on. I’m not sure we know that the player knew he wasn’t going to get to the ball first especially when they basically got there at the same time I think he was going for the ball at every moment. Let the tribunal hear it and decide. Apart from many saints supporters everything I have read is pretty evenly split on this. Maybe getting off slightly in front so whatever decision is made about 50% will be happy and 50% upset

 

[Xxxx66]

Miss Marshall terribly for that down the line presence

Probably our our most important.

 

[sunny3193]

What? That’s exactly the argument for sacking a coach. Clearly Norm Smith was the biggest part of their success, hence why they were bad after he left. They presumably had good players but with a worse coach they couldn’t win flags.

Same applies here. Maybe the Saints or Carlton or Collingwood have good enough players but the coaches are too sh*t to make them competitive. It’s hard to change the playing list quickly so you may as well change coaches just in case.

Sorry, I have no idea what you are saying.
Are you saying Melbourne was correct in sacking Smith or incorrect in sacking him?

 

[saintbill]

If fitness is the issue why have we won as many last quarters as first quarters. Makes no sense to me.

That is far too blunt a measure to gauge anything meaningful. If a team puts you away early, the last qrt is often a non event and irrelevant. The winning side has put the cue in the rack.

Not sure why you would think all AFL teams pretty much have the same fitness. Even a 2% difference applied over a full game is absolutely huge.

Watch our games versus Dees. It is hard to make the argument we work as hard.

 

[Joffaboy]

Sport is inherently dangerous. That's part of what makes it exciting. Nobody is saying what happened to Clark is ok, no one wants that to happen - but it does. It's a contact sport, contact will occur that leads to injuries.

Unless you want to turn it into tag footy, injuries will continue to occur from the actions of an opponent. Tackles are dangerous, smothers are dangerous.
It was a collision between two players going for the ball. Imagine the sport if one person has to give up the chase because there's a chance they will be second to the ball.

If they were both going for the ball that would have clashed heades in a front on bump, Mckay as is shown by the stills above, turned his body, tucked his arms, left the ground and bumped.

Staright facts are that a player bumped another player who had hands on the ball, in the face with a shoulder and that player has multiple jaw fractures, and is out of football for months.

But you defend that? Curious.

 

[plugger66]

Getting McKernan has not been OK. Not a tiny weeny bit OK. Savage played well when he played last year, especially instead of Long in the final. He should have been retained. Hunter is not up to AFL standard. Wood certainly is when he is switched on, whenever that is, whatever causes that mysterious conjunction of circumstances to occur, but how can a coach rely on that?

So who rucks in the first few games if we don’t those 2 players. We probably lose round one without them just because of the balance of the side. I didn’t rate savage at all so didn’t care that they delisted him. He only played 2 or 3 games last year and long was clearly ahead of him last year.

 

[stavro#4]

Exactly. Makes sense I suppose. We improve one year then go backwards then rinse and repeat. Sounds like the saints.

Ratten is the best coach we have had since Ross.
Ridiculous that we have fans wanting to move him on a season after winning a final.

He isn’t infallible and my first suggestion would be that he,Lethers and Rath ensure that the work they need done is met before we start down the path of empowering players to do what they need done to be a top 4 outfit.

All 3 have seen the work required to win a flag. That’s the standard that needs to be met going forward. It’s the only standard that has ever got stkilda close to a flag. It was the Jeans,Alves and Lyon staple.

 

[plugger66]

That is far too blunt a measure to gauge anything meaningful. If a team puts you away early, the last qrt is often a non event and irrelevant. The winning side has put the cue in the rack.

Not sure why you would think all AFL teams pretty much have the same fitness. Even a 2% difference applied over a full game is absolutely huge.

Watch our games versus Dees. It is hard to make the argument we work as hard.

Why would I think they have pretty much the same fitness. Was dal said it on the radio and he has been to top and bottom clubs. Also I plenty of experience with with a fair few afl players who would also know. As for working hard well that isn’t about fitness it’s an attitude thing.

 

[plugger66]

Ratten is the best coach we have had since Ross.
Ridiculous that we have fans wanting to move him on a season after winning a final.

He isn’t infallible and my first suggestion would be that he,Lethers and Rath ensure that the work they need done is met before we start down the path of empowering players to do what they need done to be a top 4 outfit.

All 3 have seen the work required to win a flag. That’s the standard that needs to be met going forward. It’s the only standard that has ever got stkilda close to a flag. It was the Jeans,Alves and Lyon staple.

No idea if he is a good or bad coach. I do know that imo one good and one bad year means at least have your third year It’s illogical to sack him after 2 years. He is no scott Watters

 

[plugger66]

If they were both going for the ball that would have clashed heades in a front on bump, Mckay as is shown by the stills above, turned his body, tucked his arms, left the ground and bumped.

Staright facts are that a player bumped another player who had hands on the ball, in the face with a shoulder and that player has multiple jaw fractures, and is out of football for months.

But you defend that? Curious.

I’d say at least 50% if not more of footballing people have said it was a footballing incident and those same people acknowledge the head must be protected but sometimes accidents happen. Anyway around 50% will be upset or happy after the tribunal. And if he gets off watch the posts saying it’s because it’s Stkilda. Yet if he goes that’s forgotten until the next time someone gets off it’s only st Kilda.

 

[StCicatriz]

It’s a by product of the club mate. It is never as bad as it seems. So push through.
It’s a sign of fitness. We got to the contests and couldn’t win them or when we did had no spread.

i did say fitness was an issue a long time back, didn't I?

 

[StCicatriz]

Ratten is the best coach we have had since Ross.
Ridiculous that we have fans wanting to move him on a season after winning a final.

He isn’t infallible and my first suggestion would be that he,Lethers and Rath ensure that the work they need done is met before we start down the path of empowering players to do what they need done to be a top 4 outfit.

All 3 have seen the work required to win a flag. That’s the standard that needs to be met going forward. It’s the only standard that has ever got stkilda close to a flag. It was the Jeans,Alves and Lyon staple.

i just can't get my head around posters making it very very personal because they didn't like posters wanting richo moved on after 5 seasons!!!!

but then we get to ratten 1.5 years in and suddenly its ok to want to move him on!

its just flat out bizarre!

 

[Xxxx66]

I am a bit old school , so first reaction to the Clark incident, was why he approached the contest unprotected.
But then, I realise that the AFL have basically told players that they shouldn't expect head high contact,- it's outlawed.
So I tend to agree with king that if you want to change the game you have to enforce the rules. Personally I prefer to keep the hits and the retribution, but it's a different world so if the league are serious, it's 5 to 8 for mine. No question he lined Clark up and made a statement. Ten years ago he probably gets 3 votes for it!
This thought process is probably why there is a 50/50 split in opinion.

 

[StCicatriz]

I am a bit old school , so first reaction to the Clark incident, was why he approached the contest unprotected.
But then, I realise that the AFL have basically told players that they shouldn't expect head high contact,- it's outlawed.
So I tend to agree with king that if you want to change the game you have to enforce the rules. Personally I prefer to keep the hits and the retribution, but it's a different world so if the league are serious, it's 5 to 8 for mine. No question he lined Clark up and made a statement. Ten years ago he probably gets 3 votes for it!
This thought process is probably why there is a 50/50 split in opinion.

you've absolutely nailed it!

i don't think McKay had any mallice to go out and break Clarks jaw but the problem is because of the poor action of trying to win the footy he ended up going with an outlawed action i.e. a bump that means under the rules he's done.

 

[KingsRansom]

Just on Coffield, I've got a firm belief that Ratts sent him to Smith to follow and learn what he does (and also to nullify him) having Coffields ability to roost a pin point 50m kick on attack would be an amazing thing to have in the arsenal. Learning to attack more from defence in the ilk of Brodie Smith is a good move I reckon

 

[Xxxx66]

you've absolutely nailed it!

i don't think McKay had any mallice to go out and break Clarks jaw but the problem is because of the poor action of trying to win the footy he ended up going with an outlawed action i.e. a bump that means under the rules he's done.

So Can you email Chrisso then?

 

[Xxxx66]

Just on Coffield, I've got a firm belief that Ratts sent him to Smith to follow and learn what he does (and also to nullify him) having Coffields ability to roost a pin point 50m kick on attack would be an amazing thing to have in the arsenal. Learning to attack more from defence in the ilk of Brodie Smith is a good move I reckon

I reckon you could well be right. I think he has sent Bytel out to follow quality mids as a learning exercise too.