Injury SACK DOCTORS 1 - CTE

[morell]

Who says? You? Bravey? The Tuck Shop Ladies? The outrage brigade? FFS this is not like the old days where players got repeated concussions. This is at worst a failure in process. Nothing more. The club has way worse issues than this, namely the fukwits running it. The Doctor will probably get the arse and the club a fine. Calls for points losses and other stuff being taken away from us, some by our so called supporters, is *ingg bonkers. Outside the crappy football media like SEN who have to fill content and Raptalia's favourite publication, this is barely a story. Pant Pissers gonna pant piss I guess, but perspective is a valuable commodity.

We'll have to see, but more than likely, the AFL.

When we're talking about players health and welfare process and governance is really important.

We haven't erroneously gone around a procurement process and ordered too many schnitzels here. Or not gotten a font change on a template approved. We have quite literally put a players long term health at risk.

Its been well documented that it's not the one off concussions that has the biggest impact on CTE, it's when it's repeated in quick succession. We exposed Allir to that risk. We don't yet know if he suffered more damage. Even slight knocks or jolts are serious after you have gotten concussion.

Its deplorable and accountabilly for the decision to not assess Aliir must be had.

I agree that points sanctions are too far. A heavy fine and individual accountability for the doctor would be what I would do.

 

[edgie]

I wouldn't worry about players still having headaches. We know it's in the culture of this club to celebrate showdown losses with booze and bags, hey wattsy. Probably just a hangover.

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

 

[bomberclifford]

Butters and Jonas head clash

"...the AFL has come a long way even since last year, when it cleared the Power over the quick return to play of Tom Jonas and Zak Butters after a collision."

The league ruled in that case the Power had no case to answer but as the AFL cracks down on concussion management it believed Fisher should have exercised caution."

 

[bomberclifford]

Hartlett elbow to head in marking contest

Is this the one we got fined for?

Wines this year head into ground

What penalty did we get for this one? Was there any? Any investigation?

 

[bomberclifford]

To be clear, I'm not saying the above incidents needed to result in confirmed concussion results, but we need to follow protocol and at least assess them properly.

Apart from Aliir on Saturday night, and the earliest one with Hartlett, we have followed protocol.

 

[Jimmy95]

The pile on will end in a day or two when the goldfish find a new event to be outraged at.

Not surprised to see the usual crowd of so called port supporters going after the club yet again.

Yes it was a bad mistake and punishment will come but some of the calls from our own supporters (the usual ones) for the club to essentially be fired off into the sun is nothing short of ridiculous.

The usual crew here are only happy when they can lay boot into the club they apparently support.

 

[TeeKray]

The Crows camp - fully endorsed by current board member Mark Ricciuto

Mark Ricciuto

Age

49

Ht

184cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

8.3

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

- was way worse than this from a player welfare perspective IMO.

 

[ClintEastwood]

the goldfish find a new event to be outraged at.

So much this.

 

[rogerjames]

It is interesting looking back on previous incidents and comparing them to this one, i reckon there have been plenty as bad as this where there has been no subbing off due to concussion or even a test done, and barely a word spoken about it in the media. That collision that Rozee had with Murphy against the Dees was just as bad and yet that was never spoken about. Perhaps there weren't two Crows cheerleaders in Roo and Dunstall in the commentary box hell bent on putting this one on the agenda. And then everyone runs with it like sheep, including our own supporters who seem very quick to hang our club doctor out to dry without knowing all the facts and simply relying on vision and what is being said in the media.

I'm obviously no concussion expert but just because a collision looks bad surely that doesn't mean that there is a concussion or even a need for a concussion test. Head trauma is obviously very serious but i feel like this particular incident is being unfairly singled out. Yeah it is definitely possible the Doctor has made a mistake here but we don't know this for certain.

How many times have we seen Dangerfield get smashed in a contest and drop like he's been shot only to miraculously recover, or Selwood come off the ground with blood pissing out of his skull and he s simply patched up and sent back out there, and yet they talk about those guys as heroes for being super tough yet this incident is the most scrutinized collision from the general footy public i can think of.

Agree, the commentating & reporting of this collision is so different to the other examples. Having Roo & his great mate Dunstall in the commentary team is a massive conflict of interest & its standard MO for Roo to inflame this. He uses every opportunity to discredit us. The club should complain & get him kicked off commentating our games. It's a bloody disgrace. I'm sick & tired of commentators barracking for one team when their job is to commentate impartially not barrack.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Why does Mark Fisher still have a job?

 

[bomberclifford]

Nah but according to the words of CD yesterday they both still had their headaches.

Piss poor optics from a loser club.

Next man up.

... and both still 'passed' their concussion tests.

They've been put into concussion protocols either because the AFL insisted on it, or they're being overly cautious to placate the AFL in an attempt to minimise the penalty.

Based on the results of their concussion tests (as reported) if Aliir had been kept on the bench for another 10mins and then sent on, he'd probably be ruled fit to play against Geelong and there'd be a lot less froth and bother about the whole thing.


Did we **** up? Absolutely.
Should we be penalised? Yes, with out doubt.
Is this being blown out of proportion? My sense is yes, it is. In a huge way.

With regards to Jones, what's been reported is that he was given a HIA on the bench, then a SCAT5 test in the rooms, and was then subbed out as a result. It was always on the cards that he'd be missing the Geelong game due to concussion protocols, regardless of the 'migraine' classification.

 

[Del165198]

Where was the "Abundance of caution" when aliir got sent back out, at the point he's most likely to do more damage?

 

[rogerjames]

I wonder if these crows supporters showing concern for our players had the same concern when their players were tormented in the off season camp.

Not from the many Crows supporters I spoke too. Didn't want to engage at all in any conversation about it. Standard pissant Crows supporter reaction. What shocks me is that they are all so alike. They're not really football supporters, they're just Crows supporters with no objectivity at all. It's just so boring talking football with them.

 

[bomberclifford]

Why does Mark Fisher still have a job?

To be honest, he probably doesn't.

He'll fall on his sword or we'll sacrifice him. Either way I would be surprised if he's still here come the weekend.

The question is, what involvement did Bench Daddy have in this?

 

[Ports1870]

To be honest, he probably doesn't.

He'll fall on his sword or we'll sacrifice him. Either way I would be surprised if he's still here come the weekend.

The question is, what involvement did Bench Daddy have in this?

He’s a father figure to the boys apparently.

What type of father would want his son back on the field after a hit like that?

 

[Windy Cindy]

Port Adelaide is set to cop a “significant fine” from the AFL, according to Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph, amid fierce reaction from the football community over the post-collision treatment of Aliir Aliir and Lachie Jones.

And while there are calls for the sanction to be in excess of $100,000, dual premiership Kangaroo David King believes clubs that breach concussion protocols should also be punished with suspended premiership points or draft picks.

what a flog king is.

 

[morell]

"...the AFL has come a long way even since last year, when it cleared the Power over the quick return to play of Tom Jonas and Zak Butters after a collision."

The league ruled in that case the Power had no case to answer but as the AFL cracks down on concussion management it believed Fisher should have exercised caution."

So one where he was cautioned (Jonas and Butters). One where we were fined (Hartlett). One where we are likely going to get another hefty fine (Aliir).

The Wines one was luck/oversight.

What more evidence do you need? He should be fired

Agree some of the other penalties are going overboard though

 

[chiwigi]

Hey everyone that does this!

Port have done it now so we can go hard, let this be a warning to all the others that do this all the time,
regards

V/AFL.

 

[bomberclifford]

So one we he was cautioned (Jonas and Butters). One where we were fined (Hartlett). One where we are likely going to get another hefty fine (Aliir).

The Wines one was luck.

What more evidence do you need?

So two incidents prior to this one, not 'three or four'.

First one was before the protocols were tightened and the second one there was no case to answer. This third one will likely be the end of his association with the club.

You still haven't even explained the Wines thing. What game was this from and what is the incident you're talking about?

Let's just talk facts instead of making shit up to fuel the outrage.

 

[MrMeaner]

Two things I think are true about this incident: 1) it is likely the club ****ed this up; and 2) opposition supporters are mostly being trollingly pious about this in a way that they would not be if it was their team.

 

[bomberclifford]

The system is built to allow clubs in a professional, high-performance sport, to employ a Doctor to make real-time assessments on players health/fitness on whether they can continue playing or not.

The guidelines provide a protocol to follow and give the Doctor the responsibility to make the call, with a back up of having the ARC video guy able to make assessments on cases that fall into the 'we think this should be checked/tested' category.

The checking protocol (as I understand it) is:

HIA (Head Injury Assessment) which is usually done on the bench using a mix of observation of the player and the video footage along with communication with the player.

SCAT5 Test which is based on measuring against individual benchmarks for each payer that are recorded at the beginning of each season. This requires the player to be out of play for 20mins and does not preclude the player from going back on the field if they 'pass' the test.

From what I can tell based on the reporting so far...

Jones
During the game: HIA > SCAT5 > Subbed out
Post game: SCAT5 passed, put into concussion protocols anyway

Aliir
During the game: HIA > cleared to play within ~5mins
Post game: SCAT5 passed, put into concussion protocols anyway

It's the 'within ~5mins' that's the problem and where we ****ed up. More time on the bench provides more time to observe the player and make a better assessment. This may have resulted in sending Aliir to have a SCAT5 test, or may also have confirmed the Doctor's belief that he was ok to continue playing.

It stands to reason that in a competitive sport that the assessments by a club linked Doctor are going to err on the side of 'winning' rather than 'caution', same as for other types of injuries. This applies to all clubs, not just ours.

This incident will trigger the AFL to put their hands in their pockets and provide an independent Doctor for all games to ratify or dispute any assessments of player injuries, not just concussion. This is a good thing and while it will piss the AFL off to have their hand forced, it's ultimately going to be better for players moving forward.

 

[morell]

So two incidents prior to this one, not 'three or four'.

First one was before the protocols were tightened and the second one there was no case to answer. This third one will likely be the end of his association with the club.

You still haven't even explained the Wines thing. What game was this from and what is the incident you're talking about?

Let's just talk facts instead of making s**t up to fuel the outrage.

No, there are three or four, just not three or four that fit within your quite narrow scope for not following protocol. They fit in my scope hence why I think he should be sacked.

RE Wines. He was tackled to the ground on the boundary line at the Marvel and clearly hit his head. He got up and was dazed and a bit wobbly. Needed to be assessed and was not. It was shown by Damien Barrett as part of the footy classified segment from memory

 

[bomberclifford]

They fit in my scope

...and there we have it.

 

[davesnothere]

If it was his first * up ... Written warning

But it's not. Its like his third or fourth. Most disciplinary procedures in HR world have guidance on this when the performance has the same theme or type eg start with verbal, then written, then final, then termination.

If we are in any way a football club that has accountability as part of our culture, he needs to be fired.

Last **** up was investigated and found to be all clear. That being the case simply doesn’t count.

Neither player here has concussion. ( I know but that’s the line )

My personal view is Ken was responsible for those players going back on the ground and a board meeting should have been called Monday and Ken out of a job today.


The AFL will change the process rather than dish out meaning punishment this time around.

The players are only being rested though an abundance of caution.

 

[Expat power]

this is barely a story.

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