Autopsy Round 3, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Western Bulldogs

[Astro7]

It's round 3 ffs...(port, gws, dogs, swans)

4+ years im afraid. Thats what it took Demons from there third year of that Neeld era. 4 years after that last year of finishing bottom 2 was when they finished 5th.

Given we are worse however 4 years would be that minimum. I expect its more of a 5-10 area.

I fear you are right! Hopefully sooner. going on the 12 year principle = 2030 (yikes!)
I meant the core list, for making finals eventually, will be there in 2+years. A newly evolved team standing on their own, with their own destiny in front of them and you'd think a new coach?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

It's round 3 ffs...(port, gws, dogs, swans)

I fear you are right! Hopefully sooner. going on the 12 year principle = 2030 (yikes!)
I meant the core list, for making finals eventually, will be there in 2+years. A newly evolved team standing on their own, with their own destiny in front of them and you'd think a new coach?

Round 3 is a bunch of crap however. Its 2 years + Round 3.

We cant ignore the previous 2 seasons in judging where our team is at. If every single season provides a 100% clean slate then no wonder everyone can smile on the bench while we are getting obliterated. Absolute no pressure or expectations if you can just click reset all the time and start the game again when it comes to expectations and performance requirements.

In relaity this is how Simmo and co feel. History provides no judgment. Its also why it provides no lessons too and we can keep doing the same shit over and over again I suppose

 

[Trouto]

My suspicion in the modern game is that coaches value players remaining in the play, rather than taking themselves and the chasing man out of the contest. That seems to be the ethos at our club. However, such an approach only really works if the player keeps themselves in the play - at the moment players sag off and we get neither the effect of the shepherd, nor the effort to run with the play and provide an additional option. At least that's how I'm seeing it.

agree - this has been the case for many years i rekon. A West Coast player did lay a shepherd on the weekend, and I remember thinking "wow" even the commentators were impressed!

 

[Trouto]

Don't underestimate the career Gaff that has had. It's not a matter of replacing the output he has now, the challenge in a rebuild is to find a player capable of a long term output over a career.

YEAH

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The same group of people who are like "Give Chesser a chance" are also the same group of people who seem to believe Gaff and Darling are the worst players to ever play football.

Gaff went to the WAFL and earnt his spot back. If people dont like it, take it up with the players who are not performing, not the guy who did

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Massively overselling it and trying to grab onto something that isnt there. He looks great but he needs to find a better level of fitness. A huge part of that is our unprofessionalism as a club however but its still something he needs to take his game to a higher level

I think the idea he will win the rising star for example isnt there. He is well behind Wardlaw and Sanders in terms of current impact. He has shown flashes but so far he just looks to have been Eagled and we have taken his game down a notch with our insanely mediocre training standards

I have no doubt he has people in his ear already telling him to do a JHF. I dont think he will be happy to run around averaging 12 possessions a game from now til the end of the year for example when those around him are outperforming him stat wise. He will probably see the battle ahead, realise he has alternatives to being a part of it and also wanna do a JHF and leave.

The final half of the season will be a big decider id say. If we are still at the level we are at now and he is still unable to get the ball I think we will be talking trade packages come September

I think half your post actually supported my argument.He gets Dusty touches not Sheezel touches.
It’s the quality of his possessions that is the point of difference.
You say he would leave; well that’s the point.He is a successful footballer, he wants ball in hand.Collingwood get the ball to Daicos’ as much as possible.Those type of players make things happen.
No he won’t suddenly make us get up and beat Sydney but standards will rise.Some players will rise with him some will drop away.

 

[Astro7]

Round 3 is a bunch of crap however. Its 2 years + Round 3.

We cant ignore the previous 2 seasons in judging where our team is at. If every single season provides a 100% clean slate then no wonder everyone can smile on the bench while we are getting obliterated. Absolute no pressure or expectations if you can just click reset all the time and start the game again when it comes to expectations and performance requirements.

In relaity this is how Simmo and co feel. History provides no judgment. Its also why it provides no lessons too and we can keep doing the same s**t over and over again I suppose

You also can't just flick a switch and have everything fall into place amazingly.
I don't wish to dig up the corpse from the covid season or the corpse from the 'injury list from hell' season, they were realities. But the reasons we are where we're at, are complex and recruitment and poor management are major factors.
I'm not sure what you propose we do from here? We are at ground zero, on the canvas, bottom of the ladder - there's nowhere else to go except up, eventually.
Of course there's going to be ugly football. It's in transition but has definitely changed from last season. We'll have a good game and everyone will be buoyant, then a bad game and the s** will fly! And so it goes...the passing of time.

I view this season as the beginning and 'try' to look at the small incremental improvements.
I view Simpson as a caretaker coach now, on numbered days. Sure, I get the argument for a new coach, but the timing has to be right and not sure how great a difference it would make at this stage?
Not sure what people expect with the available list and our injured - putting wins aside, there will be bad games and better games, progress and regress, depending on who we play and injuries.
We top up at msd and trade period (hopefully nail it) and roll again. Next season we jettison more senior players and probably our game has improved incrementally, we have more wins, we build on that. (hopefully retaining Harley)
Rinse and repeat...what more can be done? Probably a new coach before then.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I think half your post actually supported my argument.He gets Dusty touches not Sheezel touches.
It’s the quality of his possessions that is the point of difference.
You say he would leave; well that’s the point.He is a successful footballer, he wants ball in hand.Collingwood get the ball to Daicos’ as much as possible.Those type of players make things happen.
No he won’t suddenly make us get up and beat Sydney but standards will rise.Some players will rise with him some will drop away.

Yeah im just taking that "I dont think we will meet his standards" approach to the subject unfortunately. 12 possessions and 1 out in the goal square at FF doesnt scream to me us lifting to his standards. If anything Simmo is dragging him down to our standards

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You also can't just flick a switch and have everything fall into place amazingly.
I don't wish to dig up the corpse from the covid season or the corpse from the 'injury list from hell' season, they were realities. But the reasons we are where we're at, are complex and recruitment and poor management are major factors.
I'm not sure what you propose we do from here? We are at ground zero, on the canvas, bottom of the ladder - there's nowhere else to go except up, eventually.
Of course there's going to be ugly football. It's in transition but has definitely changed from last season. We'll have a good game and everyone will be buoyant, then a bad game and the s** will fly! And so it goes...the passing of time.

I view this season as the beginning and 'try' to look at the small incremental improvements.
I view Simpson as a caretaker coach now, on numbered days. Sure, I get the argument for a new coach, but the timing has to be right and not sure how great a difference it would make at this stage?
Not sure what people expect with the available list and our injured - putting wins aside, there will be bad games and better games, progress and regress, depending on who we play and injuries.
We top up at msd and trade period (hopefully nail it) and roll again. Next season we jettison more senior players and probably our game has improved incrementally, we have more wins, we build on that. (hopefully retaining Harley)
Rinse and repeat...what more can be done? Probably a new coach before then.

I propose we do more then meander along and pretend that changing the back staff deck chairs and a club song is all we need to do.

I view this season as a complete waste already. We absolutely butchered the list by going into the season with 0 wingers, and 1 solitary ruckmen we trust at AFL level.

Small incremental improvements are what we need when we are 10th. When we are the worst team in history we need to be making large leaps. 2024 is a done duck list improvement wise. Guys like Hough wont improve when he gets the ball and has no one to kick to, guys like Reid and Ginbey wont improve when we have no system from the centre square, guys like Long, Maric, Brockman wont improve when they have 40m helicopter floaters going directly over their heads because no one is quick enough or skillfiul enough to do any better. We then have Burgiel, Hewett already done for the year with injuries and can only be nursed through the rest of the season before hitting some straps in 2025 because of bad luck + absolutely horrendous player management for Hewett

For 2024, you cant rewind the clock im afraid and magically invent a 3 players out of thin air. Because of this conundrum we are stuck doing a few things

• Playing Gaff week in week out regardless of Simmo wanting a scapegoat to protect his ego
• Playing Barnett before he is ready.
• Understanding that because we dont have the structure that Hough, Reid, Ginbey, Long, Brockman and so forth will all have poorer seasons because of it, setting back their development a bit

Everyone here thinks its a 1 stop shop solution wise. Sacking Simmo is step 1 and 10% of what else is left for us to do. We have unheard of levels of work to do from here . Issue is its with a club that doesnt have the courage to do the work.

 

[SloppyJoe]

Is it me or does anyone think Gov is in AA form and a good chance to get it if he stays fit. He's been carrying our backline and you could say he may have stopped us from losing by a 100 points. His ball use has mostly been excellent and he's been killing contests more despite the lack of midfield pressure.

Yes he is in AA form but even if he keeps it up for 23 games I doubt he gets the nod in a team that will lose as many games and ship as many goals as we will this year.

That said, he's been AA before many times and has a profile over East, which are massive ticks.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Yes he is in AA form but even if he keeps it up for 23 games I doubt he gets the nod in a team that will lose as many games and ship as many goals as we will this year.

That said, he's been AA before many times and has a profile over East, which are massive ticks.

Doesnt matter if he is AA worthy. Its still all his fault we suck somehow

 

[eaglesfan84]

We have the most pessimistic fans in the entire league, yes we ******* suck but writing off players after 20 games is plain stupid.

These calls of us having no talent, or all our youngsters will never be more than solid are way too early.

Ginbey is in his second year, playing the hardest role in football and the majority of posters in here are saying he’ll never be anything more than solid.

Get a grip you soft utensils.

We need to get 40-50 games into all these youngsters, thats two seasons, we have literally 18 of them that need that...

 

[Cuzz09]

We need to get 40-50 games into all these youngsters, thats two seasons, we have literally 18 of them that need that...

Exactly.

If all these kids stick around to 50-75 games together they'll naturally get better (geez you'd hope)

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crimson King]

We need to get 40-50 games into all these youngsters, thats two seasons, we have literally 18 of them that need that...

Yep, Woosha always used to re-iterate this in the previous full rebuild we went through. Get the youth to 50-60 games as quickly as possible and then, watch them play more consistently.

However, not sure, if our player development is up to the mark this time around.

 

[dan78]

Pos - we are another week closer to getting rid of simpson
Neg - we still need to put up with simpson destroying the club

 

[eaglesfan84]

Yep, Woosha always used to re-iterate this in the previous full rebuild we went through. Get the youth to 50-60 games as quickly as possible and then, watch them play more consistently.

However, not sure, if our player development is up to the mark this time around.

We won't know until late next season if development is on track.

Will have to leave it to Pyke to assess and determine if it's on track, he's brought a team to a GF before so he knows what marks they should be hitting and when.

For me atm the biggest issue we're having is basic skills. They mentioned we're weeks behind other clubs in fitness stakes, but we didn't start training with balls until late in preseason also so we're probably weeks behind in that regard too, if we can execute basic skills better it will eliminate a bucket load of the issues we're having, most of which stem from turning the ball over.

 

[Westend]

We need to get 40-50 games into the young fellas like Reid, Ginbey, Hewett, Jameison, Long, Maric, Jilliams, Hough, Chesser, Brockman, Edwards x 2, Johnston, A Reid, Hall, Barnett, Burgiel, Culley that's a full side, that's a core group there.

Yeah but that’s the issue as well. Its not just about getting games into players it’s about development and that’s where the club falls down compared to other clubs atm .. the development of players

Look at petch Cole waterman they have played over 40 games have they improved ??? The answer is no they are the same players who have not improved as they imo are at the same stage of talent having played 20 games to 50

I am not seeing the development and improvement of players just getting games into them is not working imo

 

[ziad]

Yeah but that’s the issue as well. Its not just about getting games into players it’s about development and that’s where the club falls down compared to other clubs atm .. the development of players

Look at petch Cole waterman they have played over 40 games have they improved ??? The answer is no they are the same players who have not improved as they imo are at the same stage of talent having played 20 games to 50

I am not seeing the development and improvement of players just getting games into them is not working imo

Petch, Cole and Waterman we are absolute fringe players, on ability, and have clearly been from day on. They have never been part of our future. The are undevelopable as quality AFL players - we have a few more but are weeding them out slowly. Cole openly admitted this in a press conference last year. The list major list management failure is that we don't have quality in their age brackets.

 

[TOA.]

Ginbey being solid is not a insult to the guy. Solid is 200+ gamer. Maybe you are too much of a soft utensil on the idea that not every single player is a out and out superstar. The issue isnt with Ginbey being solid, its the fact we suck so badly we desperately need and want him to be more then he is. I have no issue with Ginbeys solidness

Its the Chesser, B.Williams, Maric, Edwards, JJ, Hough all taking a step back from the end of last year that is the major issue. Refusing to acknowledge it and ignoring this thread like its got a STD sums up how weak our fans truly are

Sadly I agree with this. The issue is that blokes like Ginbey, Chesser and others are just not projecting as great picks (to differing degrees). They may turn out to be solid enough AFL players but the reality is that the people who picked these guys (who are largely responsible for this mess) shouldnt have been in their jobs from 2021 or so. We just sat on our hands for far too long when it was clear the recruiting was not up to standard (we couldnt draft a midfielder to save ourselves from what 2016 to 2020?).

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

We need to get 40-50 games into all these youngsters, thats two seasons, we have literally 18 of them that need that...

No we dont. We need to get 40-50 games into youngsters who show the ability to play AFL football. Giving them 40-50 games because the are young just means you dont earn or work for anything. It creates the low standards we currently see today

Chesser doesnt deserve 40-50 games. He deserves to go into the WAFL until he shows he deserves 40-50 games

 

[Shueygod]

Allright I'm triggered and I'll behave.

Ginbey. He does not have a footy brain. He doesn't know where/ how to position himself and has terrible skills.

He may develop it and maybe its a 5 to 8 year plus proposition that'll bear fruit.

But you don't spend a top 10 pick on a project player.

Utter lunacy. He's projecting as a bust.

Plenty of top 10 picks have been spent on project players; Mac Andrew, Humphrey, Phillipou recent examples.

Who would you have gone instead of Ginbey and how many of his draft have actually performed better?

“Projecting as a bust” is an absolute shithouse call

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Plenty of top 10 picks have been spent on project players; Mac Andrew, Humphrey, Phillipou recent examples.

Who would you have gone instead of Ginbey and how many of his draft have actually performed better?

“Projecting as a bust” is an absolute shithouse call

Id have kept our pick 2 OR actually gotten fair value for it mainly

The grander issue is for pick 2 we should have had 4 picks in the top 30 for it. If we had 2 extra picks this year for example it would have let us cut deeper and not keep the list cloggers like Witherden and Rotham and instead been able to get say Lance Collard and Riley Hardman so instead of just being so hellbent on Ginbey working, we actually had more options up our sleeve

 

[Shueygod]

Id have kept our pick 2 OR actually gotten fair value for it mainly

The grander issue is for pick 2 we should have had 4 picks in the top 30 for it. If we had 2 extra picks this year for example it would have let us cut deeper and not keep the list cloggers like Witherden and Rotham and instead been able to get say Lance Collard and Riley Hardman so instead of just being so hellbent on Ginbey working, we actually had more options up our sleeve

And drafted who at pick 2? The glorified Jake Lloyd who would’ve gone home after a year?

Give me Ginbey and Hewett over Sheezel any day of the week.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

And drafted who at pick 2? The glorified Jake Lloyd who would’ve gone home after a year?

Give me Ginbey and Hewett over Sheezel any day of the week.

Trade Sheezel for pick 2 + 20 + 23 would have been a good deal to me

In both Rioli and pick 2 trades we got bent over a barrel. Cant deny that by insulting Sheezel either

 

[Astro7]

I propose we do more then meander along and pretend that changing the back staff deck chairs and a club song is all we need to do.

I view this season as a complete waste already. We absolutely butchered the list by going into the season with 0 wingers, and 1 solitary ruckmen we trust at AFL level.

Small incremental improvements are what we need when we are 10th. When we are the worst team in history we need to be making large leaps. 2024 is a done duck list improvement wise. Guys like Hough wont improve when he gets the ball and has no one to kick to, guys like Reid and Ginbey wont improve when we have no system from the centre square, guys like Long, Maric, Brockman wont improve when they have 40m helicopter floaters going directly over their heads because no one is quick enough or skillfiul enough to do any better. We then have Burgiel, Hewett already done for the year with injuries and can only be nursed through the rest of the season before hitting some straps in 2025 because of bad luck + absolutely horrendous player management for Hewett

For 2024, you cant rewind the clock im afraid and magically invent a 3 players out of thin air. Because of this conundrum we are stuck doing a few things

• Playing Gaff week in week out regardless of Simmo wanting a scapegoat to protect his ego
• Playing Barnett before he is ready.
• Understanding that because we dont have the structure that Hough, Reid, Ginbey, Long, Brockman and so forth will all have poorer seasons because of it, setting back their development a bit

Everyone here thinks its a 1 stop shop solution wise. Sacking Simmo is step 1 and 10% of what else is left for us to do. We have unheard of levels of work to do from here . Issue is its with a club that doesnt have the courage to do the work.

Ok, enjoy your footy!