VFL Round 2 - Collingwood vs Port Melbourne at Olympic Park Oval (Pies lost 47-63 #BoroughIrkedUs)

[jmac70]

Glad to be of service.

Thanks VP.
It was very pleasant reading your reports whilst sipping red wine in front of my roaring open fire.

 

[Dave06]

 

[September Action]

It’s been raised: does Taylor Adams make us better. We were concerningly clean without him. Perhaps time in the 2s post hammy to work on decision making and disposal? Could be 1 step back for 2 forward?? Bc no one questions his attitude, endeavour, tank or ball finding. If he can polish his game up, he can take it to elite level. If...

I’d like to see Wills back in soon. Met him once and was very impressed with his attitude.

Langdon reads the play well and has a lovely intercept mark. Persist++. Maxwell role, freeing up Howe who has more strings and experience??

Not sure where I stand on Moore. He’s obviously a big piece of our future (or is he?) We don’t seem well structured when he plays and I haven’t seen too much lately. Hopefully he/the coaches will find his place in the team because early signs were good.

Whilst it’s said we’re currently missing many “best 22”, I see only Elliot, probably Fasolo and also Wells - who is a short term proposition only. Taylor, Broomy, Moore, I’m currently happy with the cover.

 

[Scodog10]

If I were framing a market on why Wells has missed the start of the season this is how it would look:

$1.10 his skinfolds
$10 an actual injury
$100 an internal suspension due to his skinfolds.

I’ll refer to the article on the AFL site yesterday specifically the definition in his arms and the missing pouch that he carried through the pre-season. At a guess he’s lost 4-5kg since Christmas and has gone from A grade Ammo body typing to an AFL bodyshape. To my eye it’s clearly the best condition he’s been in during his time at the club and probably for the past five years.

My read on his return to senior footy is purely based on how they want to stagger selection for the 3 matches in 11 days. IMO, I’d hold him back until the Richmond game because I have concerns about how he’ll handle it based on age not conditioning. Were we in the middle of a normal three week block he would play next weekend!

 

[September Action]

If I were framing a market on why Wells has missed the start of the season this is how it would look:

$1.10 his skinfolds
$10 an actual injury
$100 an internal suspension due to his skinfolds.

I’ll refer to the article on the AFL site yesterday specifically the definition in his arms and the missing pouch that he carried through the pre-season. At a guess he’s lost 4-5kg since Christmas and has gone from A grade Ammo body typing to an AFL bodyshape. To my eye it’s clearly the best condition he’s been in during his time at the club and probably for the past five years.

My read on his return to senior footy is purely based on how they want to stagger selection for the 3 matches in 11 days. IMO, I’d hold him back until the Richmond game because I have concerns about how he’ll handle it based on age not conditioning. Were we in the middle of a normal three week block he would play next weekend!

Or, play either side of Richmond?

 

[Vicky Park]

Thanks VP.
It was very pleasant reading your reports whilst sipping red wine in front of my roaring open fire.

Thanks jmac. Looking back at my posts, it appears that I had a major dummy spit.

 

[JB1975]

I didn't see the game, and it seems that even those who went could hardly see the game...but I like McLarty's numbers. He apparently put in some very useful work for a big man on such a deplorable day.

Wills and Mayne put together 25 tackles, both of them obviously craving some body warmth amidst the chill.

I like that Daicos is keeping himself present.

 

[Scodog10]

Or, play either side of Richmond?

It has merit definitely, but there’s two reasons why it’s not the way I’d go.

1. I think given the shape he’s in it’s match fitness that he now needs and holding him back from ANZAC Day gives him an extra match over that period without the weird breaks.

2. Of the three matches Richmond is the most important one for what he adds to our midfield. With the heat Richmond bring at the contest having Wells distributing will be enormous.

One though that I would lock in barring injury (touching copious amounts of wood) is Sier for Brown post ANZAC day. Wills won’t be far off either.

Edit: they’re some mighty impressive numbers from McLarty. Team high marks, tackling strong, accumulation and finishing. If either of Reid or Cox goes down in the short term I’d be confident he can fill that role and I’m genuinely excited by the prospect of Moore returning in defense to release Howe.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

It has merit definitely, but there’s two reasons why it’s not the way I’d go.

1. I think given the shape he’s in it’s match fitness that he now needs and holding him back from ANZAC Day gives him an extra match over that period without the weird breaks.

2. Of the three matches Richmond is the most important one for what he adds to our midfield. With the heat Richmond bring at the contest having Wells distributing will be enormous.

One though that I would lock in barring injury (touching copious amounts of wood) is Sier for Brown post ANZAC day. Wills won’t be far off either.

Surely Wills would be ahead of Sier? He has been the better performer of the two the last few weeks.

 

[Scodog10]

Surely Wills would be ahead of Sier? He has been the better performer of the two the last few weeks.

Based on what measure? It can only be numbers.

What’s best for the senior team will always be front of mind for me and Wills is as slow as a wet week so bringing him in to replace Brown would be a horrible decision for team balance. Sier isn’t quick, but he covers the ground well enough for that to be a beak even.

The only like for like regular in the senior team was Adams and at a guess Wills missed due to a lack of match minutes. If he’s now ticked that box the option could then be out Crocker in Wills and we shuffle Steele forward this week then have Pendles run with Heppell.

The thing is I think your post was more related to your views on Sier than what you think is best for the balance of the senior team? I think Sier has a long way to go myself, but he’s definitely edging closer to earning a crack than you seem to be prepared to acknowledge.

 

[Rorzza]

McLarty did extremely well being a big man in those conditions, that's a big positive plus in my book.....

All the usual candidates excelling again:
Sier
Daicos
Mayne
Blair
Wills
Who played on the guy that won Borough the game, the forward that kicked 4 or 5 goals?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Based on what measure? It can only be numbers.

What’s best for the senior team will always be front of mind for me and Wills is as slow as a wet week so bringing him in to replace Brown would be a horrible decision for team balance. Sier isn’t quick, but he covers the ground well enough for that to be a beak even.

The only like for like regular in the senior team was Adams and at a guess Wills missed due to a lack of match minutes. If he’s now ticked that box the option could then be out Crocker in Wills and we shuffle Steele forward this week then have Pendles run with Heppell.

The thing is I think your post was more related to your views on Sier than what you think is best for the balance of the senior team? I think Sier has a long way to go myself, but he’s definitely edging closer to earning a crack than you seem to be prepared to acknowledge.

My views on Sier are changing but I am yet to see him play a breakout game at VFL that would warrant giving him an AFL game. Admittedly even when scrutinizing him, I seem to miss half his possessions, and cannot say the same for Wills who was the more prominent of the two against Carlton. Consequently I was seeking to find out how Sier went this week, but no one seems to be able to provide an informed answer.

Sure it would be nice to bring in a fresh and bigger body for Brown, who did look a little down against Adelaide, but perhaps Brown will do a Stephenson and surprise us with his resilience. As for Sier, although I have never been a supporter of his recruitment, I saw enough in him against Carlton to suggest that he will one day play AFL. I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to move Brown on. He may be slightly built but he is highly skilled and clever, providing opportunity with his slick and well timed handball.

 

[Bored_Pie]

It’s been raised: does Taylor Adams make us better. We were concerningly clean without him. Perhaps time in the 2s post hammy to work on decision making and disposal? Could be 1 step back for 2 forward?? Bc no one questions his attitude, endeavour, tank or ball finding. If he can polish his game up, he can take it to elite level. If...

I’d like to see Wills back in soon. Met him once and was very impressed with his attitude.

Langdon reads the play well and has a lovely intercept mark. Persist++. Maxwell role, freeing up Howe who has more strings and experience??

Not sure where I stand on Moore. He’s obviously a big piece of our future (or is he?) We don’t seem well structured when he plays and I haven’t seen too much lately. Hopefully he/the coaches will find his place in the team because early signs were good.

Whilst it’s said we’re currently missing many “best 22”, I see only Elliot, probably Fasolo and also Wells - who is a short term proposition only. Taylor, Broomy, Moore, I’m currently happy with the cover.

I'm in the same boat. De Goey for Adams in my opinion was an upgrade. De Goeys field kicking is genuine elite.

 

[MagpieBat]

Thanks, good to read that my contributions including goal commentary and brief player comments on a difficult day for observations are valued.

I still love you...

 

[DaVe86]

I'm in the same boat. De Goey for Adams in my opinion was an upgrade. De Goeys field kicking is genuine elite.

I don't really believe it was a direct swap De Goey for Adams. Adams is a pure inside midfielder whereas De Goey played permanent forward. I don't recall De Goey attending one centre clearance.

I think we saw Josh Thomas play more midfield minutes, while Treloar and Sidebottom didn't spend any time at full forward like in the recent 2 weeks. They played purely midfield. Callum Brown also attended a couple of centre stoppages. That's how we replaced Adams.

I think if it were a Grand Final tomorrow, Adams would come in over Callum Brown. Brown was terrific, but his disposal was questionable throughout the game...similar to Adams. So if Adams is fit, that would be my change because he is just a bigger body and has more influence in contests. Long term I really like the look of Brown though.

So I don't think the presence of De Goey at this stage impedes the ability to recall Taylor Adams. If De Goey moves into the midfield it might, but right now he is required as a forward. We have enough midfielders.

 

[domus]

It’s been raised: does Taylor Adams make us better. We were concerningly clean without him. Perhaps time in the 2s post hammy to work on decision making and disposal? Could be 1 step back for 2 forward?? Bc no one questions his attitude, endeavour, tank or ball finding. If he can polish his game up, he can take it to elite level. If...

I’d like to see Wills back in soon. Met him once and was very impressed with his attitude.

Langdon reads the play well and has a lovely intercept mark. Persist++. Maxwell role, freeing up Howe who has more strings and experience??

Not sure where I stand on Moore. He’s obviously a big piece of our future (or is he?) We don’t seem well structured when he plays and I haven’t seen too much lately. Hopefully he/the coaches will find his place in the team because early signs were good.

Whilst it’s said we’re currently missing many “best 22”, I see only Elliot, probably Fasolo and also Wells - who is a short term proposition only. Taylor, Broomy, Moore, I’m currently happy with the cover.

Moore, Elliott, Adams and Wells are absolute certainties in our best 22. For you to have doubts about Moore being a positive for our side's structure is mindblowing.

 

[Gone Critical]

My views on Sier are changing but I am yet to see him play a breakout game at VFL that would warrant giving him an AFL game. Admittedly even when scrutinizing him, I seem to miss half his possessions, and cannot say the same for Wills who was the more prominent of the two against Carlton. Consequently I was seeking to find out how Sier went this week, but no one seems to be able to provide an informed answer.

Sure it would be nice to bring in a fresh and bigger body for Brown, who did look a little down against Adelaide, but perhaps Brown will do a Stephenson and surprise us with his resilience. As for Sier, although I have never been a supporter of his recruitment, I saw enough in him against Carlton to suggest that he will one day play AFL. I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to move Brown on. He may be slightly built but he is highly skilled and clever, providing opportunity with his slick and well timed handball.

I like what Sier is doing and agree he is probably behind Wills for a game soon but has more potential going forward. No certainty either of them make the grade but at a minimum they are evolving towards being depth.

With Wells and Adams needing to slot back in though neither are close to being called up for mine. Assuming Adams is ready to go for ANZAC day he is an automatic recall and Brown probably makes way. That would be a significant upgrade as much as Browny is tracking well. Wells will depend on how his calf/ Achilles pulls up. I doubt putting him into ANZAc day makes sense as that would be too close to Richmond. Seems a VFL full match this week and then AFL v Richmond assuming the calf stays good. Hopefully he hasn't lost too much of the condition he gained in the earlier pre seasons so the 2 VFL games should be enough.

 

[4#Didak#4]

It’s been raised: does Taylor Adams make us better. We were concerningly clean without him. Perhaps time in the 2s post hammy to work on decision making and disposal? Could be 1 step back for 2 forward?? Bc no one questions his attitude, endeavour, tank or ball finding. If he can polish his game up, he can take it to elite level. If...

I’d like to see Wills back in soon. Met him once and was very impressed with his attitude.

Langdon reads the play well and has a lovely intercept mark. Persist++. Maxwell role, freeing up Howe who has more strings and experience??

Not sure where I stand on Moore. He’s obviously a big piece of our future (or is he?) We don’t seem well structured when he plays and I haven’t seen too much lately. Hopefully he/the coaches will find his place in the team because early signs were good.

Whilst it’s said we’re currently missing many “best 22”, I see only Elliot, probably Fasolo and also Wells - who is a short term proposition only. Taylor, Broomy, Moore, I’m currently happy with the cover.

These are good problems to have really.

I think a fit Adams is still best 22. In terms of attack on the footy & desperation he is pretty much #1 at the club. In the big, high pressure games you can't get enough of that. I would prefer us to use him as our inside and defensive mid. He can win clearances, contested footy and prevent oppo doing same. His weakness is disposal but if you an have him feeding the others we can maximise his strengths. Attempts to move him to half back or even half forward seemed odd & unsuited to me. Play him inside where he can hurt people and rotate our class players outside and through the forward line. Effectively he will come in for Cal Brown IMO.

Wills I do like as well. Harder to see where we can fit him in but I think he can be a beast around stoppages and again release those outside. Effectively if he is coming in (without injuries to others) it will be for Thomas. But JT is more than holding his own.

We have Langdon, Shaz & Howe down back who are quite similar in roles they can play. I really want to see Howe freed up to do his thing currently being more of an accountable defender while Langdon intercepts. Shaz has been solid and makes good decisions. Langdon intercepts really well but makes somre poor decisions and some basic errors. I would be moving Moore in to play Howe's role so Howe can go back to interceptor which means Langdon out. Moore can dominate territory and area much like a Rance, can play on talls as well as the athletic types.

Elliot will come in for Crocker. Fas I am wavering on being an auto inclusion - I am liking the WHE, Stephenson speed fest. Wells also needs to come in, not sure who for, but on form it could be Varcoe who is slightly off at the moment.

 

[HFF]

Hard game for forwards but I really can't stand seeing Fasolo at this level.

He needs to be in our best side.

He makes us so much better and dangerous inside 50.

For the love of god, please play him in the seniors.

 

[September Action]

These are good problems to have really.

I think a fit Adams is still best 22. In terms of attack on the footy & desperation he is pretty much #1 at the club. In the big, high pressure games you can't get enough of that. I would prefer us to use him as our inside and defensive mid. He can win clearances, contested footy and prevent oppo doing same. His weakness is disposal but if you an have him feeding the others we can maximise his strengths. Attempts to move him to half back or even half forward seemed odd & unsuited to me. Play him inside where he can hurt people and rotate our class players outside and through the forward line. Effectively he will come in for Cal Brown IMO.

Wills I do like as well. Harder to see where we can fit him in but I think he can be a beast around stoppages and again release those outside. Effectively if he is coming in (without injuries to others) it will be for Thomas. But JT is more than holding his own.

We have Langdon, Shaz & Howe down back who are quite similar in roles they can play. I really want to see Howe freed up to do his thing currently being more of an accountable defender while Langdon intercepts. Shaz has been solid and makes good decisions. Langdon intercepts really well but makes somre poor decisions and some basic errors. I would be moving Moore in to play Howe's role so Howe can go back to interceptor which means Langdon out. Moore can dominate territory and area much like a Rance, can play on talls as well as the athletic types.

Elliot will come in for Crocker. Fas I am wavering on being an auto inclusion - I am liking the WHE, Stephenson speed fest. Wells also needs to come in, not sure who for, but on form it could be Varcoe who is slightly off at the moment.

Nice assessment.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Hard game for forwards but I really can't stand seeing Fasolo at this level.

He needs to be in our best side.

He makes us so much better and dangerous inside 50.

For the love of god, please play him in the seniors.

He needs to produce something at this level to prove he deserves to play seniors.

Like Medhurst in 2010 he’s not doing anywhere near enough to warrant a game.

 

[MagpieBat]

And so, the ladder to complete Round 2:



What a difference a week makes. Stand-alone powerhouses Port Melbourne and Williamstown return to their accustomed places on the winner's list, yet neither were able to rise beyond their places from Round 1. Conversely, the 1st and 2nd placed teams from the opening split-round, Essendon and Collingwood, both lost and dropped down the ladder significantly. Of note, 98.03 (yes, you read that right) came off our percentage. The fickleness of football (and mathematics)...

Sunday VFL saw a pair of thrillers, with North Melbourne coming from 25 points down at three quarter time to snatch a grim three point victory from a vastly improved Northern Blues in the Kangaroos' inaugural match as a VFL side, while Sandringham did what its AFL affiliate was unable to do: beat Geelong. The Zebras came from 15 points down early in the final quarter to slam on four of the last five goals and squeak home with a two point win.

From the Collingwood perspective, our loss to the Borough and Essendon's fade-out against the Seagulls sets up an interesting ANZAC Round clash on the newly reworked turf of Victoria Park next Saturday afternoon. Both clubs have similar length AFL injury lists, but are almost certain to hold back at least one fit player as cover for Wednesday week's ANZAC Day game. Both sides could climb back into the Top 4 with a victory and enter their Round 4 bye well placed from their first three weeks.

 

[sr36]

He can win clearances, contested footy and prevent oppo doing same. His weakness is disposal but if you an have him feeding the others we can maximise his strengths.

I'd like him to predominately play as a run with midfielder. Him feeding others isn't a great option as he's got little composure in congestion. He's a win footy and then smash it forward kind of inside mid. I reckon he's also been quite good when used off half back, but Crisp and Murray and their run is looking too good to mess with.

 

[sr36]

One though that I would lock in barring injury (touching copious amounts of wood) is Sier for Brown post ANZAC day. Wills won’t be far off either.

I would have thought a youngster like Brown who doesn't seem to have any injury concerns would be more likely to get up for the Tiges game than guys like Treloar and Pendles. I'll be surprised if Brown makes way, unless it's for form. I'm betting Wells in and Treloar out.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I went today and conditions were foul. The first half was played in the rain and we looked ok, but it was contest after contest, pack after pack the entire game.
It dried out for the second half, but the pattern of play sadly continued and it was Port who got the upper hand.
Notables such as Wells did not do a great deal and as others have noted he sat out the last quarter. It was difficult for him in the wet but Mihocec wasn’t clean and fumbled a lot.
Blair was as expected in and under a lot and wasn’t too bad. Wills and Sier crashed and bashed but overall were rather ineffective. Daicos tried, but his disposal let him down.
McLarty being his size was noticeable without again doing too much. Given their experience you should expect more from Fasolo and Mayne.
Difficult conditions, but overall we did not play well at all and were deservedly beaten. No one really put their hand up for senior selection from this game.

Your report is both slightly vindicating and illuminating. The best players list made no mention of two bodies, Wills and Sier, that should have benefited from appalling conditions. 'They crashed and bashed but were ineffective'. Why ineffective? Were the conditions just so bad that no one, other than Appleby, looked effective?

McLarty is one player I'd have liked to see make the list, because soon he will soon be called us if our injuries persist. We are just one big injured KPP of him playing. Daicos, for what it's worth, made the list and even Blair got a mention. No Fasolo or Wells. Fasolo is hardly bashing down the selection door.