No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[stavro#4]

We’re all cherry picking stastitics to support our argument. It’s just that your argument is Ross is the guy regardless of anything.

It’s myopic and I don’t want any part of that.

You don’t even know at this point if he wants to coach us but you’ve already anointed him… you don’t see some issue with that?

Be all in on him, convince yourself he’s the best option of anyone in the last 20 years but at least consider that he has some flaws and he’s had 3-8 years to iron them out and learn from them. If he hasn’t then he’s not the guy for me.

Our president and CEO pointed out our football program failings.

I know because he has done it at 2 clubs now that he creates an elite environment.

So I’m not apologising that I 1000% want Ross and unless it’s Pyke or Buckley I’m not really interested in anyone else. Even then, both options would be massive step downs in my opinion.

His time out of the game won’t have softened him. That’s insulting to him.

If anything, the hope is that it has reinvigorated him and freshened him up.

If the answer is yes and he is all in. Then I hope we sign him up tomorrow.

 

[gringo2011]

We really have no idea what kind of environment he creates, there are a stack of things that go into selecting a coach, most of us arguing against you aren’t saying Ross isn’t the guy, just that we hope there’s some checks and balances to ensure he is all the things you blindly hope he is.

You think the game hasn’t changed… I don’t know what you watch but it clearly isn’t footy.

I think Lyon pioneered a lot of what is normal now. The last 2 premiers and this years defeated grand finalist are all very systems driven one soldier out another in type set ups. That was the difference with us most of the year. We seemed to have 18 guys running at the same ball and apart from our back 6 looked disorganised.

I'm with Stavro, I think he can fix a lot of that. There are probably others that could come in and give them a go and see what we get but at the very least Ross with straighten our spine and have them up to speed in working in a systems based coaching environment.

If he's there he speeds up the process for the next guy at the very worst. Ratts and Richo were teaching bad habits.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Would those suggesting he’s outdated because he’s last 4 years we’re losing seasons , would they suggest that north shouldn’t have gone for Clarko ?

Before you say 4 premierships vs 0 it’s not about that … Clarko missed 4 out of 5 finals in his last seasons … it’s a reflection of where the lists were at rather than the coaching ability …

You could argue Ross has set freo up for the rise they are undertaking now

Must be only me that remembers that Ross has lost 4 grand finals.

That to me is hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching. Had a game plan that got teams to the big dance but was incapable of then getting them over the line.

More worryingly, he ran away from the club when it looked like he might be asked to justify his position in 2011, got sacked from his last coaching role after 4 underperforming years, then pulled out of the race for two coaching positions recently when asked to justify his credentials.

Seems quite happy in the media where he can promote himself from the sidelines where he knows those on the other side won't buy into the situation. (I think its called professionalism).

Guess it preserves his mystique and ego and keeps it safe from the prying eyes of intensive interrogation of his actual performance.

 

[phantom13]

Our president and CEO pointed out our football program failings.

I know because he has done it at 2 clubs now that he creates an elite environment.

So I’m not apologising that I 1000% want Ross and unless it’s Pyke or Buckley I’m not really interested in anyone else. Even then, both options would be massive step downs in my opinion.

His time out of the game won’t have softened him. That’s insulting to him.

If anything, the hope is that it has reinvigorated him and freshened him up.

If the answer is yes and he is all in. Then I hope we sign him up tomorrow.

Step in the right direction.

If the answer is yes then I probably do too as it stands we don’t know if any of that is true.

He might still say he doesn’t want to coach us.

 

[triggering bro]

Prob got that from lenny

Plugs use to tuck him in at night

 

[stavro#4]

This is the most extreme version of somethibg that no one has said. If you’re gonna take the piss at least make it mildly accurate to what we’re saying.

You have all used crap such as the rules have changed and he has been out of the game for 3 years and at this point you throw in how he hasn’t had a winning season since 2015.

Let’s not pretend otherwise or forget your snipey call about Tom Stewart.

 

[phantom13]

I think Lyon pioneered a lot of what is normal now. The last 2 premiers and this years defeated grand finalist are all very systems driven one soldier out another in type set ups. That was the difference with us most of the year. We seemed to have 18 guys running at the same ball and apart from our back 6 looked disorganised.

I'm with Stavro, I think he can fix a lot of that. There are probably others that could come in and give them a go and see what we get but at the very least Ross with straighten our spine and have them up to speed in working in a systems based coaching environment.

If he's there he speeds up the process for the next guy at the very worst. Ratts and Richo were teaching bad habits.

Sure, I’ve made the point that he was an exceptional coach and a great strategist when he coached but plenty of things that got pioneered by others have been refined and improved on, others have been completely te invented.

Again, if Ross is the same innovator and leader that he was transplanted to 2023 and re invigorated then he is almost certainly the best option but AGAIN for the thousandth time, you’re all assuming that’s what he is.

What if he has a coffee with us and someone goes “what do you think about the 6-6-6 rule and how we combat say, Melbourne with two first class rucks and an unbelievable on ball brigade?” And his response is a shrug… you still want him then?

Cause that’s how blind the optimism of some is.

 

[phantom13]

You have all used crap such as the rules have changed and he has been out of the game for 3 years and at this point you throw in how he hasn’t had a winning season since 2015.

Let’s not pretend otherwise or forget your snipey call about Tom Stewart.

You specifically noted Tom Stewart plays loose (hot tip, the teams that beat them man him up so he’s not loose remember when we did that?) that was a specific snipe about a specific point.

You saying we all think Ross is shit and can’t possibly coach cause he’s a fossil that hasn’t won since 2015 isn’t close to anything we’ve said.

For clarity we’re all simply asking that there’s a check in on whether Ross is still motivated and current with footy, which in spite of your protestations is a pretty fair question on a pretty reasonable subject for a head coaching candidate.

 

[aussierulesrules]

BJ could be a really good get. Excellent footy brain and sets extremely high standards.

 

[Diehard Saint]

There is nothing to say he will play that style of footy. The club would be asking those question. Lyon seems like he has a great footy brain so I would think he would adapt to a different game plan.

He has history of getting the best out of players at two clubs. And not just the stars.
Many of those players say he’s the best coach they ever had.

He may not have coached for three years, but you don’t lose the skills of communication, developing relationships and being able to inspire players.

 

[Murraj1966]

Must be only me that remembers that Ross has lost 4 grand finals.

That to me is hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching. Had a game plan that got teams to the big dance but was incapable of then getting them over the line.

More worryingly, he ran away from the club when it looked like he might be asked to justify his position in 2011, got sacked from his last coaching role after 4 underperforming years, then pulled out of the race for two coaching positions recently when asked to justify his credentials.

Seems quite happy in the media where he can promote himself from the sidelines where he knows those on the other side won't buy into the situation. (I think its called professionalism).

Guess it preserves his mystique and ego and keeps it safe from the prying eyes of intensive interrogation of his actual performance.

Such specious reasoning.

If the wind blows a bit harder or the groundskeeper makes 1 bit of turf softer in 2010 he's a Premiership Coach.

You say he can't get them over the line but instead look at it as he's put 2 teams into a position to win the flag 3 times. That sounds a hell of a lot better than Ratts giving Billings another hug for his good trying as we go 11-11

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I think they release the news officially around 11:30 pm Wednesday night.

 

[gringo2011]

I understand where you are coming from George, but for me the issue isn’t the style of football we play because that can be re-designed, modified and replaced.

Lyon will bring standards. Uncompromising standards. He will drill running patterns, team rules and team style. He will demand self sacrifice. He will have difficult conversations. He will enforce a type of team football with buy-in and if players don’t adhere to that then they won’t play.

He will harden us up. He will demand effort every week. He will ensure when all players need to wear one for the team then they commit and sacrifice. He will remove selfishness.

I’ve watched my beloved team since 2012. We have been insipid too often. We haven’t been well coach and well drilled. We have poor skills. We have a crap game plan. We are not developing players to improve individually and as part of a team. I’m not sure if our players care enough or are just not good enough.

I’m sick of it. The Essendon game last year was the final straw for me. It was a gutless and half hearted performance. It upset me. And it has happened far too often since 2012. Our problems are as much about standards as ability.

Brett Ratten seems to be a very good man. A decent person. But he was a poor match day coach and the players never played a fearsome style of football. We were going nowhere with him. Same with Alan Richardson. Same with Scott Watters.

I want my team to be ferocious every week. I want zealotry. I want them to leave everything on the field, win or lose. I’m haven’t been getting that for 10 years, and I’m sick of it. I yearn for the days when we had that.

I don’t know if Ross Lyon will succeed if appointed as coach. But I know he will demand these things. If it doesn’t happen then it’s the list rather than him, and we can then start again. But I want to find out and I think Lyon gives us our best chance of getting the answer. And maybe he will re-set the standards we need in order to succeed like the top clubs.

Sorry for the rant. I enjoy reading your posts.

I remember being at a pub watching a game around 2009 and just seeing the manic pressure that we put on West Coast in this game. The intensity was like nothing I'd ever seem in footy. We just work rate culled them, they were like madmen. It was the first time I'd really decided that Ross knew what he was doing. They were like a cult full of zealous fury.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

These days they push the stragglers out and get you through. A 90+ at an elite private is worth about 10 less than in a public school IMO. Select entry public is similar to the privates though.

And because of that you pay through the nose for properties in those preferred public school zones.

 

[John2010362340]

Based on what?

Based on what’s out there atm.. The main characteristic you look for in a leader, is will they buy in to what he is saying. There’s enough evidence to suggest that’s his biggest strength.

 

[gringo2011]

Plugs use to tuck him in at night

That's sounds kind of creepy.

 

[Diehard Saint]

For clarity we’re all simply asking that there’s a check in on whether Ross is still motivated and current with footy, which in spite of your protestations is a pretty fair question on a pretty reasonable subject for a head coaching candidate.

Do you honestly think this would not have happened?
Lyon knows the commitment needed to coach. He’s not a rookie. If he’s prepared to give up what seems to be a pretty comfortable existence to put himself into the firing line again, then of course the motivation is there.

 

[gringo2011]

BJ could be a really good get. Excellent footy brain and sets extremely high standards.

You certainly wouldn't piss him off. He'd make a very good bad cop.

 

[PoppedCorn]

 

[phantom13]

Based on what’s out there atm.. The main characteristic you look for in a leader, is will they buy in to what he is saying. There’s enough evidence to suggest that’s his biggest strength.

If you go back at least 3-8 years as your evidence base that’s true.

Like, you’d swear some of us were calling for Lyon to be banished from the game and his record burned.

We’re only suggesting some checks and balances to ensure he’s at least as good as he was, it’s staggering to me that people seem to think that’s so wildly offensive.

 

[snails13]

and a subscription to Dimmy2Door

Did our most successful coach last 5 years?

 

[phantom13]

Do you honestly think this would not have happened?
Lyon knows the commitment needed to coach. He’s not a rookie. If he’s prepared to give up what seems to be a pretty comfortable existence to put himself into the firing line again, then of course the motivation is there.

I don’t have a clue, according to the record we sacked Ratts last Thursday and haven’t spoken with him.

As I’ve pointed out we don’t even know if he wants to coach and by extension coach us.

If he’s announced Monday i would assume all those things happen.

As I just posted I’m simply pointing out people in here want him whether this has happened or not, they’re adamant what he achieved 8 years ago means everything and nothing else matters.

It’s bizarre that “hey maybe let’s check he’s not just a media puppet waiting for a pension before we write up his contract” is such an outrageous suggestion:

 

[PoppedCorn]

Did our most successful coach last 5 years?

 

[gringo2011]

Middling now. Big come down from top 4. Do you remember what you argue on each thread.

I've said all along that we topped up for the now and couldn't get us to finals still..... and sold out our future to do it. The lists around us have substantially improved and for us to rise we are going to have to have Ross put on a coaching master class and bring on a heap already listed.

A new coach might help reenergise but we have gone full circle back to drafting because we realised that he'd ****ed shit up.

I'm pumped about a change of coaches so don't want to bog down in negative shit but he's made some poor calls.

I don't care if the club thinks he's the right guy, they've reviewed him and if he stays it's ticked off but I'm punitive and would knife him for sport.

 

[Diehard Saint]

You certainly wouldn't piss him off. He'd make a very good bad cop.

As the pretzels would no doubt testify!