Certified Legendary Thread Sack Hinkley 13 - Another Crack At This

[Us against the rest]

No you didn't otherwise you wouldn't still be here.

Of course after 40 years it's not easy but I don't get upset when we lose any more, I expect failure in finals and don't expect any accountability from the coach, players or club.

Once if Port were playing that was the weekend done but now it's family first.

The club has decided to move away from the high standards it once endeavored to achieve, so I have to accept it ATM and also lower my expectations until change actually takes place.

 

[Us against the rest]

It also takes any urgency out of the succession plan: handshake, secret clause, or otherwise.

Jack Cahill got pushed because by a quirk of fate, all three of Choco’s former VFL clubs were said to be in the market for a new head coach at the end of 1998 (Shaw was on thin ice at Collingwood, Northey was gone at Brisbane, Sheedy was thought to be stale at Essendon and potentially keen to jump to a side-eyeing Richmond before he was pushed).

Collingwood faced a similar scenario with Malthouse and Nathan Buckley’s itchy feet.

If Carr’s content to stay rooted in Adelaide regardless, why not leave things as they are?

We just finished 2nd and made a Prelim!!!1

Very good point, it seems unless there is a major clean out off field things will be steady as she goes, we won't even notice, Carr is in the box already and we have some sort of entertainment manager down on the boundary, like Thunder Power.

 

[PowerBaz]

Ken has known about the Carr stuff going back to when he signed his last extension in August of 2023.

So come out with it in March 2025. Club needs to grow a pair. Stop sitting on the fence.

 

[Chewy316]

It well could be that Josh is quite content in his role ATM. He needs to be here in SA as we know and possibly his job ATM is demanding enough and fits in well with his personal issues at home.

Maybe he doesn't want to be the head potato, who knows.

I know that Josh's family circumstances have been mentioned as reason for why he has stayed in Adelaide, but I also think he wouldn't have applied for the Richmond job if it wasn't a malleable situation either.

He certainly wants to be a senior coach in the AFL.

And you know he had the Richmond job how? So they were going to appoint an unproven coach without a process? Sure ok.
And he was a top candidate for the WC job? With due respect that’s all rumours until they’re not. I doubt he has the leverage you think he has. You really think they’ve gone into a formal succession plan with a time line when they sprout how great Hinkley’s H&A record is, and how many top 4 placings he’s had recently and how top 8 is the pass mark? That would require them to say we think Ken has done a great job up until now but we believe Josh, the unproven senior afl coach, will take them the next two steps (because he has our midfield humming in finals)…

Brendon Gale was telling plenty of people at the time (including people I know) when Carr withdrew his candidacy that he was top of their shortlist and they were preparing to offer him the job. Carr went from being interested in the Richmond job to no longer being interested in any senior coaching roles outside of Port Adelaide. Even the most sceptical of people can see that something has happened to trigger such a change.

And the WC stuff is not a rumour either (that info came from a player agent with no vested interest in Carr) - but you're welcome to think it is as such.

Port are well aware that they can't keep going on with Ken forever, though I'm sure there are some at the Club who would want that. They haven't exactly made it a secret that Carr is going to be the next coach either - multiple members of the media have said as such. And it's fine to be sceptical and not believe anything about the coaching situation until an official media statement is released from the Club regarding a succession plan. Do I think that'll happen? I think it's more likely than not that will happen before the conclusion of Ken's current contract.

I have no idea whether or not Carr will lead the Club to a flag. But I know Ken won't, and that's enough at this point from my perspective to back Josh in.

So come out with it in March 2025. Club needs to grow a pair. Stop sitting on the fence.

They should come out with it before the AGM if they're truly serious. Don't let it linger. Let the story go through the media in December and by the time the players return from Xmas break the focus can be fully on footy for the entire footy department.

I'd be curious to know if Cripps and co are currently speaking to Carr re list building and future targets etc. Or if we are still looking to build solely off Kens gameplan.

Don't think Carr is speaking to Cripps directly - I think CD may have actually asked him a few questions about certain players (and player archetypes) he likes over the last calendar year, but the planning and moves made this off-season were taken with a long term view in mind rather than looking at short term fixes for Ken.

 

[VineValerian]

They're always moving the goal posts, with regard to expectations. I'm sure Koch said several years ago (2019?) that if we're not playing for premierships, then why are we playing (or words to that effect) - he's certainly playing a different tune now!!!

If we fail again next year, the bar will be lowered to "we're successful if we win more games in home and away than we lose - even if we don't make finals"

 

[rogerjames]

Very good point, it seems unless there is a major clean out off field things will be steady as she goes, we won't even notice, Carr is in the box already and we have some sort of entertainment manager down on the boundary, like Thunder Power.

Don't dis Special K, he likes to wave his arms around

 

[El_Scorcho]

They should come out with it before the AGM if they're truly serious. Don't let it linger. Let the story go through the media in December and by the time the players return from Xmas break the focus can be fully on footy for the entire footy department.

This is what they should do (aside from just immediately sacking him). The issue will be that it'll have to be done against Hinkley's will and if it is, we'll see his media mouthpieces discussing how unjust it all is and how he should be able to earn the right to continue etc. I don't think we'll do it against Hinkley's will regardless because the club is too weak, and he'll never okay it. He'll cling on until the bitter end.

What we'll do instead is have another 2023esque dance where we're sitting inside the 8 and Gerard Whateley and Caro Wilson start demanding an extension.

Koch et al need to hold firm for the entire season to let Hinkley's contract run out. They only need 1 moment of weakness to extend him.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Of course after 40 years it's not easy but I don't get upset when we lose any more, I expect failure in finals and don't expect any accountability from the coach, players or club.

Once if Port were playing that was the weekend done but now it's family first.

The club has decided to move away from the high standards it once endeavored to achieve, so I have to accept it ATM and also lower my expectations until change actually takes place.

I'm here as well. I'm still a Port supporter, I attended most games this year. But I don't care if we lose, ultimately wins and losses don't matter at all. I enjoyed the Hawthorn win as an attendee but I felt absolutely nothing as we got smashed by Sydney and Geelong.

The only pang of hurt came in the week following the PF when Hinkley wasn't sacked, when it became obvious we were going to have him for another season.

 

[El_Scorcho]

A 14 goal QF loss and a 12 goal PF loss - both in Adelaide, should be enough to warrant a dismissal.

It's like we're beyond the end of normal space and time where the laws of physics don't really apply.

Of course, you wouldn't normally sack a coach following a prelim appearance, but you wouldn't normally be 1-5 and -259 over a stretch of 6 finals while also being the clearcut worst 10+ season coach in the history of the league.

Normal decision making doesn't apply because he should have already been sacked in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024. Nothing compares in the history of major professional sport.

 

[El_Scorcho]

As per the reply I read just before from Richardson - (the one on this page).

‘Membership is up’….. that’s all they care about,

It's also a total lie.

Membership is up 23000 since 2014. We're averaging 7000 less to home games.

They're handing out "memberships" for attending 1 game. They probably count that single game ticket as "membership revenue". They gave Finbarr a membership after offering him a free membership via email and then simply sending him one when he didn't reply.

For the flimsiest metric imaginable to be what they're hanging their hats on, boy oh boy it must be Port in the Koch era.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

He cherrypicks the data to suit his agenda like many people do

When Koch says he looks at the data it is like him, a nothing statement that is said to lead fans to believe that he is doing a great job with the data.

David is hoping that people think that he looks at the data and is making the best decisions possible while in reality, its more like he's looking at membership data or I look at the data but not the data related to finals, only the minor round data.

 

[El_Scorcho]

When Koch says he looks at the data it is like him, a nothing statement that is said to lead fans to believe that he is doing a great job with the data.

David is hoping that people think that he looks at the data and is making the best decisions possible while in reality, its more like he's looking at membership data or I look at the data but not the data related to finals, only the minor round data.

Yep, it's another "actually i'm smarter than you idiot supporters" moment. The club have had plenty of them over the last decade, whether it's Dixon, Richardson or Koch.

 

[tribey]

Yep, it's another "actually i'm smarter than you idiot supporters" moment. The club have had plenty of them over the last decade, whether it's Dixon, Richardson or Koch.

Cripps, “we turned Wingard into Rozee and Butters”

 

[Willsy10]

It's also a total lie.

Membership is up 23000 since 2014. We're averaging 7000 less to home games.

They're handing out "memberships" for attending 1 game. They probably count that single game ticket as "membership revenue". They gave Finbarr a membership after offering him a free membership via email and then simply sending him one when he didn't reply.

For the flimsiest metric imaginable to be what they're hanging their hats on, boy oh boy it must be Port in the Koch era.

There was definitely a shiny new toy element to Adelaide Oval in 2014. Even the crows who were dogshit that year had bumper crowds, roughly 7k more than their average this year despite around 20k less in members.

People just had to be there in 2014, the number of no shows would've been far less than any other season. And now people are buying memberships now but can't be bothered turning up.

I don't think what we are doing is any different to any other club as far as fudging membership numbers. Every club seems to be getting record membership numbers lately but the crowds don't seem to be much different.

As long as membership revenue is growing the number of members is largely irrelevant isn't it?

 

[Chewy316]

This is what they should do (aside from just immediately sacking him). The issue will be that it'll have to be done against Hinkley's will and if it is, we'll see his media mouthpieces discussing how unjust it all is and how he should be able to earn the right to continue etc. I don't think we'll do it against Hinkley's will regardless because the club is too weak, and he'll never okay it. He'll cling on until the bitter end.

What we'll do instead is have another 2023esque dance where we're sitting inside the 8 and Gerard Whateley and Caro Wilson start demanding an extension.

Koch et al need to hold firm for the entire season to let Hinkley's contract run out. They only need 1 moment of weakness to extend him.

The Club have internally discussed amongst themselves that they don't want next season to be a repeat of the drama-filled 2023 regarding Ken's contract.

What comes of that I'm not sure.

If there is a succession plan in place without a start date, I think it would be obvious to all parties given when said plan was orchestrated (August 2023) that the rollover to Carr was to occur in 12 months time.

I guess we will know soon enough as to the plan going forward. They're setting themselves up for a mess of their own making if they don't sort it out prior to the season starting.

 

[Steve Dore]

The Club have internally discussed amongst themselves that they don't want next season to be a repeat of the drama-filled 2023 regarding Ken's contract.

....

So rather than wait until August they'll announce Daddy Donuts' contract extension earlier. I've posted previously that I expect Koch too announce Hinkley's next contract extension during our midseason bye at the latest.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The Club have internally discussed amongst themselves that they don't want next season to be a repeat of the drama-filled 2023 regarding Ken's contract.

What comes of that I'm not sure.

If there is a succession plan in place without a start date, I think it would be obvious to all parties given when said plan was orchestrated (August 2023) that the rollover to Carr was to occur in 12 months time.

I guess we will know soon enough as to the plan going forward. They're setting themselves up for a mess of their own making if they don't sort it out prior to the season starting.

It's going to be so much worse than 2023, I hope people will step up and help to make it worse.

Sack Hinkley banner will be out round 1. I'd hope we can get some others to step up and make banners as well. Whether they say something softer like "Hinkley Out", "Time for a change" etc

If we could emulate the Arsenal Wenger Out campaign i'd be over the moon.

 

[Chewy316]

So rather than wait until August they'll announce Daddy Donuts' contract extension earlier. I've posted previously that I expect Koch too announce Hinkley's next contract extension during our midseason bye at the latest.

The odds of that happening are remote irrespective of what the general consensus is around Koch's trigger happy tendencies.

It's going to be so much worse than 2023, I hope people will step up and help to make it worse.

Sack Hinkley banner will be out round 1. I'd hope we can get some others to step up and make banners as well. Whether they say something softer like "Hinkley Out", "Time for a change" etc

If we could emulate the Arsenal Wenger Out campaign i'd be over the moon.

All of that pressure can be deflated by announcing a succession plan before the start of the season.

 

[El_Scorcho]

There was definitely a shiny new toy element to Adelaide Oval in 2014. Even the crows who were dogshit that year had bumper crowds, roughly 7k more than their average this year despite around 20k less in members.

People just had to be there in 2014, the number of no shows would've been far less than any other season. And now people are buying memberships now but can't be bothered turning up.

We also weren't handing out 1 game memberships like confetti in 2014. We certainly weren't giving free memberships to people who didn't ask for them as we do now.

We had higher attendance averages in 2016, 2017 and 2018 than we did in 2023 or 2024.

I don't think what we are doing is any different to any other club as far as fudging membership numbers. Every club seems to be getting record membership numbers lately but the crowds don't seem to be much different.

Oh absolutely, it's AFL driven across the board fudging numbers to attract sponsors. But even on the fudged numbers, we were 7th on the membership ladder in 2014 and now we're 10th.

As long as membership revenue is growing the number of members is largely irrelevant isn't it?

Is it growing? In line with inflation? In line with other clubs? In 2014 those 48,000 members were mostly 11 game members with some 3 game memberships. What's the breakdown now?

I'd suggest we'll never know because the club won't tell us. RussellEbertHandball may be able to help here but my understanding is that we're always super opaque in relation to membership revenue.

 

[El_Scorcho]

All of that pressure can be deflated by announcing a succession plan before the start of the season.

Absolutely. I'll leave the banner at home if i've got a hard end date.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I'd suggest we'll never know because the club won't tell us. RussellEbertHandball may be able to help here but my understanding is that we're always super opaque in relation to membership revenue.

Yeah we have always ie pre Koch been opaque in putting the membership revenue figure into our financials.

We have stated them in announcements and Koch has done power point slides with the info but in the official accounts we always have membership revenue + something else.

We got a bit better in the 2023 accounts with this disclosure at Note 3 Revenues

Revenue .........................................................................2023 $.............. 2022$
Consumer - Membership, Ticketing, Attendance & Retail $18,954,025 $17,272,079

For over a decade we used to just lump it all together as per the following in 2022 accounts.

Revenue .............................................2022 $............ 2021$
Revenue from Football Operations $29,017,474 $25,664,330

As you can see from the adjusted 2022 comparison in 2023 accounts, compared to what was published in the 2022 accounts, there were items of revenue totalling $11.745mil lumped in with Consumer - Membership, Ticketing, Attendance & Retail.

From the notes I took at the 2023 AGM

Official Club Stuff - 2023 AGM - held on Friday 9th Feb 2024

Some notes I took from the AGM on the shitty 3 pages of financials they hand out. A star means from what I wrote down, a non star line is either from a bit of digging around or just my comment. * Warren has already been appointed to Football Strategic Committee and Aber to the Facilities...

www.bigfooty.com

* Core business revenue was up $2.8m on 2022 and $7.2m on 2021.

*Membership and ticketing up $1.3m to $16.5m
*Commercial partnerships.. up $1.7m to $15.7m
*Retail Merchandise .......... up $0.6m to $2.65m Koch said this is top 4, but I reckon its top 4 when you take out the premiership side.
There is another $700k that meets the definition of core business revenue that Koch didn't put up on his slide.

 

[johnnysix]

I'm here as well. I'm still a Port supporter, I attended most games this year. But I don't care if we lose, ultimately wins and losses don't matter at all. I enjoyed the Hawthorn win as an attendee but I felt absolutely nothing as we got smashed by Sydney and Geelong.

The only pang of hurt came in the week following the PF when Hinkley wasn't sacked, when it became obvious we were going to have him for another season.

The cynic in me says this is right where they want you. Care enough to attend and buy merch, not enough to hold them to account. The perfect consumer (not a dig at YOU mate, just the situation).

 

[Anyonebutken]

I'm just guessing but I don't think the club will let ken coach the season with speculation about his future hanging over his head. They love him too much. If as suggested 2025 is his last season they will annouce it before the season starts.
Maybe at the agm or the season launch before round 1.

 

[Us against the rest]

I'm just guessing but I don't think the club will let ken coach the season with speculation about his future hanging over his head. They love him too much. If as suggested 2025 is his last season they will annouce it before the season starts.
Maybe at the agm or the season launch before round 1.

We can only hope but knowing how cunning Hinkley is, he will want to nut out an extension so he can concentrate on making the finals.

Poor Kenny shouldn't have to coach under all that pressure of not knowing if he has a job the following year.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The cynic in me says this is right where they want you. Care enough to attend and buy merch, not enough to hold them to account. The perfect consumer (not a dig at YOU mate, just the situation).

Oh i'm on a multi year merch ban (aside from heritage stuff) and i've repeatedly taken a "Sack Hinkley" banner to games.

I'd easily spend double the amount on the club I am now if I was engaged. I think a lot of people here would be the same.

But I agree with your general point, they want theatregoers who don't particularly care and just see the footy as a nice thing to do with the family.