No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[SaintsSeptember]

I used to be a bit involved with the Auto industry when we had one.
Someone at Holden told me they tried to never change the drivetrain and the car platform at the same time. That's because when you make big changes you have problems, and you have to work to fix them.
So when the first Commodores came out, they still had the old Kingswood/Torana drive train.
When the new VR came out they were forced ( economic factors with the Nissan engine ) to change both, and it was a disaster.

This year we've changed Finnis, Ratten, and some assistant coaches.
I just hope its not too much.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Not sure, what do you reckon?

I think there’s too many factors at play in this space to even guess.

 

[George]

I think there’s too many factors at play in this space to even guess.

I think we can really only go by what we've been told, the rest seems to be guesswork.

bergholt made a good point about waiting until trade period was over but you would think Ratten could keep that quiet and at least be given an extra month to look for other work or sort out what he was going to do once it became public in the following few weeks. All we know is that we knew in September and waited a month before telling him.

Looking forward to the public release of the review.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I haven't followed the last 100 pages or so but "flip-flopping" is a weird concept journos love because they've never had to make a harder decision that where to go for lunch.

The classic Keynes/Churchill/Samuelson/whoever quote is relevant here:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

What journos call "flip-flopping" is making a better decision as more evidence becomes available. Those who've had to make decisions in the face of serious uncertainty (like when running a footy club or any other organisation) soon understand that you can't always be right and the worst thing to do when you realise you've made a mistake is be too scared to acknowledge it and fix it.

Bassat realised he'd made a bad call. He fixed it. I have no idea how that was done or if it was "fair" to Ratten (not sure exactly what fair is when getting fired with no chance of reprieve) but that's clearly the right thing to do imo.

Thought Lyon must have been confirmed after a late night on the reds at Bassats house but no its pages and pages about whether the club flip flopped or made bad decisions.

I agree - I don't think they made bad decisions (except for one) - they did exactly what was right at the time.

8/3 at the bye - extend contract - Good decision

Lethlean transition to CEO - implement review to assist with transition - Good Decision

2nd half implosion - expand review - Good decision

Review raises broader coaching issues - consider implications and discuss with coach - Good decision

Consider coaches response v Review results - sack coach - Good decision.

Not go on a broader search for coach - (unless no-one else put their hand up which may be a distinct possibility) - Bad decision

 

[bergholt]

bergholt made a good point about waiting until trade period was over but you would think Ratten could keep that quiet

Nah the second you tell him his manager leaks it to the media to build public sympathy - which is what happened when we did tell him. Or even if they don’t, the second he applies for another job then that person leaks it. Can’t keep something like this quiet.

 

[George]

Nah the second you tell him his manager leaks it to the media to build public sympathy - which is what happened when we did tell him. Or even if they don’t, the second he applies for another job then that person leaks it. Can’t keep something like this quiet.

Yeah fair point

 

[Joffaboy]

I don’t care what anyone thinks, I believe Lyon is the best coach in the AFL. If it wasn’t for the s**t show of S&C department at Freo:

• We wld have won several premierships doing his tenure
• His rebuild would have been complete within four years
• He would have never been sacked.

If you get Lyon, St Kilda will be 2nd favourite team. You guys will be box office. I am very jealous. My coach can barely string 2 words together.

Good luck!!!

It has been mentioned on here that Freo is reaping benefits now from the Lyon rebuild.

And a sandgroper who is a NRL Bulldogs supporter and a Leeds guy can't be too bad.

 

[plugger66]

You’ve been very quiet over this whole episode. What do you think about Ross coming back?

I didn’t like ratten getting the sack but grant thomas had it right. You don’t make one mistake and then make 2 by not sacking him. It was an unbelievably strong decision because they would have known the crap they would cop. Lyon has a great coaching record except for no flags. I don’t buy this rubbish about how he left us or is to defensive or can’t develop a lost or has been out of the game to long however if people think it’s an instant fix they are living in fantasyland. The list is average and even with improvement which will come it’s not a top 4 list.

 

[#gosaintas]

I didn’t like ratten getting the sack but grant thomas had it right. You don’t make one mistake and then make 2 by not sacking him. It was an unbelievably strong decision because they would have known the crap they would cop. Lyon has a great coaching record except for no flags. I don’t buy this rubbish about how he left us or is to defensive or can’t develop a lost or has been out of the game to long however if people think it’s an instant fix they are living in fantasyland. The list is average and even with improvement which will come it’s not a top 4 list.

not 1 person has said it's a top 4 list

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Genuinely fascinated to see what sort of access Lyon will allow the media department. It’s par of the course for all clubs for pretty much unfiltered access now like we got with Ratten. Seeing him operate behind the scenes would be amazing but I can’t see him allowing the same amount as been recently. His work in the media may have changed him a lot though.

Imagining him having to do a members video after a shit loss is pretty hilarious.

 

[George]

Genuinely fascinated to see what sort of access Lyon will allow the media department. It’s par of the course for all clubs for pretty much unfiltered access now like we got with Ratten. Seeing him operate behind the scenes would be amazing but I can’t see him allowing the same amount as been recently. His work in the media may have changed him a lot though.

Imagining him having to do a members video after a s**t loss is pretty hilarious.

Same here mate, really want to see it aswell. Would be great for Ross to let us in a bit more this time around.

 

[PandaG]

I heard Lethlean brought flowers (white lilies) to the first meeting with Ratts where he was told about Seek.com so
that showed some level of respect I would have thought.

As long as they set up the account on seek for him and gave him a 6month free subscription I can’t see any problems

 

[stavro#4]

Same here mate, really want to see it aswell. Would be great for Ross to let us in a bit more this time around.

Is this abit of a myth that evolved over time?

The bubble was created post 09.

We had the Lovett debacle. The Roo injury.

The expectation from 09’ that we carried and had to deal with.

It was the beginning of almost constant bad news for 36 months.

And it wasn’t like there was great media content prior to this. That all came later.

there is also still the fact, Lyon still okayed mission writing a book on the experience.

 

[sammm]

I don’t care what anyone thinks, I believe Lyon is the best coach in the AFL. If it wasn’t for the s**t show of S&C department at Freo:

• We wld have won several premierships doing his tenure
• His rebuild would have been complete within four years
• He would have never been sacked.

If you get Lyon, St Kilda will be 2nd favourite team. You guys will be box office. I am very jealous. My coach can barely string 2 words together.

Good luck!!!

Purple Maverick It's true that I have a hard time listening to your coach. But I am very unsure about the rest. Lyon did begin to go down the path of rebuilding your team probably kicking and screaming.

 

[sammm]

I didnt pay much attention to Ratten at Carlton but seeing him go about it with this playing group he feels like Richo all over. The nice guy mentor has a place for sure but theres a time for it and there can be too much of it, could be a massive culture shock to the guys who have been around since the start of Richo era.

Richo was totally different. He bought in assistant coaches without talking to anyone, he did lots of things outside of his control. Everyone was glad to get rid of him

 

[Stickman90]

.

Not go on a broader search for coach - (unless no-one else put their hand up which may be a distinct possibility) - Bad decision

How much broader wouldve you liked saints to look? Theres what might be 2 or 3 others that may have been interested and capable of coaching at that level.

They have had a review and identified what they needed and set out to get the person(s) that fit that bill.

On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

I didn’t like ratten getting the sack but grant thomas had it right. You don’t make one mistake and then make 2 by not sacking him. It was an unbelievably strong decision because they would have known the crap they would cop. Lyon has a great coaching record except for no flags. I don’t buy this rubbish about how he left us or is to defensive or can’t develop a lost or has been out of the game to long however if people think it’s an instant fix they are living in fantasyland. The list is average and even with improvement which will come it’s not a top 4 list.

I think he improves us immediately. It will depend how much others improve around us but we should play finals.

 

[stavro#4]

Summary of this weeks media

 

[pebblesofsand]

not 1 person has said it's a top 4 list

Ahh - no - for the past couple of years I've always said its clearly been a Top 4 list.

At this level of elite sport, especially one like the AFL which has so many equalisation factors built into its structure, the difference between the quality of the lists is not as great as many make out. Four different premiers in the last 5 years is testament to that.

Agree that Geelong was well ahead of the rest this year, but nobody can convince me that our list is substantially worse than Sydney, Brisbane or Collingwood. Has different weaknesses and strengths but is not substantially worse.

The key difference between a Top 4 team and Top 10 team is primarily above the shoulders and that is usually a direct consequence of increased confidence through teams having complete buy in to the structure and systems that are in place.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Nah the second you tell him his manager leaks it to the media to build public sympathy - which is what happened when we did tell him. Or even if they don’t, the second he applies for another job then that person leaks it. Can’t keep something like this quiet.

You could tell it wasn't someone at the club who leaked it. The moment Ratts was told after that meeting on Thursday night it got out

 

[Saintbloke]

Looks like RL is coming, but jeez I'm not convinced it will work. I get a feeling of delusion by the club and some supporters. Last time I checked, RL's best work was with a Saints team of 12 or more years ago, and Freo 7 years ago- when he had a lot more fire in his belly.
He hadn't got a team into the finals in his last four years of coaching and then got sacked. Do we think dragging back memories of the past will work? I was really hoping to see a new younger coach come on board, but so be it.

 

[jwikked]

za

not 1 person has said it's a top 4 list

i think it’s top 4 capable. If we are firing on all cylinders we can absolutely match the top teams and beat some.

 

[#gosaintas]

Ahh - no - for the past couple of years I've always said its clearly been a Top 4 list.

At this level of elite sport, especially one like the AFL which has so many equalisation factors built into its structure, the difference between the quality of the lists is not as great as many make out. Four different premiers in the last 5 years is testament to that.

Agree that Geelong was well ahead of the rest this year, but nobody can convince me that our list is substantially worse than Sydney, Brisbane or Collingwood. Has different weaknesses and strengths but is not substantially worse.

The key difference between a Top 4 team and Top 10 team is primarily above the shoulders and that is usually a direct consequence of increased confidence through teams having complete buy in to the structure and systems that are in place.

ok - apart from you I think the AFL world is united (which is pretty rare) in the belief that we don't have a top 4 list.

 

[gubby88]

ok - apart from you I think the AFL world is united (which is pretty rare) in the belief that we don't have a top 4 list.

They were also united that Richmond didn't have a top 4 list in 2016, Collingwood had a bottom 4 list last year, Geelong would fall off a cliff this year and that essendon would be top 8.....

The united footy world has about as much clue as us....

On SM-F711B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

I think it could be top four with no injuries and everyone playing to their full potential under a decent game style/plan