Review Round 20 = Collingwood 76-93 Carlton

[barrackers]

Mihocek, Mcstay and Elliot all snapped from close range and kicked them low and poorly. It was weird.

Moore’s kicking to the opposition was also uncharacteristic. One of those days

 

[TW Sherrin]

Moore’s kicking to the opposition was also uncharacteristic. One of those days

Moore kicks low and doesn't have great range. Kicking definitely isn't a strength.

 

[barrackers]

Anyone else feeling pretty similar to how they did after the Melbourne loss? Played s**t, didn't really lose by that much.

I’d be more annoyed if we played somewhere near our best and lost in the manner of last night. Heaps we can improve and still time

 

[ZEV]

We had a tough game, in tough conditions last week, with a short turnaround and it showed last night.

Can't understate the significance of this enough.

Not to mention Carlton had a bruise free skills session against WC and rested a few.

Can't win them all.

Wouldn't want to be HAwthorn next week.

 

[partypie]

When does the depression wear off?

At about 7:00pm next Saturday after we bank a 10 goal win vs the Hawks?

 

[JB1975]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Vicky Park has to wear some responsibility for what happened last night.

In pre-game, she pretty much booked us in for the flag.

She was 'careful' to clarify that this wasn't the beginning of a dynasty, but at least the 2023 premiership was in the bank.

I don't claim to have personal rapport with the divinities but I know that they like to have fun with human 'destiny', especially when it's draped in black and white.

Those who've been around long enough to remember when Carlton were relevant should know better.

 

[YouBeauty]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Vicky Park has to wear some responsibility for what happened last night.

In pre-game, she pretty much booked us in for the flag.

She was 'careful' to clarify that this wasn't the beginning of a dynasty, but at least the 2023 premiership was in the bank.

I don't claim to have personal rapport with the divinities but I know that they like to have fun with human 'destiny', especially when it's draped in black and white.

Those who've been around long enough to remember when Carlton were relevant should know better.

I have no idea what you just said

 

[JLC]

The opposition will pay him respect after this and his accuracy won’t be maintained.

What is that based on?

So how will they pay him respect? A better opponent? Thats good news for Jamie then. For example the blues have McGovern to cover Jamie but no one for Howe.

I am more than happy if any other players want to put up there hands and score three goals in a fourth quarter. Please do.

 

[JB1975]

I have no idea what you just said

You beauty.

 

[Kes1984]

We had a tough game, in tough conditions last week, with a short turnaround and it showed last night.

Agree. Selection issues aside, as I think we’ve made some bad calls that would have contributed to the loss, the major issue last night was our lack of run.

I was saying last week, Carlton would be rubbing their hands together watching the game we played vs the game they played. A tough hard fought finals like game, on a wet boggy ground has to have been pretty taxing. Add to that it was an interstate trip, albeit just to Adelaide. Meanwhile Carlton got to have an easy training drill against the Witches Hat Eagles in Melbourne.

 

[Roverjg]

• Pies won the free kick count 22 to 17. However we all know it is not the amount of free kicks, but where they are paid. We had 1 free kick in F50. They had 5 in F40 directly in front
• We over handballed when a kick would have been a better option. Our kick to HB ration was 1.2 compared to Blues 1.9%
• Poor goal kicking. Our conversion rate was 38% compared to the Blues 61%. Helps with 5 free kicks paid directly in front
• We were constantly caught out by turnovers on transition and clearances. Our mids were constantly caught out forward of centre by the turnovers resulting in the Blues having more players and options their side of centre
• Although I applaud Adam's forward pressure we should NOT be kicking it to Adams/ Titch and have them kicking to our forwards I50. Adams had 4 kicks into 50 last night. All resulted in turnovers. Titch kicked 3 times I50 all resulting in direct turnovers
• Moore should not be kicking out from FB. 8 kicks for 6 direct turnovers resulting in 3 Carlton goals
• Unfortunately one of those nights where everything went wrong

 

[partypie]

What is that based on?

So how will they pay him respect? A better opponent? Thats good news for Jamie then. For example the blues have McGovern to cover Jamie but no one for Howe.

I am more than happy if any other players want to put up there hands and score three goals in a fourth quarter. Please do.

For perspective Carlton had skipped out to a 34 point lead with three early last quarter goals before Howe kicked his first around the 15 minute mark, so it'd be fair to say that some of the heat had come out of the game by then, especially from a defensive standpoint.

Having said that the positive here is that it was hopefully good for his confidence to clunk a few, as he was down last week and has been just a bit off in general since he came back.

TL;DR Howe's goals were pure junk time candy last night, don't count on that happening again if he's starting up forward.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

I've never seen a #1 team looking so vulnerable though. Sure Pies have impressive grit to win the close ones, but to me this team doesn't have the hard edge or discipline of playing four quarters like other #1 teams in the past. This usually gets exposed in finals.

Hope I'm wrong.

I've been worried for a few weeks and that confirms it, we'll have to improve a lot to make the GF and win the flag, on current form we're out in straight sets. Too soft and too many weaknesses.

 

[JuniorB]

Howe's last quarter was about the only positive.
Terrible skills - it was like our players were trying to pick out Carlton players.
Adams was one of the worst offenders, but most were guilty.
Set shots at goal were appalling and our forward line was broken.
McStay tried hard but missed a couple of gimmes.
The rot set in when Beau hit the post from 15m out.
We really missed crumbers around goal - Bobby was ill, but Ginni might have been worth a try.
In the last quarter Crisp tried to do too much a couple of times and got caught.
In general, there was too much cutesy stuff that fell apart under pressure.
Our last quarters seemed last night to have the subconscious effect of thinking we could still win, but after the first 2 goals, we were mostly crap.
Plenty of food for thought from the game, and it's better for it to happen now, rather than in September.

 

[Gaspard]

There are some hard lessons to learn from this loss.

The most important one revolves around how to deal with sides that clog their whole forward area when they get the ball down there so that our preferred tactics for exiting defence cannot be used. Carlton are not the only ones to notice this, and finals intensity will exacerbate our problem.

For some years we have been undone by teams that accurately chip the ball out of their defence, and last night was another example.

The commentators seem unaware of it, but Jamie Elliott is only a reasonable shot at goal from the right hand side. It is another matter from the left side, but he clearly should not be the preferred target on the right. Opposition defences must concede this one to him by preference.

Curnow aside, we cannot rely on such favourable treatment from the umpires as a regular thing. On the umpires, I was so relieved that they only paid deliberate on the one occasion when it was. The other "insufficient intent" ones were thrown in as they should be.

Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

may have cruelled his finals chances. He is usually better in big games.

De Goey in particular has to be able to step up when Nick Daicos is being controlled.

The forward area is still only reasonable unless the ball is well delivered, which it mostly wasn't last night.

And for all this, we only lost by 3 goals after missing 4 easy shots that should have been goals.

 

[danielnajdek]

I thought I'd feel better after having a sleep. Nope.

 

[thebaldfacts]

Howe's last quarter was about the only positive.
Terrible skills - it was like our players were trying to pick out Carlton players.
Adams was one of the worst offenders, but most were guilty.
Set shots at goal were appalling and our forward line was broken.
McStay tried hard but missed a couple of gimmes.
The rot set in when Beau hit the post from 15m out.
We really missed crumbers around goal - Bobby was ill, but Ginni might have been worth a try.
In the last quarter Crisp tried to do too much a couple of times and got caught.
In general, there was too much cutesy stuff that fell apart under pressure.
Our last quarters seemed last night to have the subconscious effect of thinking we could still win, but after the first 2 goals, we were mostly crap.
Plenty of food for thought from the game, and it's better for it to happen now, rather than in September.

Spot on. It's better to happen now, rather than in September.
Coaches have a month to address and work on issues.
Don't want to be peaking now.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I think what is evident from watching a fair few Carlton games is that Curnow is officiated differently to other forwards. He gets a very very good run.

You can look at Kangas v Carlton, our game earlier this season, last night and there would be other games.

The Motlop / Matty Lloyd style free kick was embarrassing.

But we needed to be better - the fact that we couldn't exploit their lack of leg speed and unbalanced midfield was not good enough. We made an injury prone Jack Martin look like a world bearer. Yes he was number 1 draft pick but he is a once a month plays an ok game player.

We couldn't even apply decent pressure to expose their teams average foot skills. We allowed them to get away with easy chip kicks and changing angles. We didn't force them into enough pressure panic situations. That was also not good enough.

The only two players that showed the requisite amount of desire were Markov and Howe (last quarter).



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I'm not saying he isn't. Just that the frees were there. Maybe the discussion should be about highlighting those frees we didn't get. IQ getting checked by Cripps after he'd disposed the footy and was looking to run on and participate further is the only obvious one I can recall. But it's not a free that gets paid often either way.

 

[Bianconeri]

What is that based on?

Do you expect him to get 12 shots a game and convert them at 100% for the rest of the season?

So how will they pay him respect? A better opponent? Thats good news for Jamie then. For example the blues have McGovern to cover Jamie but no one for Howe.

I am more than happy if any other players want to put up their hands and score three goals in a fourth quarter. Please do.

That can be achieved by bringing in better forwards than Howe.

 

[Finnishpie]

we definitely can win against top teams launching from D50.
It’s a huge strength.
Our contested game is what needs to improve against them.

Yep, what I was arguing I guess.

 

[Big Bryza]

Coxy has played himself out of the team. You simply can't carry a big man who is adding nothing to the side.

We recruited Frampton to play KPD so it's time to bring him in and free up Moore to do what he does best. He can also chop out in the ruck when needed along with McStay.

Howey is the interesting one. Has been ok at best down back. Moved to a wing and then forward late with good effect. Was evident last night that our forwards are so slow to react to ball movement from further up the field. How come Weitering was able to read the ball but not our own players? Howe was proactive and is a beautiful kick so maybe we've found a late in the year positional switch for him.

We were genuinely bashed up around the footy last night. We looked flat across the entire team. To me that indicates we didn't pull up well from the Port game, which is understandable. Fly indicated that Port game was also the end of the a block of matches that we had specifically targeted, so maybe there was an emotional let down on top of that.

Either way, best off having a performance like this in Round 20. We must respond next week and then it's a huge fortnight with the Cats and Lions coming up.

 

[mumblingpie]

Hurts to get absolutely dominated by the scum, but we haven’t exactly been playing well lately and as the Season progresses teams are going to find ways to alter our game, Blues have found a major weakness but the positive is we have a few weeks up our sleeve to counter that, these shitty losses mean nothing the finals is where we will step up

 

[sr36]

Crazy question.

Can we play Howe around the grounds (not centre bounce) as a back up (just create a contest) with McStay chopping out at centre bounces?

Gives us a chance to bring more pace in.

You could, but simpler to just have Howe move forward when McStay rucks.

 

[ZEV]

Cripps only had 20 touches with Degoey playing on him.

Reckon Fly gives him the 5 votes?

 

[Big Bryza]

Yeah I’m not sure it will come with maturity.

His weapons are insane. I’m just not sure he’ll ever have a defensive bone in his body.
It’s on us as a club to make sure he doesn’t have to….

No, every player must buy in to the defensive side of the game, otherwise you may as well give it away.

Nick had moments last night that he would love again. He's far from soft though and i'm sure when it's his time to go next week, he'll crack in 100%.

He has so many credits in the bank this season, it's not even funny. If teams are just going to tag him through the midfield then i'd like to see us push him back, forward or even on to a wing.