Round 2 v Gold Coast, Sunday Evening @ Etihad Stadium

[mysainters]

I dont like it.

Milera did a great job as a forward on Sunday, let him learn this role, its one we've been crying out for.

But then do we really need Siposs and Saad ( neither who are really pushing for selection )?

By all accounts Ray and Polo weren't pushing for theirs.

I just think it's time to plan other options besides Gram and Peake, but I'm happy to disagree.

 

[mysainters]

This is becoming a recurring feature.

Kosi started well against the Eagles, but ended with 9 possessions.

He was flying against the filth - marking everything in the first half - but again finished with 9 possessions.

Some early goals on the weekend, but only 6 possessions.

Given Rhys seems to be the preferred ruck back-up, do we need to sub Kosi off during games (or is there a fitness issue that will fade as the season progresses)?

Would you agree the gameplan appears to be changing.

Appeared to be alot of surging the ball forward, guys like Hayes, Jones, Peake, Stanley, Milne running onto it?

Kosi is there as a tall target, but whoever plays that role will find themselves with less delivery as a result.

He converted the opportunties presented to him, but other than continuing to lead and keep defenders busy, what do you suggest he does? He had a distinct height/weight advantage, but if the style dictates that often the mids/smalls will be running onto the ball?

They are also developing Rhys in the ruck at the moment, so it's unfair (IMO) to expect Kosi to get as much of it as say a Dawes or a Hale (both who spend legit time in there)

 

[krusden]

He was serviceable however made the same ol' mistakes. He doesnt have the run and carry that Gilbert and Fisher have so he's the one to make way for Simpkin who is demanding a game.

He kicks better than Gilbert does. Gilbo has run and carry that's true, however it's his disposal that's just not up to scratch.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

He kicks better than Gilbert does. Gilbo has run and carry that's true, however it's his disposal that's just not up to scratch.

Both poor by foot however Gilbert can at least penetrate with his kicking. Blake plays more within his own limitations.....Something Gilbert needs to learn. I'd take Gilbert over the two - better mark, quicker and harder at the contest IMO.

 

[Sheeza69]

Too tall, no Ledger, Ross fairly undeserving.

So while I agree with Wilkes and Simpkin, tall players in means tall players out.

So that means something like Kosi and Gilbert out for these two.

Think we are missing Gram, Gwilt and Schneids. That would certainly improve the quality of the side.

How could i miss Tommy Ledger, Ledger an absolute gun, anybody notice any similiarity to a young Benny Cousins.

Rossy is willing, team orientated & quietly racks up "important" touches..
He throws his body into the contest, is disciplined lays a very good tackle..

Maybe another week with the Zebras for Rossy..

Last Sun we gifted Port with 3 or 4 goals through undiscplined & soft footy..

That's why Watters needs to back up his famous quotes & throw out the birth certificates..

And really, what will we miss with Peake, Ray, Polo & to a slightly lesser degree Gilbert & Kozzie out of the side..

Though i would like to see both given another couple of weeks before their card's are marked..

Koz gave away 4 FREE kicks as per usual & Gliby's foot disposal is woeful..

We are exposed atm, though i believe we have the depth & talent coming through to still offer a very competitive side this year..

Stanley's speed sees me considering him as a tall wingman a la Matty Richardson..

Montagna as a defensive wingman & Stanley as an offensive wingman..i like it

Montagna to set up attacking forays just like Aussie Jones a few years back..his foot disposal is excellent..

Gilby's last chance, is as a midfielder, as his pace & run is of his main strengths, use it to move the ball quicker & create..

We were also slow to move the ball last week for much of the game..

Except.." WHEN WE BANGED ON SEVEN GOALS IN THE SECOND QUARTER.."......HELLO

Therefore take on the opposition more, move the ball quicker with purpose, which in turn places the opposition under extreme pressure.
.
Isn't that part of the new game plan..???

In: Ledger, Wilkes, Simpkin,
Out: Polo, Ray, Peake,

B: Geary, Blake, Simpkin,
HB: Dempster, Fisher, Montagna
C: Hayes, Dal Santo, Stanley
HF: Ledger, Riewoldt, Milera,
F:Milne, Wilkes, Steven
R: McEvoy, Goddard, Jones,
Int: Koz, Cripps, Gilbert, Armitage

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So far every time I've seen Ledger play, despite anything else , his size, his use of the ball, whaterver, Hes a ball magnet. Ball magnets are good.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

By all accounts Ray and Polo weren't pushing for theirs.

I just think it's time to plan other options besides Gram and Peake, but I'm happy to disagree.

Why are you comparing Ray and Polo to Siposs. Its like talking about bringing in Saad because McEvoy was ordinary.

 

[StFly]

Both poor by foot however Gilbert can at least penetrate with his kicking. Blake plays more within his own limitations.....Something Gilbert needs to learn. I'd take Gilbert over the two - better mark, quicker and harder at the contest IMO.

Truth be told I'd have sought to trade Gilbert after '10, as there was, seemingly, no effort whatsoever from the man to rectify his poor disposal by foot as he continues to engage in the same actions for the same result of turnover goals/shots on by the opposition, and I am frankly at the end of my rope with a lighter ready to set the entire thing on fire with how much ToG and time on the main list he gets whilst better users by foot either sit there or are the ones that get traded out instead.

Still, I hope beyond hope that he'll grow a brain, pull a Jonesy and at least attempt to work on a better action to shank less, but at present, it looks like another year of of 40+% of Gilbo either getting lucky overshooting or grubbering to a "friendly location" or a downright out of position turnover mongrel.

Sure, skills at this stage will be slightly rusty as cobwebs are removed and fitness is restored to the levels they need to be at, but can anyone honestly say that they see Gilbo improving his disposal by foot this season? Because I simply can't.

 

[stkildathunda]

Why are you comparing Ray and Polo to Siposs. Its like talking about bringing in Saad because McEvoy was ordinary.

Well if McEvoy does go down we might be forced to given our lack of other options

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Truth be told I'd have sought to trade Gilbert after '10, as there was, seemingly, no effort whatsoever from the man to rectify his poor disposal by foot as he continues to engage in the same actions for the same result of turnover goals/shots on by the opposition, and I am frankly at the end of my rope with a lighter ready to set the entire thing on fire with how much ToG and time on the main list he gets whilst better users by foot either sit there or are the ones that get traded out instead.

Still, I hope beyond hope that he'll grow a brain, pull a Jonesy and at least attempt to work on a better action to shank less, but at present, it looks like another year of of 40+% of Gilbo either getting lucky overshooting or grubbering to a "friendly location" or a downright out of position turnover mongrel.

Sure, skills at this stage will be slightly rusty as cobwebs are removed and fitness is restored to the levels they need to be at, but can anyone honestly say that they see Gilbo improving his disposal by foot this season? Because I simply can't.

We're lucky Gilbert was the only half decent draft since Fisher--oops Gwilt.
We need him until someone better, Hopefully Ferg for Gilbert and Cripps for Gram.

 

[mysainters]

Why are you comparing Ray and Polo to Siposs. Its like talking about bringing in Saad because McEvoy was ordinary.

I didn't think I was.

The only comparison I was making was in response to you saying Siposs doesn't deserve to be selected.

Neither did Ray, does that make sense?

 

[hayes]

Whether Gilbert can kick or not is irrelevant IMO because due to a lack of options he's pretty much a key back now. What we need is a Cripps, Fisher or Goddard to run past him for the handball receive or just take less risky kicks.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I didn't think I was.

The only comparison I was making was in response to you saying Siposs doesn't deserve to be selected.

Neither did Ray, does that make sense?

If we assume that Ledger was not fit to play as suggested, who was? Ross? Crocker?

I just hope the spate of hamstrings doesnt reflect the loss of Misson.

 

[Kildonan]

I'm going to make 3 selection switches:

Out: Gilbert (I know, Punter, I know... but sheesh, how bad was he?!)
In: Simpkin
Because Gilbert has been shown to be crap in his former role, and he's tall, he's been moved into Zac's role. But he's crap at that, too. Simpkin is a fantastic player, and should have been picked last week in the first place. Tall back for a real tall back.

Out: Polo
In: Ledger
Assuming that Ledger "just wasn't right", then he comes in to replace Polo. Maybe Polo is unlucky. I wasn't uber impressed, but hey. Ultimately, his performance is irrelevant, since he's suspended anyway.

Out: Ray
In: Wilkes
If Ray hadn't played, nobody wouldn't have noticed. I think Wilkes coming in DOES create a bit of a risk that we'll be too tall. But hey. Frankly, I think that Kosi's three goals and then stuff all is saving his butt. Sippos has to earn it. Ray should have had to earn it.

The only other option is bringing in Saad as a burst player, with his pace and flair. But he hasn't really taken the bull by the horns either.

And it is so mindblowingly bleedingly obvious that Kosi should be subbed. Like, wow. Especially when they've taken a tall ruck off.
Ugh...

I an in perfect agreement with this. I just don't think the club will let it happen. Gilbert has been a protected species for years. Watters has to be brutal.

 

[Noidenous]

What I'd like to see against Gold Coast (no decoy positioning):



F L Milne Koschitzke Stanley R
Stanley to tactically support by pushing forward towards the wing and running back as link/tall option for Milera/Milne after crumb. Kosi to use space and lead forward after Reiwoldt/Stanley drag defenders away from goal.


HF Milera Reiwoldt Steven
Milera for link delivery and decisions. Steven for run out of centre using high ball if Kosi can't lead. Reiwoldt to stick to a narrow V from the goalsquare (no boundary leads) using bursts from one flank to opposite centre-wing.


C Dal Santo Hayes Cripps
Dal Santo to drop into flank when Goddard forced to middle. Cripps to receive ball and run/crumb Reiwoldt.


HB Goddard Fisher Dempster/Geary


B Simpkin Blake Geary/Dempster
Blake in goalsquare for body contest. Simpkin/Fisher coverage.


Foll McEvoy Jones Montagna
Jones to focus on Ablett and try to limit his quick hands. Montagna the roaming link/delivery.

Interchange:
Ledger
Armitage
Ray - utility

Sub - Wilkes


Out: Polo (susp)
Gilbert
Peake

In: Ledger
Ray
Simpkin


All parties threatened with a drop to Sandringham if they fail to hit targets.


Having Gold Coast means we can afford to squeeze in another couple of youngsters and use it to justify disciplinary/developmental/motivational omissions. This squad should give a good mix of size, speed/mobility and ball control.

Would rather Dempster play back-pocket, but don't want to leave Geary on a roaming flanker. Serious shortage in tall/big defenders, but Simpkin can have a run out. Ray was asked to perform an impossible task for someone of his build on Sunday and can prove his skill rotating half-back/wing with carry and marking abillity.

Wilkes as the sub allows for a bit more flexibility if required, plus coverage if Ray needs need to fill in for an injured defender or Koschitzke/Stanley need to cover for McEvoy.

5 upcomers:

Ledger
Steven
Milera (not a kid as such)
Simpkin
Stanley

 

[gilbert the best]

I'm confused here. You are saying that they have a "loose man forward" because they arent bothering to man up on Gilbert who is a defender.

If gilbert has the ball and runs off then turns it over, and they rebound gilberts man will be by himself in the forward line.
They have to get games into simpkin, last year he done well when given the chance to step up, and should never have been subbed off at half time (forget who against) he was playing really well.
One more thing, the saints were very underdone last week and in need of a gallop, so I dont think things are quite as bad as they seem.

 

[Squizz]

Would you agree the gameplan appears to be changing.

Appeared to be alot of surging the ball forward, guys like Hayes, Jones, Peake, Stanley, Milne running onto it?

Kosi is there as a tall target, but whoever plays that role will find themselves with less delivery as a result.

He converted the opportunties presented to him, but other than continuing to lead and keep defenders busy, what do you suggest he does? He had a distinct height/weight advantage, but if the style dictates that often the mids/smalls will be running onto the ball?

They are also developing Rhys in the ruck at the moment, so it's unfair (IMO) to expect Kosi to get as much of it as say a Dawes or a Hale (both who spend legit time in there)

Not sure I follow.

Kosi is impacting early in games, but disappearing after half time (the gameplan doesn't appear to be relevant unless you are suggesting it changes at half time).

If he's not getting the ball, then at least you'd expect he wouldn't be giving away free kicks (4) and 50 metre penalties (2).

 

[OhMyGoddard]

Haha! If we dropped every bloke you couldn't kick straight to the VFL, we wouldn't have enough men left to field a team... and Sandy would have one hell of a CHF!

 

[Squizz]

Interesting comment following the local game up there:

"Our captain, (Andrew) McQualter was probably our best today. He is a rookie listed player, who if we had an opportunity to play him up he almost would have been pushing for a senior spot this week.”

 

[Persevering Saint]

Interesting comment following the local game up there:

"Our captain, (Andrew) McQualter was probably our best today. He is a rookie listed player, who if we had an opportunity to play him up he almost would have been pushing for a senior spot this week.”

If that's the case, I'm suddenly brimming with confidence for this game.

If Mini is in their best, then they must be crap.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Interesting comment following the local game up there:

"Our captain, (Andrew) McQualter was probably our best today. He is a rookie listed player, who if we had an opportunity to play him up he almost would have been pushing for a senior spot this week.”

Yeah he was pretty good in VFL too Squizzy.
Some players just can't bridge the gap, and on occasion players who do well in AFL don't seem like much at the lower levels.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Actually, I'm throwing in another CRAZY ("like a FOX") selection:

Out: Riewoldt
In: Wilkes

What I mean is, not dropping Riewoldt (that's about disciplining bad performance), but MANAGING him. I know we lost last week, but I think we have to recognise that at this point in his career, just playing Riewoldt for the sake of it isn't smart. I don't think Geelong would have wasted him on GC last year. Instead, get Wilkes out there, and see what he can do.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Actually, I'm throwing in another CRAZY ("like a FOX") selection:

Out: Riewoldt
In: Wilkes

What I mean is, not dropping Riewoldt (that's about disciplining bad performance), but MANAGING him. I know we lost last week, but I think we have to recognise that at this point in his career, just playing Riewoldt for the sake of it isn't smart. I don't think Geelong would have wasted him on GC last year. Instead, get Wilkes out there, and see what he can do.

I like your thinking Perce but not sure he needs to be rested due to management in Round 2. The boys will want to make a statement this week and are still trying to get things clicking. GWS in Round 23 would be a top time if we're in finals contention. We very rarely smash sides and % is important, so let's get our best blokes out there and get the result.

 

[Squizz]

I just figure Ledger comes in for the suspended Polo.

Pelchen has hinted that Sippa needs VFL goals before being considered (although it seems he'd had a big impact in the first quarter before getting injured).

Jones will probably play to get the job on the ducker.

Simpkin would be some sort of chance, but really depends on what they're doing with Dempster (I don't get it).

Peake was a bit ordinary for mine, and Faz a strange selection.

Would we be too tall with Wilkes? Kosi (after half time), Roo (below his knees) and Macca (lack of pace and leap doesn't seem to offset his fitness and good hands given our struggles at the stoppages) are of some concern to me.

Cripps has the pace, but for mine should be playing VFL until he learns to use it and break tackles.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I just figure Ledger comes in for the suspended Polo.

Pelchen has hinted that Sippa needs VFL goals before being considered (although it seems he'd had a big impact in the first quarter before getting injured).

Jones will probably play to get the job on the ducker.

Simpkin would be some sort of chance, but really depends on what they're doing with Dempster (I don't get it).

Peake was a bit ordinary for mine, and Faz a strange selection.

Would we be too tall with Wilkes? Kosi (after half time), Roo (below his knees) and Macca (lack of pace and leap doesn't seem to offset his fitness and good hands given our struggles at the stoppages) are of some concern to me.

Cripps has the pace, but for mine should be playing VFL until he learns to use it and break tackles.

I'd give Simpkin a shot down back to release Boogie. Seems to be better for team balance. Running Boogie with Brennan appeals to me.