No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[Darkhour]

Why should I simplify it? It was a complicated issue and nuance is important. Pretty silly way to assess a situation by saying "good coach signed, bad coach sacked" lol. There's a process between those two points and that's what is being discussed.

I ask you again - if the review pointed to Ratten as an issue, why did Bassat tell him his job was safe before the review was finished? If Bassat knew Ratten's job was finished in September, why did he wait four weeks to let him know that? Why did Bassat give a guy 4 days to save a job he was getting sacked from regardless?

Nobody is towing a media line mate, this is all coming from the club.

Time you let it go like you said you were going to earlier George lol.. we're all on the same team here. You're obviously unbending in your view, so lets just agree to disagree.

 

[bergholt]

That's true. We can only go by what they've said publicly and to me that's involved a lot of flip-flopping and it has come across to me as unprofessional.

I haven't followed the last 100 pages or so but "flip-flopping" is a weird concept journos love because they've never had to make a harder decision that where to go for lunch.

The classic Keynes/Churchill/Samuelson/whoever quote is relevant here:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

What journos call "flip-flopping" is making a better decision as more evidence becomes available. Those who've had to make decisions in the face of serious uncertainty (like when running a footy club or any other organisation) soon understand that you can't always be right and the worst thing to do when you realise you've made a mistake is be too scared to acknowledge it and fix it.

Bassat realised he'd made a bad call. He fixed it. I have no idea how that was done or if it was "fair" to Ratten (not sure exactly what fair is when getting fired with no chance of reprieve) but that's clearly the right thing to do imo.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

it's george vs the forum again

glad to see nothings changed <3

 

[Darkhour]

it's george vs the forum again

glad to see nothings changed <3

I blame the media..

 

[George]

Time you let it go like you said you were going to earlier George lol.. we're all on the same team here. You're obviously unbending in your view, so lets just agree to disagree.

Might want to tell the others that keep quoting me because all I've been doing is responding to them.

It's not the end of the world but hopefully it isn't lost on those at the club and they make an effort to do better.

 

[King_Steele]

Juggernaut.

 

[bergholt]

I ask you again - if the review pointed to Ratten as an issue, why did Bassat tell him his job was safe before the review was finished? If Bassat knew Ratten's job was finished in September, why did he wait four weeks to let him know that? Why did Bassat give a guy 4 days to save a job he was getting sacked from regardless?

Those answers are pretty simple, aren't they?

- He told him he was safe because he needed him to believe that to keep performing in his role as coach. I've done the same. If you tell someone they might be up for the chop then they often shit the bed and stop doing what the org needs of them - clearly unacceptable of the senior coach in a footy club.

- He waited four weeks to let him know so that the club had stability through trade period and so that they could get their ducks in a row with planning for a replacement.

- He gave him 4 days to save his job probably for legal/HR reasons of procedural fairness. That sounds like the sort of thing lawyers love to make you do to cover your arse during a termination.

 

[George]

it's george vs the forum again

glad to see nothings changed <3

Haha, we're having a respectful discussion about what we believe should've happened. No personal attacks, just a good back and forth. I find it interesting that whenever I'm involved in a discussion I'm the one told to stop as opposed to anyone else - I am not talking to myself lol.

 

[Sun Ra]

Might want to tell the others that keep quoting me because all I've been doing is responding to them.

It's not the end of the world but hopefully it isn't lost on those at the club and they make an effort to do better.

We all need to do better.

 

[Joffaboy]

Settle down, can't you see George is a bit upset about this ?

FWIW, I wasn't directing my post toward any one particular poster, just my opinion.

Has been a little devisive as is any coach sacking. Personally believe it has been handled as well as it could be in the circumstances.

 

[gringo2011]

So why did Bassat wait a month after finding out Ratten was going to be sacked before telling him?

Lmao, you can only spin it so much. They said he was safe, this came out directly from the club. Not the media.

We would have been Essendon if we hadn't lined up Ross. I'd rather stay stable internally than be nice. Ruthless is the new Saints modus operandi. Machiavellian is better than captain cuck.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Juggernaut.
View attachment 1541313

I was really quite bullish about him - for a few minutes anyway.
Shows how much I know

 

[George]

I haven't followed the last 100 pages or so but "flip-flopping" is a weird concept journos love because they've never had to make a harder decision that where to go for lunch.

The classic Keynes/Churchill/Samuelson/whoever quote is relevant here:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

What journos call "flip-flopping" is making a better decision as more evidence becomes available. Those who've had to make decisions in the face of serious uncertainty (like when running a footy club or any other organisation) soon understand that you can't always be right and the worst thing to do when you realise you've made a mistake is be too scared to acknowledge it and fix it.

Bassat realised he'd made a bad call. He fixed it. I have no idea how that was done or if it was "fair" to Ratten (not sure exactly what fair is when getting fired with no chance of reprieve) but that's clearly the right thing to do imo.

He told him his job was safe before the review had determined it, lol. He waited a month to tell him what he had found out and then gave him 4 days to present a case he knew he'd lose. Doesn't seem very professional to me.

Those answers are pretty simple, aren't they?

- He told him he was safe because he needed him to believe that to keep performing in his role as coach. I've done the same. If you tell someone they might be up for the chop then they often s**t the bed and stop doing what the org needs of them - clearly unacceptable of the senior coach in a footy club.

- He waited four weeks to let him know so that the club had stability through trade period and so that they could get their ducks in a row with planning for a replacement.

- He gave him 4 days to save his job probably for legal/HR reasons of procedural fairness. That sounds like the sort of thing lawyers love to make you do to cover your arse during a termination.

They are all good points and definitely food for thought. At the end of the day anything other than what the club has told us publicly is all guesswork so I prefer to judge them based on what they've told us. Bassat gave us a good timeline of events in last weeks presser, but for me it's raised some questions and criticisms that I feel are warranted. I don't want to get into this last bit but many on here have criticised Bassat in the past for his flip flopping. Ultimately I think he needs to do better at effectively communicating the happenings of the club to the clubs supporters. They need to show us they've got a handle on things, and for anyone that lines up what happened between July to now, and what was said about it from the club, it looks unprofessional and needs to improve IMO.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Those answers are pretty simple, aren't they?

- He told him he was safe because he needed him to believe that to keep performing in his role as coach. I've done the same. If you tell someone they might be up for the chop then they often s**t the bed and stop doing what the org needs of them - clearly unacceptable of the senior coach in a footy club.

- He waited four weeks to let him know so that the club had stability through trade period and so that they could get their ducks in a row with planning for a replacement.

- He gave him 4 days to save his job probably for legal/HR reasons of procedural fairness. That sounds like the sort of thing lawyers love to make you do to cover your arse during a termination.

Succinctly put,
And actually pretty well planned and thought out when you see it like that.

 

[George]

We would have been Essendon if we hadn't lined up Ross. I'd rather stay stable internally than be nice. Ruthless is the new Saints modus operandi. Machiavellian is better than captain cuck.

Ultimately I want the club to be clear in what is happening and if anything changes then come out and be clear about that too. Bassat has to improve in this area IMO.

For what it's worth I think he is taking us in the right direction but like anyone there is areas to improve and feel this is one of his.

 

[gringo2011]

I remember when Richo was really struggling he called the club out for lack of support. The club responded by bringing in Ratts. A year later and Richo was gone, Ratts was in the big seat, but no one filled his void.

I said it at the time but Ratts was on shaky ground when he basically said everything going wrong in the second half of the season was on the players not following coaches. You never seperate yourself from your charges unless you want to burn relationships.

 

[Darkhour]

Soooo.. whats the odds that the 'Lyon made St Kilda coach" presser comes out Monday?

 

[gringo2011]

Selwood and Dangerfield were huge in the Preliminary final and Danger just about won the Norm Smith Medal so I dunno about that.

Definitely kept them to unleash on finals but the both were kept for bigger battles.

 

[gringo2011]

The trouble now with the Cats , is they have Hawkins who has been playing his best football the last few years and Cameron now fit and firing and one of them will always perform and guys like Bilcavs , Stewart always get the a job done.

So much of their talent is ancient. Even with their refresh I think in a year or two the cliff comes. They went older than in the last 10 years to have one last crack. I have been saying this for a long time though.

 

[Sun Ra]

Definitely kept them to unleash on finals but the both were kept for bigger battles.

Bigger battles ? Like what ? Mad Monday ?

 

[my name was taken]

Juggernaut.
View attachment 1541313

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Played around on Lyons contract and this was the prize

 

[Premium]

So much of their talent is ancient. Even with their refresh I think in a year or two the cliff comes. They went older than in the last 10 years to have one last crack. I have been saying this for a long time though.

They might get lucky and pick up a few good kids in the draft to take the wheel from Selwood , Dangerfield , Duncan , Menigola , Guthrie , Higgins , Hawkins , Smith , Bilcav's.
De Konning look's to be a star of the future , but they will need players to fill some big holes that will becoming.

 

[bergholt]

Ultimately I think he needs to do better at effectively communicating the happenings of the club to the clubs supporters. They need to show us they've got a handle on things, and for anyone that lines up what happened between July to now, and what was said about it from the club, it looks unprofessional and needs to improve IMO.

Definitely agree communication can improve. That said it's a hard balance to find. You don't want to say "the list is crap, we're starting again" because that demotivates the players and kills your memberships. Equally you don't want to say "we're a flag chance" because everyone knows that's bullshit. I don't envy them trying to find the middle ground which is frank but also positive - the appointment of RTB is probably the best thing they could do for that tbh.

 

[George]

Definitely agree communication can improve. That said it's a hard balance to find. You don't want to say "the list is crap, we're starting again" because that demotivates the players and kills your memberships. Equally you don't want to say "we're a flag chance" because everyone knows that's bullshit. I don't envy them trying to find the middle ground which is frank but also positive - the appointment of RTB is probably the best thing they could do for that tbh.

Agree on that, I think in this instance it wasn't about selling memberships and hope to supporters it was more just about clear communication. Seems like it needs to improve internally too given he told Ratten he was safe before the review was even conducted. He didn't need to say anything to Ratten, he just signed the guy to a 2 year extension. Leaves me thinking WTF is going on down there.

 

[MrFoster]

Ultimately I want the club to be clear in what is happening and if anything changes then come out and be clear about that too. Bassat has to improve in this area IMO.

For what it's worth I think he is taking us in the right direction but like anyone there is areas to improve and feel this is one of his.

Can we all move on please, the last 20 pages was arguing about how the sacking can be handled better.. It’s a sacking… Sounded like they were reluctant to re-sign Ratts at mid-season even , but given we were 8-3 and looked on the way to make finals.. because they promised to give Ratts an answer mid-season, they had to pull the trigger.. As with the sacking, we finished the season horribly, playing bottom 4 football.. So sacking is deserved.. the timing and approach will depend on lots of things we are not privy to.. so why even bother speculating.

Can we all try to get excited about a new beginning.. Some people like Ratts as coach, lots of other people on this forum don’t.. let’s just agree to disagree..

Would rather discuss how many wins next year is a pass mark for Ross the boss? I’d say 11 wins.. and a proper game plan/consistent performance.. of course we hope for a lot more wins than 11, even top 4.