No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[plugger66]

The question is would Lyon be coaching in the afl now if he wanted to. I’d say yes for sure so clubs still rate him. Anyway who knows what’s going on.

 

[George]

You have made no sense just then.

2019 is his most recent history.

I literally just outlined what happened.

It would be the equivalent to have losing Marshall King Membrey Howard Steele for lengths of time that also overlapped.

Prior to that. 7-5 bested 4 sides in the 8 above them.

Since then, he has missed 1 shortened season.

1 season where week by week we didn’t even know if we had fans.

1 genuine season were footy was back to normal.

Yet - had 4 clubs at a minimum who all wanted to have a look at him in the last 12 months.

We know he had the Carlton job until the board got scared and over ruled sayers.

North had him as target 2 behind Clarko

Essendon desperately wanted him involved and were happy to bring him on half way through their “process”

Collingwood chased him hard.

He ruled himself out of the Pies and Dons searches.

Wanted the Carlton job and got burnt.

But only st Kilda could run such a poor process that could possibly end up with Ross the boss

I think I made sense. In the argument of which sample to choose from, 2011 or 2019, I would choose 2019. I still think both samples are shit though, primarily because he hasn't coached at any level in three years and it was 7 years ago when he last had a successful year. The game has changed since then so I feel there's plenty to worry about when it comes to appointing Ross, too many questions that can only get answered watching us play. That worries me. At least if we went after an assistant from an elite program there would be less concern over implementing a present day gameplan. And if that person was ruthless and came from a winning background, I think he could do all the things Ross could and probably more.

 

[bird_man]

I'd only take notice of recent history with Lyon if that's the guy I wanted to have appointed, in all honesty what he did in 2009 and 2019 is irrelevant, but surely one would consider the more recent evidence if he was the guy we would be looking at. I think him also being out of the game three years doesn't help, and to me there's just too many questions left unanswered.

So only focusing on the years he coached while Freo were rebuilding?

Hardly seems fair to me

 

[BrutThough]

I am happy with Ross to come on as a mentor or a short term fix. To me he's most definitely not a long term solution and we need to develop guys underneath him if he is the one we are going to make senior coach in a fortnight.

I'm just not big on succession plans and guaranteeing someone a head coaching job years out. It worked particularly well with Longmire but he was also working under Roos for a while and has been in the frame for multiple senior coaching jobs. Most have not ended well.

 

[bird_man]

I think I made sense. In the argument of which sample to choose from, 2011 or 2019, I would choose 2019. I still think both samples are s**t though, primarily because he hasn't coached at any level in three years and it was 7 years ago when he last had a successful year. The game has changed since then so I feel there's plenty to worry about when it comes to appointing Ross, too many questions that can only get answered watching us play. That worries me. At least if we went after an assistant from an elite program there would be less concern over implementing a present day gameplan. And if that person was ruthless and came from a winning background, I think he could do all the things Ross could and probably more.

Imagine if Brisbane had the same thought process when choosing their next coach in the late 90's...

 

[triggering bro]

Imo if we are not careful the same could happen again. Unfortunately for Ross his teams have not shown an ability, at this stage, to continually reinvigorate the list and keep strong.
His teams have worked themselves to the bone and fallen off a cliff. I don't want that.
We've talked ad nauseum about this.
I reckon if I went through the posts over the years there will be a number of posters that acknowledge his faults and the consequences of those. I want to know what we are putting in place to make sure those faults don't resurface.
And if they do, do those in charge in the Football Department have the balls to go against him.

And not directed at you but this suggestion that he needs an Offensive Coordinator to help him. Whoever it is best be strong willed. It can't be Roo or BJ or one of the old boys.

Whilst I can see your concern I think we fell off a cliff more so because of poor recruiting the previous decade & the introduction of the new teams meant it was difficult to bring in talent.

If he remained at Freo who’s to say they wouldnt have rebounded the same way they have under Longmuir? Blokes like Cerong & Brayshaw were recruited under RTB.

 

[George]

I think you need to look at his record over his entire coaching career. It’s not fair to cherry pick his good or bad years. His body of work suggests he’s a very good coach that was unlucky to miss a couple of flags.

He had success playing a style of football that is outdated. There's nothing available that suggests he would have success with present day strategy. If he was an assistant somewhere then I think it would hold a mountain of weight, but he wasn't coaching at any level.

 

[bird_man]

I'm just not big on succession plans and guaranteeing someone a head coaching job years out. It worked particularly well with Longmire but he was also working under Roos for a while and has been in the frame for multiple senior coaching jobs. Most have not ended well.

How many other times has it happened?

The two most recent ones I can think of have both ended in premierships

 

[George]

Imagine if Brisbane had the same thought process when choosing their next coach in the late 90's...

Leigh Matthews was a premiership winning coach before he came to Brisbane.

 

[lewdogs]

I am happy with Ross to come on as a mentor or a short term fix. To me he's most definitely not a long term solution and we need to develop guys underneath him if he is the one we are going to make senior coach in a fortnight.

Mate if he's coming back it won't be as a mentor it will be as the head honcho. He is 55 and one of the most successful coaches of recent times, the majority of his coaching seasons have been successful and he will absolutely want to get a flag. It will be on a long term deal I would think.

 

[George]

So only focusing on the years he coached while Freo were rebuilding?

Hardly seems fair to me

I'm not focusing on any of it, I think it's all irrelevant. I was answering a question as to which I'd prefer to look at and which holds more weight.

The bigger issue is that he hasn't coached at any level in three years and his success came playing a style that's outdated.

 

[plugger66]

He had success playing a style of football that is outdated. There's nothing available that suggests he would have success with present day strategy. If he was an assistant somewhere then I think it would hold a mountain of weight, but he wasn't coaching at any level.

There is nothing to say he will play that style of footy. The club would be asking those question. Lyon seems like he has a great footy brain so I would think he would adapt to a different game plan.

 

[Saint Kidding]

I still think it could be Buckley.

Consider Collingwood before Buckley V Collingwood post Buckley.

My vote is "*uck No"!

 

[George]

Mate if he's coming back it won't be as a mentor it will be as the head honcho. He is 55 and one of the most successful coaches of recent times, the majority of his coaching seasons have been successful and he will absolutely want to get a flag. It will be on a long term deal I would think.

Then I think we are making a mistake if there's no development coming up underneath him. It's just an opinion.

 

[triggering bro]

He had success playing a style of football that is outdated. There's nothing available that suggests he would have success with present day strategy. If he was an assistant somewhere then I think it would hold a mountain of weight, but he wasn't coaching at any level.

I don’t think we know if his style is outdated TBH. I also think he’s smart enough to adapt. I don’t think we’ll see the exact same match strategies. But I do think we’ll see the same standards & accountability. We assume his coaching became outdated because Freo fell down the ladder. Maybe their list was on the decline?

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Hope they went hard on Cripps. Universally respected across the league.

Respected sure ..... but trying to remember the last time Port won a premeirship?

Pretty sure also that Port finished below us this year as well

So Port ladder finishes since 2011 after Cripps came aboard ..... from 2012 onwards 14, 7, 5, 9, 10, 5, 10, 10, 3, 3, 11 .... lots of yo-yoing going on

 

[George]

I'm just not big on succession plans and guaranteeing someone a head coaching job years out. It worked particularly well with Longmire but he was also working under Roos for a while and has been in the frame for multiple senior coaching jobs. Most have not ended well.

Longmire Goodwin Buckley, two have won premierships and the other was a bees dick from one.

 

[lewdogs]

Then I think we are making a mistake if there's no development coming up underneath him. It's just an opinion.

Totally respect that, let's see how it plays out.

 

[Sun Ra]

Peter Ryan at the age.

Very good source mate

As Kevin Bartlett would say - "Lying is the second language of the AFL".

 

[George]

I don’t think we know if his style is outdated TBH. I also think he’s smart enough to adapt. I don’t think we’ll see the exact same match strategies. But I do think we’ll see the same standards & accountability. We assume so because Freo fell down the ladder. Maybe their list was on the decline?

That's what I'm worried about, we don't know what to expect from him. It's not like a Lappin who has just come off a premiership (his second as an assistant) and been at a winning elite culture for a good part of the last 25 years.

The difference probably is that you think and I hope. There's just nothing to base it on with any kind of conviction.

I'm more worried about his 3 years out of the game and lack of recent success than what happened at Freo in all honesty. 2015 is a long time ago.

 

[BrutThough]

How many other times has it happened?

The two most recent ones I can think of have both ended in premierships

Essendon is the most recent example. The Hawthorn attempt didn't even get off the ground before it blew up. Many Collingwood fans argue their one cost them a premiership.

The two successful ones both had Paul Roos involved.

 

[triggering bro]

Mate if he's coming back it won't be as a mentor it will be as the head honcho. He is 55 and one of the most successful coaches of recent times, the majority of his coaching seasons have been successful and he will absolutely want to get a flag. It will be on a long term deal I would think.

Because Ross landed a senior coaching gig so young we tend to think he’s older than he is. 55 isn’t that old. It puts him in the Horse, Bevo & Hinkley age group. And younger than Fagan. It’s not like he’s 69 year old Malthouse. Ross has plenty of years in the tank if he still has the hunger.

 

[Mowman]

I don’t think we know if his style is outdated TBH. I also think he’s smart enough to adapt. I don’t think we’ll see the exact same match strategies. But I do think we’ll see the same standards & accountability. We assume so because Freo fell down the ladder. Maybe their list was on the decline?

Do we really think a coach as successful as he was is not going to be up to date with the game and have new thoughts and strategies. More likely the 3 years will be a good thing and he will be fresh and ready to go

 

[plugger66]

That's what I'm worried about, we don't know what to expect from him. It's not like a Lappin who has just come off a premiership (his second as an assistant) and been at a winning elite culture for a good part of the last 25 years.

The difference probably is that you think and I hope. There's just nothing to base it on with any kind of conviction.

I'm more worried about his 3 years out of the game and lack of recent success than what happened at Freo in all honesty. 2015 is a long time ago.

Lyon doesn’t strike me as a person out of the game. He may not have been coaching but he would have studied the game. I don’t think the 3 years would hurt him at all.

 

[bird_man]

Leigh Matthews was a premiership winning coach before he came to Brisbane.

Ok

Surely getting two clubs that have struggled for success to 3 grand finals should count for something too though?

Would you be judging Lyon differently if the ball had bounced straight up to Milne rather than on right angles?

I don't see how it's fair to judge Matthews off his one premiership despite being out of the game for 3 years and not getting Collingwood into finals in his last year.