Autopsy Round 20, 2021 v Essendon - first win against Bombers at the MCG in 98 years

[caesar88]

Theres been a few posts about Florent. Horse likes to get these 'kids' able to play multiple positions. Get the feeling Horse sees that ability as very important in the modern game.
Gulden - inside, outside, half forward
Florent - Inside, outside, half back
J Mac - Inside, outside, half back, half forward
Blakey - ........ etc etc etc
I reckon Florent will settle into a position in the next couple of years (Ill back inside mid - but who knows who's to come into the team??) and play that position 60ish% of the game. Same can be said for many of the team.
Unless Elite in one position, ie. How Mills is tracking, Players will be shifted around to create the best match ups and also create confusion for the opposition.

I don't disagree, however a few of those you mention already show they can be potentially elite in the one position.

McInerney looks like a future A grade wingman or half back, made to be in time and space where he can use his elite running and good ball use. Ditto Blakey. Ditto Gulden. Put them in the guts where they're under more pressure with less time and space to use and you will not see them at their best. Today I saw Errol dumped in multiple tackles and McInerney butchering some kicks because they were both under pressure they're not used to. I don't want to see that from either of them. It's just an unnecessary change that won't actually help them or the team.

Their elite talents are suited to the outside. There are others whose elite talents are actually suited to the inside, and they do their best work in the contest. We have enough depth of talent in both areas to not need for these types to be overlapping.

 

[SGBeach]

I don't disagree, however a few of those you mention already show they can be potentially elite in the one position.

McInerney looks like a future A grade wingman or half back, made to be in time and space where he can use his elite running and good ball use. Ditto Blakey. Ditto Gulden. Put them in the guts where they're under more pressure with less time and space to use and you will not see them at their best. Today I saw Errol dumped in multiple tackles and McInerney butchering some kicks because they were both under pressure they're not used to. I don't want to see that from either of them. It's just an unnecessary change that won't actually help them or the team.

Their elite talents are suited to the outside. There are others whose elite talents are actually suited to the inside, and they do their best work in the contest. We have enough depth of talent in both areas to not need for these types to be overlapping.

Elite talents on the outside.. Dawson, Blakey, Gulden, J Mac, Campbell, Stephens, Florent, Heeney..........
Yep We've got lots of very good to elite outside players. Some/all will need to mix it up for the good of the team. They can't all play on the wing.

You say J Mac butchered some kicks because he was under pressure. All inside players do, all players under pressure do. That pressure is a major key to the Swans success this year. Don't you think its good to learn how to cope with that pressure? Dont you think its good to mix the positions around to create the best match ups for us and destroy the oppositions match up?
eg. Last week Heeney moved to the wing after half time and turned the game..
J Mac still went over 80% disposal efficiency even with all his butchery

Whos Elite on the inside?
Parker - people have been calling him too slow for 18months (not so much recently)
JPK - ditto Parker
Mills - Yes becoming that way
Hewett - No
Rowbum / Warner - to be determined
I don't reckon Hewett will be on the list next year, JPK will play less minutes next year (his final year), Rowbum, Warner and all those outside mids will need to help Parker and Mills

Horse is always developing these players - that's what coaches do

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Blakey’s top speed was rated at 32.4kph which was that sublime passage of play where he burnt off Tipungwuti and hit up Papley.

 

[caesar88]

Elite talents on the outside.. Dawson, Blakey, Gulden, J Mac, Campbell, Stephens, Florent, Heeney..........
Yep We've got lots of very good to elite outside players. Some/all will need to mix it up for the good of the team. They can't all play on the wing.

You say J Mac butchered some kicks because he was under pressure. All inside players do, all players under pressure do. That pressure is a major key to the Swans success this year. Don't you think its good to learn how to cope with that pressure? Dont you think its good to mix the positions around to create the best match ups for us and destroy the oppositions match up?
eg. Last week Heeney moved to the wing after half time and turned the game..
J Mac still went over 80% disposal efficiency even with all his butchery

Whos Elite on the inside?
Parker - people have been calling him too slow for 18months (not so much recently)
JPK - ditto Parker
Mills - Yes becoming that way
Hewett - No
Rowbum / Warner - to be determined
I don't reckon Hewett will be on the list next year, JPK will play less minutes next year (his final year), Rowbum, Warner and all those outside mids will need to help Parker and Mills

Horse is always developing these players - that's what coaches do

I know that all inside players butcher some kicks because they are under more pressure. I'm saying to keep our outside players who have great composure and skill away from those roles where that composure and skill could end up compromised.

 

[Kiama Chris]

If this was correct Essendon must have won the game! They had six of the top 10 players!
Merrett had his best ever game and Paps his best this year. That at least seems pretty right.
Three Dons scored zero or less.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Blakey’s top speed was rated at 32.4kph which was that sublime passage of play where he burnt off Tipungwuti and hit up Papley.

Left Tippa for absolute dead!

 

[SGBeach]

I know that all inside players butcher some kicks because they are under more pressure. I'm saying to keep our outside players who have great composure and skill away from those roles where that composure and skill could end up compromised.

I know what you're saying.. and I disagree.
Im saying the ability to play multiple roles is very important, that we've a truckload of players who would play well on a wing, that these players also have something different to offer other parts of the ground - to quote Horse "he offers a point of difference in the contest"
Id look forward in a couple of years to see Heeney, Florent, Campbell, Dawson, Gulden, J Mac, Stephens, Blakey (all of whoms best position is arguably on the wing) playing at the same time

 

[SGBeach]

If this was correct Essendon must have won the game! They had six of the top 10 players!
Merrett had his best ever game and Paps his best this year. That at least seems pretty right.
Three Dons scored zero or less.

I reckon its pretty funny funny that Stephens warmed the bench so well, He scored higher than three bombers. Imagine what he can do when he actually plays!

 

[caesar88]

I know what you're saying.. and I disagree.
Im saying the ability to play multiple roles is very important, that we've a truckload of players who would play well on a wing, that these players also have something different to offer other parts of the ground - to quote Horse "he offers a point of difference in the contest"
Id look forward in a couple of years to see Heeney, Florent, Campbell, Dawson, Gulden, J Mac, Stephens, Blakey (all of whoms best position is arguably on the wing) playing at the same time

I don't think McInerney was a point of difference on the inside. A point of difference would be someone suited to the contest doing something different in the contest. I thought he just became another mid getting rag-dolled and not being overly clever with it. As a huge fan of McInerney, I don't wanna see that. Not saying it's his fault, just think it's not what's best for him.

I also think that it's unrealistic to expect all of those you mentioned to be playing in the one team. If Campbell and Stephens were both getting games this year, it would be because they've pushed say Florent and Gulden out. You then also have to fit our kids for the inside in - Rowbottom and Warner.

There just isn't enough room for all of them, and so something will have to give. If one of our experienced players gets injured, that could be that something. Or maybe a Dawson or a Stephens leave, that could also be that something. So I don't think we will have the logjam on the wing that you think we'll have. There's also a thing called the flanks: I think Blakey and McInerney are suited to the HBF, and Heeney and Gulden are suited to the HFF, Dawson and maybe Campbell are suited to both. So it's not like they can only play as strictly an inside or an outside mid.

 

[Kapers]

I don't disagree, however a few of those you mention already show they can be potentially elite in the one position.

McInerney looks like a future A grade wingman or half back, made to be in time and space where he can use his elite running and good ball use. Ditto Blakey. Ditto Gulden. Put them in the guts where they're under more pressure with less time and space to use and you will not see them at their best. Today I saw Errol dumped in multiple tackles and McInerney butchering some kicks because they were both under pressure they're not used to. I don't want to see that from either of them. It's just an unnecessary change that won't actually help them or the team.

Their elite talents are suited to the outside. There are others whose elite talents are actually suited to the inside, and they do their best work in the contest. We have enough depth of talent in both areas to not need for these types to be overlapping.

I think it was an interesting move by Longmire, because in a way it worked. We got a much more attacking set up and basically committed to outscoring them.

Now do I think it's a long term fix? No, I think this is purely short term.

I don't think we should be too afraid of having McInerney or Gulden in there for stints when we need to score heavily, although I do agree that they are best with there speed and dazzling kicks.

 

[Kapers]

I don't think McInerney was a point of difference on the inside. A point of difference would be someone suited to the contest doing something different in the contest. I thought he just became another mid getting rag-dolled and not being overly clever with it. As a huge fan of McInerney, I don't wanna see that. Not saying it's his fault, just think it's not what's best for him.

I also think that it's unrealistic to expect all of those you mentioned to be playing in the one team. If Campbell and Stephens were both getting games this year, it would be because they've pushed say Florent and Gulden out. You then also have to fit our kids for the inside in - Rowbottom and Warner.

There just isn't enough room for all of them, and so something will have to give. If one of our experienced players gets injured, that could be that something. Or maybe a Dawson or a Stephens leave, that could also be that something. So I don't think we will have the logjam on the wing that you think we'll have. There's also a thing called the flanks: I think Blakey and McInerney are suited to the HBF, and Heeney and Gulden are suited to the HFF, Dawson and maybe Campbell are suited to both. So it's not like they can only play as strictly an inside or an outside mid.

I actually think McInerney did offer a point of difference and that was pace out of the centre. A few times he was able to get an extra millisecond of time.

As I said before, this wasn't the best use of him, nor was it a long term fix, but I don't think we should dismiss it outright.

 

[Superstar swan]

When did hind become so fast? He left our players for dead today, don’t recall that speed at st kilda

 

[Kapers]

I think our midfield is a really interesting problem, because it obviously isn't working from a spectators side. I feel if we wanted to fox the midfield outfit now we would have to go full North and just have centre bounces with kids in it.

We aren't in a position to do that, and we probably won't until we get Rowbottom and Warner back (who I see as a long term duo).

 

[Kapers]

When did hind become so fast? He left our players for dead today, don’t recall that speed at st kilda

Shows you what a position change does. Essendon are probably asking the same thing about Blakey

 

[SGBeach]

I actually think McInerney did offer a point of difference and that was pace out of the centre. A few times he was able to get an extra millisecond of time.

As I said before, this wasn't the best use of him, nor was it a long term fix, but I don't think we should dismiss it outright.

It may not be his best position, but 29 disposals at over 80% efficiency with the 2nd most clearances and the most contested possessions is a good game. Very handy to have players that can come from half back, or the wing, or half forward and play stints in the inside.
Also, I reckon Horse sees J Mac and others having stints inside in the long term.

C88 - I give up, you're never wrong

 

[caesar88]

I think it was an interesting move by Longmire, because in a way it worked. We got a much more attacking set up and basically committed to outscoring them.

Now do I think it's a long term fix? No, I think this is purely short term.

I don't think we should be too afraid of having McInerney or Gulden in there for stints when we need to score heavily, although I do agree that they are best with there speed and dazzling kicks.

I gotta say I don't think McInerney and Gulden changed the midfield at all though. Our midfield was the same across all four quarters. What turned the game into a free-flowing shoot-out, and therefore in our favour, was our half backs got a lot more involved - the Dawsons, Blakeys, Lloyds and Rampes - and we were able to tidy up our forward entries to capitalise on their rebounding. As far as the centre was concerned, we still got absolutely pantsed - 23 to 11 in centre clearances and they didn't get any cleaner.

McInerney and Gulden combined for just one of those clearances and had 4 possessions combined at centre bounces. So all we really did was take two of our more creative players and dampen their impact, when if they were away from the contest, we could've actually been more dangerous and further in front.

 

[caesar88]

C88 - I give up, you're never wrong

Why can't we ever have a discussion and offer our views even if they are different without you thinking that there has to be some kind of winner? I enjoyed reading your thoughts on our wing rotations and I responded with the ways I agreed and disagreed with it. You were free to do the same. I come in peace

 

[Kapers]

I gotta say I don't think McInerney and Gulden changed the midfield at all though. Our midfield was the same across all four quarters. What turned the game into a free-flowing shoot-out, and therefore in our favour, was our half backs got a lot more involved - the Dawsons, Blakeys, Lloyds and Rampes - and we were able to tidy up our forward entries to capitalise on their rebounding. As far as the centre was concerned, we still got absolutely pantsed - 23 to 11 in centre clearances and they didn't get any cleaner.

McInerney and Gulden combined for just one of those clearances and had 4 possessions combined at centre bounces. So all we really did was take two of our more creative players and dampen their impact, when if they were away from the contest, we could've actually been more dangerous and further in front.

But what led to the free flowing nature of the game? Tbf I have to watch the game again to be 100% sure, but I do feel that having McInerney in there gave is a more attacking mindset, and Hewett down back is solid enough to replace him. I don't care too much about stat's inside the centre, since McInerney attracted more attention from opposition mids because he could run out faster than the other blokes, making it easier for the main guys to take an extra second.

I will watch the game again, because I saying most of this from memory, and if there is one thing more unreliable than Reid's set shots it's my memory.

 

[caesar88]

Maybe I am being too quick to downplay McInerney's potential in the midfield. I just think he is one of our best young players for all the things he's showed in his career prior to today. I've never doubted his ability to find the ball, crack in and get his hands dirty. I just have no interest in seeing him do any of those things, as we have others who can, and I love him for his outside game.

 

[Kapers]

Maybe I am being too quick to downplay McInerney's potential in the midfield. I just think he is one of our best young players for all the things he's showed in his career prior to today. I've never doubted his ability to find the ball, crack in and get his hands dirty. I just have no interest in seeing him do any of those things, as we have others who can, and I love him for his outside game.

I 100% back this up. Just because McDonald has a great field kick and a solid tank doesn't mean he should play in the midfield.
Just becuase a player can play somewhere doesn't mean he should.
But it is an interesting emergency tool that I haven't seen used yet.

 

[caesar88]

But what led to the free flowing nature of the game? Tbf I have to watch the game again to be 100% sure, but I do feel that having McInerney in there gave is a more attacking mindset, and Hewett down back is solid enough to replace him. I don't care too much about stat's inside the centre, since McInerney attracted more attention from opposition mids because he could run out faster than the other blokes, making it easier for the main guys to take an extra second.

I will watch the game again, because I saying most of this from memory, and if there is one thing more unreliable than Reid's set shots it's my memory.

Fair enough. As a midfield geek I kept a pretty close eye on him and I thought he offered nothing different. Neither did Errol. And neither did Hewett. But it's a thankless role trying to play supporting cast in our midfield. For better or worse, our midfield really does hinge on JPK, Parker and Mills.

 

[Superstar swan]

Either way jmac has a tonne of untapped potential, whoever made the draft call on him did an incredible job

 

[caesar88]

I 100% back this up. Just because McDonald has a great field kick and a solid tank doesn't mean he should play in the midfield.
Just becuase a player can play somewhere doesn't mean he should.
But it is an interesting emergency tool that I haven't seen used yet.

I suppose the promising thing is even though I didn't like the move itself, I liked the idea behind it. It shows that Horse recognised something needed to change in there and he backed an attacking kid to go in and do it.

Could mean that we rush Warner back in or go with Rowbottom again to avoid having to make a "break glass in case of emergency" move at HT to get an attacking mid in there. (I hope we resist on both fronts.)

 

[mtooler]

Elite talents on the outside.. Dawson, Blakey, Gulden, J Mac, Campbell, Stephens, Florent, Heeney..........
Yep We've got lots of very good to elite outside players. Some/all will need to mix it up for the good of the team. They can't all play on the wing.

You say J Mac butchered some kicks because he was under pressure. All inside players do, all players under pressure do. That pressure is a major key to the Swans success this year. Don't you think its good to learn how to cope with that pressure? Dont you think its good to mix the positions around to create the best match ups for us and destroy the oppositions match up?
eg. Last week Heeney moved to the wing after half time and turned the game..
J Mac still went over 80% disposal efficiency even with all his butchery

Whos Elite on the inside?
Parker - people have been calling him too slow for 18months (not so much recently)
JPK - ditto Parker
Mills - Yes becoming that way
Hewett - No
Rowbum / Warner - to be determined
I don't reckon Hewett will be on the list next year, JPK will play less minutes next year (his final year), Rowbum, Warner and all those outside mids will need to help Parker and Mills

Horse is always developing these players - that's what coaches do

You said Florent is elite on the outside. Surely that will receive a moderator amendment!

 

[cherub]

Is there a more excruciating position than medical sub? Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

looked forlorn on the bench. doesn't get to sing the team song. Misses out on a reserves game to increase your chance of a starting place. Would have thought that it doesn't add anything to his development.