No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[Sully111]

Ross is going to be great.

I promise.

 

[gringo2011]

If you go back at least 3-8 years as your evidence base that’s true.

Like, you’d swear some of us were calling for Lyon to be banished from the game and his record burned.

We’re only suggesting some checks and balances to ensure he’s at least as good as he was, it’s staggering to me that people seem to think that’s so wildly offensive.

To me 6 month payouts are like a free hit. I'd bring a new guy in every 6 months will my intolerance for incompetence but you might as well use it.

 

[snails13]

View attachment 1537748

 

[stavro#4]

You specifically noted Tom Stewart plays loose (hot tip, the teams that beat them man him up so he’s not loose remember when we did that?) that was a specific snipe about a specific point.

You saying we all think Ross is s**t and can’t possibly coach cause he’s a fossil that hasn’t won since 2015 isn’t close to anything we’ve said.

For clarity we’re all simply asking that there’s a check in on whether Ross is still motivated and current with footy, which in spite of your protestations is a pretty fair question on a pretty reasonable subject for a head coaching candidate.

Yeah all those teams that beat them after we did, did a great job.

And let’s no rewrite what’s been written by you lot.

You first all got annoyed about a “process”. Because he needs to interview against career assistants.

Then as the media started talking up his prospects you all pivoted too:

• time out of the game
• rule changes
• last successful in 2015
• most recent history over rules his prior success
• technically not a successful coach because he never won a flag

So we can go back and forth but you haven’t given Ross the candidate his dues.

You have made up scenarios to bring down the strength of his candidacy.

George is even going on about a succession plan as the only means of being acceptable

 

[Diehard Saint]

It’s bizarre that “hey maybe let’s check he’s not just a media puppet waiting for a pension before we write up his contract” is such an outrageous suggestion:

No, I think what is bizarre is that you think the club would actually give him the gig without speaking to him about all the things you are (understandably) concerned about.

You’ve seen Basset in action, surely you realise he’s not just going to gift him the job on a platter?

His a*se is on the line too if this comes crashing down on his head ultimately. He’s a competitive beast, and he’s going to want another one to lift the club out of the mediocrity we are currently mired in.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Such specious reasoning.

If the wind blows a bit harder or the groundskeeper makes 1 bit of turf softer in 2010 he's a Premiership Coach.

You say he can't get them over the line but instead look at it as he's put 2 teams into a position to win the flag 3 times. That sounds a hell of a lot better than Ratts giving Billings another hug for his good trying as we go 11-11

Hang on I'll check the records - nope, I was right - he's lost 4 grand finals.

And that's the basic issue I have with the "hero worshipping" that's going on here.

In the end he was a good coach who failed on multiple occasions, we should have a look at him but with absolutely zero favours.

He carries baggage not trophies.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I’m definitely warming to having bj Lenny and Ross there.
The boys will come back for pre season training questioning whether or not they’ve stepped through a dimensional portal into an alternative earth
For a bit of a laff Lethers should project psychedelic images on the meeting room wall and play Jefferson starship loudly in the background for first day back.

 

[Jay Beast]

You'd reckon a guy like RTB after sitting out for a few years watching the game, has a number of tricks up his sleeve he's gagging to roll out.

Friggin want to hope so.

 

[plugger66]

I've said all along that we topped up for the now and couldn't get us to finals still..... and sold out our future to do it. The lists around us have substantially improved and for us to rise we are going to have to have Ross put on a coaching master class and bring on a heap already listed.

A new coach might help reenergise but we have gone full circle back to drafting because we realised that he'd cactus s**t up.

I'm pumped about a change of coaches so don't want to bog down in negative s**t but he's made some poor calls.

I don't care if the club thinks he's the right guy, they've reviewed him and if he stays it's ticked off but I'm punitive and would knife him for sport.

You know he has the final say on all calls? You said a top 4 list and we then add windhanger Milera and owens. That isn’t selling out our future. If it’s top 4 without them it could be a top 2 if they show the improvement expected. You seem to like sacking people. You may get your way if the saints don’t like him working in Adelaide.

 

[St Neil]

Enjoy reading yours too mate. I get where people are coming from. Just think we can get the same ruthlessness and hard edge from someone who's currently coaching and in a winning environment. My point I guess is that Ross isn't the only answer.

I don’t think there is an available coach who will do that to the same degree George. Lyon is a hard bastard and he sets a standard in team commitment that I don’t think has been matched since his halcyon years at Freo.

Others have won Premierships and others have been more successful. I concede that and that is a reasonable point to make.

I just think that Lyon is the exact type of coach we need now. A perfect fit. We are soft, inconsistent and appear to be a team that isn’t well regimented. He will fix that. Immediately. And he will make us an honest football team that has a dip every week.

There are other great coaches out there and they have been mentioned. But IMO Lyon is what we need now.

But differences in opinion are always a good thing. Hopefully whoever coaches us can put us all out of our collective misery on Grand Final day.

I’m not getting any younger. I was born the same year we won our only flag. I don’t want to die before we win another.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Hang on I'll check the records - nope, I was right - he's lost 4 grand finals.

And that's the basic issue I have with the "hero worshipping" that's going on here.

In the end he was a good coach who failed on multiple occasions, we should have a look at him but with absolutely zero favours.

He carries baggage not trophies.

Would you rather have a coach that failed to actually GET to the Grand Finals?

 

[Sully111]

Hang on I'll check the records - nope, I was right - he's lost 4 grand finals.

And that's the basic issue I have with the "hero worshipping" that's going on here.

In the end he was a good coach who failed on multiple occasions, we should have a look at him but with absolutely zero favours.

He carries baggage not trophies.

Dude... it's absolutely insane that you're ignoring what happened in those grand finals

You can have as simplistic a view as you like but it's not realistic.

Yes, you're correct. (except he didn't lose 4 grand finals. One was a draw) But we all know us in 09 and Freo in 13 was just guys sh*tting the bed in front of goal.

 

[Munga]

View attachment 1537748

Wow, Lyon only needs to be sacked after round 17 to become second on our list only behind Jeans! But winning % he has everyone covered (except Lade ffs!).

 

[L_W_P]

Must be only me that remembers that Ross has lost 4 grand finals.

That to me is hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching. Had a game plan that got teams to the big dance but was incapable of then getting them over the line.

More worryingly, he ran away from the club when it looked like he might be asked to justify his position in 2011, got sacked from his last coaching role after 4 underperforming years, then pulled out of the race for two coaching positions recently when asked to justify his credentials.

Seems quite happy in the media where he can promote himself from the sidelines where he knows those on the other side won't buy into the situation. (I think its called professionalism).

Guess it preserves his mystique and ego and keeps it safe from the prying eyes of intensive interrogation of his actual performance.

Chris Scott's finals record is rubbish but that doesn't stop him being one of the best coaches in the game.

Ross leaving was more the fault of the board than of Ross. Freo were ruthless and swooped in with huge money and the Saints were too slow to react.

I agree that he's got an ego but that's what the club needs.

Grabbing the next young tactician could go in all sorts of ways - Scott Watters was the 2IC of a legend, Alan Richardson was a "youth development guru", Brett Ratten dragged a list worse than ours into finals AND had learned under Clarko.

Adam Yze could be a genius but he's also been passed over a few times. Even Adam Kingsley (who we were happy to see the back of) has found a gig before him.

Ross can come in and slap people around. The players have run things for far too long.

 

[phantom13]

Yeah all those teams that beat them after we did, did a great job.

And let’s no rewrite what’s been written by you lot.

You first all got annoyed about a “process”. Because he needs to interview against career assistants.

Then as the media started talking up his prospects you all pivoted too:

• time out of the game
• rule changes
• last successful in 2015
• most recent history over rules his prior success
• technically not a successful coach because he never won a flag

So we can go back and forth but you haven’t given Ross the candidate his dues.

You have made up scenarios to bring down the strength of his candidacy.

George is even going on about a succession plan as the only means of being acceptable

Yeh again, that’s not right.

Personally I’d prefer he goes through a detailed process against other candidates. If it doesn’t happen I won’t lose sleep over it, my personal preference about how we appoint means nothing. I detailed it cause I was asked I don’t actually expect that to happen. I still hope we speak to people other than Ross otherwise your baseline is your only line. If he’s soooooo good then he’ll run rings around the other candidates. Any process is all over reallt bamged on about.

And we didn’t pivot, the reason we’ve called for a process is because he’s not the ****ing messiah, he was a very good coach that didn’t win a flag and had some shortcomings and hasn’t coached in 3 years. I and most others have been consistent that we’d like to ensure he’s addressed his shortcomings and is still up to speed with footy in 2023.

I’ve actually said a few times if we’re stacking up just CVs alone he probably does have the best one (given he’s the only real candidate with head coaching experience that’s not suprising).

He’s the strongest candidate for sure if you don’t speak to him or anyone else, what’s the harm in ensuring his history is still current?

 

[phantom13]

No, I think what is bizarre is that you think the club would actually give him the gig without speaking to him about all the things you are (understandably) concerned about.

You’ve seen Basset in action, surely you realise he’s not just going to gift him the job on a platter?

His a*se is on the line too if this comes crashing down on his head ultimately. He’s a competitive beast, and he’s going to want another one to lift the club out of the mediocrity we are currently mired in.

I don’t, I’m sure there is a process, I’m also pretty confident it’s already started. I’m only backing up that it happens and if it by chance spits out someone other than Ross are you all going to admit that maybe it was a good call? Or just sook that it wasn’t Ross? Cause I can assure you if Ross gets appointed I’ll back him as loud as anyone else here because I’ll be confident he was the right call.

 

[L_W_P]

Hang on I'll check the records - nope, I was right - he's lost 4 grand finals.

And that's the basic issue I have with the "hero worshipping" that's going on here.

In the end he was a good coach who failed on multiple occasions, we should have a look at him but with absolutely zero favours.

He carries baggage not trophies.

He's only lost 3.

One was a draw.

He was also 3 straight kicks away from being a back to back premiership coach.

Does Adam Simpsons single premiership make him a better coach?

Talented campaigners get favors. It's the way the world works. Other clubs are onto it - Greene, Dusty, May, JDG etc

Basically IDGAF if Ross Lyon makes his bed lol

 

[Diehard Saint]

I don’t, I’m sure there is a process, I’m also pretty confident it’s already started. I’m only backing up that it happens and if it by chance spits out someone other than Ross are you all going to admit that maybe it was a good call? Or just sook that it wasn’t Ross? Cause I can assure you if Ross gets appointed I’ll back him as loud as anyone else here because I’ll be confident he was the right call.

And as long as it’s not Malthouse or Hird I’ll back the club in too.

Maybe I’m too trusting, but I think Basset is one tough bastard who’s had it up to here with mediocrity, so I’ll back him in to make the correct choice - even though they did make the mistake backing in Ratts.

You could see it really troubled him to reverse that call and correct the mistake, but he did it nevertheless.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah all those teams that beat them after we did, did a great job.

And let’s no rewrite what’s been written by you lot.

You first all got annoyed about a “process”. Because he needs to interview against career assistants.

Then as the media started talking up his prospects you all pivoted too:

• time out of the game
• rule changes
• last successful in 2015
• most recent history over rules his prior success
• technically not a successful coach because he never won a flag

So we can go back and forth but you haven’t given Ross the candidate his dues.

You have made up scenarios to bring down the strength of his candidacy.

George is even going on about a succession plan as the only means of being acceptable

I can see people's concerns. Everything is a gamble and some think he's not worth the risk. We all see things differently and his history with us left some people less than enamoured with him.

We could get the next Bevo or the next Neeld if we go untried. For where we are at the lower risk is a proven operator who should be able to cobble together a pretty competitive outfit that will at least instil some good habits into our youth. I'm assuming we are still planning to bring through a decent amount of kids over the next few years.

I can see him doing pretty well with our list. It looks like a Ross Lyon special, a bit of top end, plenty of soldiers and a few quality kids. He can get the best out of the disciplined soldier class and we look very coachable.

 

[St Neil]

I remember being at a pub watching a game around 2009 and just seeing the manic pressure that we put on West Coast in this game. The intensity was like nothing I'd ever seem in footy. We just work rate culled them, they were like madmen. It was the first time I'd really decided that Ross knew what he was doing. They were like a cult full of zealous fury.

I agree mate. I remember that game. I was actually quite emotional watching it at the time. It was my team I was watching. Very early in the season at Docklands and was a turning point for the team.

I remember listening to Neil Craig after we beat the Crows in 2009. It was the second time we had beaten them that year and I think they only kicked 7 goals for the game.

Craig said he had never seen a team play like that St Kilda team. He said the discipline and self sacrifice was beyond manic. He said it was impossible to coach against and impossible to beat if sustained at that level.

That’s not just ability but a cultural standard. It’s will power and buy-in. It’s what we need installed into the club now.

 

[BrutThough]

I don’t, I’m sure there is a process, I’m also pretty confident it’s already started. I’m only backing up that it happens and if it by chance spits out someone other than Ross are you all going to admit that maybe it was a good call? Or just sook that it wasn’t Ross? Cause I can assure you if Ross gets appointed I’ll back him as loud as anyone else here because I’ll be confident he was the right call.

Lets face it. It's not going to be a real process because Ross refuses to partipcate in one.

 

[gringo2011]

You know he has the final say on all calls? You said a top 4 list and we then add windhanger Milera and owens. That isn’t selling out our future. If it’s top 4 without them it could be a top 2 if they show the improvement expected. You seem to like sacking people. You may get your way if the saints don’t like him working in Adelaide.

As I said I'm vibing on the coach cull. Stop bursting my bubble.

 

[sauce_head]

Must be only me that remembers that Ross has lost 4 grand finals.

That to me is hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching. Had a game plan that got teams to the big dance but was incapable of then getting them over the line.

More worryingly, he ran away from the club when it looked like he might be asked to justify his position in 2011, got sacked from his last coaching role after 4 underperforming years, then pulled out of the race for two coaching positions recently when asked to justify his credentials.

Seems quite happy in the media where he can promote himself from the sidelines where he knows those on the other side won't buy into the situation. (I think its called professionalism).

Guess it preserves his mystique and ego and keeps it safe from the prying eyes of intensive interrogation of his actual performance.

I just don’t understand the lost 4 grand finals. I mean for starters he lost 3, but leave that aside.

And of those three his team was leading in two of them and if not for poor kicking would have won.

Would you have taken finishing 9th in 09 and 10 and not having lost? I just don’t get the argument.

 

[Mowman]

Would you rather have a coach that failed to actually GET to the Grand Finals?

I would be happy with a coach that can get us in the 8 at the moment

 

[Diehard Saint]

I can see people's concerns. Everything is a gamble and some think he's not worth the risk. We all see things differently and his history with us left some people less than enamoured with him.

We could get the next Bevo or the next Neeld if we go untried. For where we are at the lower risk is a proven operator who should be able to cobble together a pretty competitive outfit that will at least instil some good habits into our youth. I'm assuming we are still planning to bring through a decent amount of kids over the next few years.

I can see him doing pretty well with our list. It looks like a Ross Lyon special, a bit of top end, plenty of soldiers and a few quality kids. He can get the best out of the disciplined soldier class and we look very coachable.

We had an untried coach with Richo.

Then we got Richo Mark 2 because he was sitting in the chair next to him and was the easy option. Thank heavens we haven’t wasted another six years.

No guarantees ever on any coach we get now, but with where our list is now, I believe we can’t afford another coach on L Plates.