No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[bergholt]

If you believe the whispers that Ross is already over the line, they clearly haven't done even a half assed process and talked to other potential candidate.

They could easily have talked to 4 or 5 just on Friday. All the potential candidates have been up for other jobs recently, get them to send through their resumes and a presso on their philosophy. Jump on zoom for an hour or so. Doesn’t take long when all the candidates are basically known quantities.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

I watch Ross and listen to him a lot on footy classified and triple m, I think he’s by far the best pundit in it at the moment, and it’s funny looking back on his commentary during the year on us. He clearly rates our list. Picked us a lot and always talked us up. That along with finally opening up on why he left it’s almost like he was positioning himself to take over.

I can see why our list would appeal to him, a lot of good players in their prime (Steele, Sincs, Marshall, Wilkie, Crouch) and a lot of players that have not reached anywhere close to their potential (Billing’s, Gresh, King, Battle, Higgins etc.) I think he thinks he can make us competitive straight away and develop the kids at the same time.

For those saying he’s been out of the game for three years, that’s not entirely correct. He’s watched and analysed the game very closely in a professional capacity in his role in the media. He’s very very smart, there is no way him hell he comes in and stubbornly try’s to implement the game plan from 2009.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

We had an untried coach with Richo.

Then we got Richo Mark 2 because he was sitting in the chair next to him and was the easy option. Thank heavens we haven’t wasted another six years.

No guarantees ever on any coach we get now, but with where our list is now, I believe we can’t afford another coach on L Plates.

Exactly.

We can nitpick on Ross having been out of the game for awhile, losing Grand Finals, whatever.

What he has that maybe only a couple of coaches in the whole league has is an ability to inspire a group of young men he’s in charge of to play selfless footy.

He’s done it twice with different clubs and taken them to Grand Finals.

His oratory skills and standard setting alone is enough to get him hired.

Imagine some of our poor players having only been coached by Alan “strong in the contest” Richardson talking out the side of his mouth, and Brett “why not us” Ratten.

They’ll get the shock of their lives (in a good way) when a bloke like Ross comes in and demands so much more from them: more than they even knew they had in themselves.

That’s what top-notch coaches do, and Ross is a top-notch coach. Like Clarko, having a few down years in an equalized comp is nothing to worry about.

There is so much improvement we will get from blokes in our group from having a Ross Lyon in charge of them.

It’s going to be really exciting to watch them flourish.

 

[stavro#4]

I can see people's concerns. Everything is a gamble and some think he's not worth the risk. We all see things differently and his history with us left some people less than enamoured with him.

We could get the next Bevo or the next Neeld if we go untried. For where we are at the lower risk is a proven operator who should be able to cobble together a pretty competitive outfit that will at least instil some good habits into our youth. I'm assuming we are still planning to bring through a decent amount of kids over the next few years.

I can see him doing pretty well with our list. It looks like a Ross Lyon special, a bit of top end, plenty of soldiers and a few quality kids. He can get the best out of the disciplined soldier class and we look very coachable.

I guess it’s your expectations of him.

I for instance have no expectation of him being out next premiership coach. We are so far from that.

My expectations are that he can create a clear path forward and get the best out of our list whilst simultaneously creating an environment that footballers want to be in because they believe they will get the most out of themselves.

Everyone else crying about process. Have done **** all research on the collingwood Essendon and Carlton coach searches that involved him.

Their are videos of him explaining his decision and thoughts. But still not good enough.

Behind frustrating.

 

[Saint Shags]

So did clarkos teams, they fell off a cliff twice.
Bevos team as well.
The only one that hasn't are the cats. So your point is really null

On SM-F711B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Clarkos team fell into a heap the first time because they got the first one early. Way ahead of schedule.
Second time they did a similar thing. Didn't refresh with core youth coming through. They tried to trade their way out.

Sydney
Richmond

Bulldogs fell in a heap 2017-2018 but have been back for finals the last 3 years.
They were able to reset quickly.
And it's been shown clubs can do it.

 

[BrutThough]

I’d think he will have to present for the job but I doubt he needs to do power point presentations or stuff that a first time coach would have do and that seems fair enough to me. We just need to ask the right questions. He will need to give the right answers. If he does the process of finding a coach finishes straight away.

I'd hope we at least talk to 1-2 others. Look over their presentations, hear their perspective as coaches actively coaching in 2022.

If we have tunnel vision on just him because of what he did over 8 years ago, we will have been negligent as a club.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Jeez - I must wrong.

Can someone go down to Moorabbin and take a photo of our second Premiership Cup for me. Didn't see it when I was down there last.

Lose

verb
fail to win (a game or contest)

Yep you are

 

[Barrels]

Oh did Luke Ball get a TER of 98 FROM XAVIER?? So much better than getting a TER of 98 from one of those sh**ty public schools

 

[sunny3193]

Hang on I'll check the records - nope, I was right - he's lost 4 grand finals.

And that's the basic issue I have with the "hero worshipping" that's going on here.

In the end he was a good coach who failed on multiple occasions, we should have a look at him but with absolutely zero favours.

He carries baggage not trophies.

Alternatively: name another available candidate that has developed such a dominant team as the one we had in 2009.
Which, just quietly, is the best St Kilda side I have seen.
Even Jeans in 66 couldn’t claim that.
Won the first 7 on the trot then lost to Richmond.
AND won the GF by the finest of margins with a lucky bounce.

 

[phantom13]

I guess it’s your expectations of him.

I for instance have no expectation of him being out next premiership coach. We are so far from that.

My expectations are that he can create a clear path forward and get the best out of our list whilst simultaneously creating an environment that footballers want to be in because they believe they will get the most out of themselves.

Everyone else crying about process. Have done * all research on the collingwood Essendon and Carlton coach searches that involved him.

Their are videos of him explaining his decision and thoughts. But still not good enough.

Behind frustrating.

Lol, yeh okay only you could possibly have an opinion of how we should go about it.

Ffs dude you’re the only one absolutely assured that you’re right. The “process” crew you keep shitting on are saying we just want to make sure that those actually appointing the coach have all the right info and that the candidate (Ross or otherwise) actually aligns with what we want to do from the review.

You’re not even really arguing against the process crew anymore, you even acknowledged we should check he’s still the guy you think he is with your earlier “if” post.

 

[True Believer]

And not directed at you but this suggestion that he needs an Offensive Coordinator to help him. Whoever it is best be strong willed. It can't be Roo or BJ or one of the old boys.

What if it was Robert Harvey? Was at the club this weekend........

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just going off what was reported.

This narrative he turned down Essendon because he wanted the Saints job is a fun one though. How incredibly cruel to make Ratts beg for his job for a week if we had already hired a new coach a month ago.

Not sure who started the narrative about that. Don’t believe it for a minute. As you say, would have been very cruel - can’t believe they would have done that.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Just admit he hasn’t lost four grand finals and move along. If you haven’t doubled down about it you wouldn’t need to be so embarrassed.

Yeah OK - you're right - I was completely and utterly wrong in saying Ross Lyon has lost every grand final he's been involved in and I'm emotionally shattered by my error.

Clearly very misleading - what I should have said is that Ross Lyon has failed to win any of the 4 grand final he's been involved in.

That better?

 

[BrutThough]

They could easily have talked to 4 or 5 just on Friday. All the potential candidates have been up for other jobs recently, get them to send through their resumes and a presso on their philosophy. Jump on zoom for an hour or so. Doesn’t take long when all the candidates are basically known quantities.

Short chats to gage interest but given no one knew it was coming, I doubt any potential candidate was prepared to have a proper, in-depth conversation about what they would do with our list or how our players matched their desired game style. Those types of conversations need some time to properly prep for.

 

[stavro#4]

Lol, yeh okay only you could possibly have an opinion of how we should go about it.

Ffs dude you’re the only one absolutely assured that you’re right. The “process” crew you keep shitting on are saying we just want to make sure that those actually appointing the coach have all the right info and that the candidate (Ross or otherwise) actually aligns with what we want to do from the review.

You’re not even really arguing against the process crew anymore, you even acknowledged we should check he’s still the guy you think he is with your earlier “if” post.

My point was about you lot crying that he doesn’t go through the process.

No research. Just assumption.

If after the review they have identified its Ross they want and need. That’s a process. But that hasn’t been acceptable to you lot.

You want him in a suit and tie with a power point preso up against Yze and Caracella and whoever else.

 

[Saint Shags]

I for instance have no expectation of him being out next premiership coach. We are so far from that.

If he is signed on for a long term deal, eg 5 years you better believe there is an expectation to be a contender within that time.

 

[bergholt]

Short chats to gage interest but given no one knew it was coming, I doubt any potential candidate was prepared to have a proper, in-depth conversation about what they would do with our list or how our players matched their desired game style. Those types of conversations need some time to properly prep for.

Maybe, but you can rule people out pretty quickly from short chats if you know what you’re looking for. Like if you speak to Yze and he says “yeah I think the players need to own the standards themselves, my job is to give them cuddles” then it’s pretty clear he’s not the guy.

 

[stavro#4]

If he is signed on for a long term deal, eg 5 years you better believe there is an expectation to be a contender within that time.

I’m not saying I don’t expect to contend.

I’m just not putting that expectation out there that Ross will be our next premiership coach.

It is a very different thing.

But I do expect an elite football environment that if he doesn’t achieve the ultimate. It is set up for his successor to do it.

 

[BrutThough]

Maybe, but you can rule people out pretty quickly from short chats if you know what you’re looking for. Like if you speak to Yze and he says “yeah I think the players need to own the standards themselves, my job is to give them cuddles” then it’s pretty clear he’s not the guy.

But short chats shouldn't rule our everyone but 1 candidate. If they do, we clearly have a set agenda and aren't truely listening to what anyone else has to say.

 

[Yawkey way]

Makes me laugh that people think we’d make an offer to Lyon without knowing if he was up and about ready to take on the challenge. He’s tracking pretty well and represented by a former board member so if we make an offer and he accepts then he’s ready to go.

Now the great selection process that’s so important, didn’t we offer serial bad boy Jordan DeGoey 5 years on big money signed off on by the board. I’m pretty sure most people were happy with that, clearly the club had identified he was the type of player we needed. Now when the same people have potentially said we need this type of coach to lead us and Ross lyon is our man all of a sudden their not qualified to pull the trigger.

What do people think a selection process will yield, it will still be the same people making the call. Experienced known quantity or potentially great presentation untried coach. The club clearly knows what they want, if Ross Lyon is our man pull the trigger and let’s get the ball rolling on preparing for next season. As for purple or David porky pig king I don’t give a too hoots what they think, does anyone think they wish us well or really care about ratten, please spare me.

 

[Yawkey way]

But short chats shouldn't rule our everyone but 1 candidate. If they do, we clearly have a set agenda and aren't truely listening to what anyone else has to say.

Who are “anyone else“?. We have an elected board, a CEO, football manager etc they will make the decision. Who gives a flying about anyone else, oh Kane Cornes isn’t happy

 

[Mikka84]

What did I miss?

 

[plugger66]

But short chats shouldn't rule our everyone but 1 candidate. If they do, we clearly have a set agenda and aren't truely listening to what anyone else has to say.

If it is Lyon I’d say for certain they have a set agenda but that doesn’t mean we just give it to him. As I said we need to ask the right questions and he still needs to give the right answers.

 

[bergholt]

But short chats shouldn't rule our everyone but 1 candidate. If they do, we clearly have a set agenda and aren't truely listening to what anyone else has to say.

I'm just not sure you're taking into account how small this industry is. There are 18 senior coaches and maybe another 10 or 15 guys in the wings who could do the job. People who've been around the industry for a long time - like Walsh, or maybe Rath when at the AFL, or Dilena, or even Lethers - know a fair bit about all of them without even having the conversations.

Then given the club has just done a full review, they know what sort of coach they're not looking for, so that rules out a lot of candidates immediately. Basically there are probably only a handful who fit the bill. They could have sounded out each of them on Friday and over the weekend.

This isn't like hiring a barista at your local cafe, where there are hundreds who might apply. It's a tiny industry with a lot of known quantities.

 

[stavro#4]

But short chats shouldn't rule our everyone but 1 candidate. If they do, we clearly have a set agenda and aren't truely listening to what anyone else has to say.

No it doesn’t.

If the expectation is creating an elite environment that leads to onfield success.

Ross has proven runs on the board.

So if he ticks the boxes.

What do we gain from putting the other applicants through a lengthy interview process?

They may be able to do that. But Ross has done that. Twice.

If you were buying something.

You knew what you wanted that item to do and achieve for you.

And you found an item that does all things.

What are you gaining if the similar items you are comparing them against can’t categorically be proven to achieve what you want?

That is the crux of this “process” argument