No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[gringo2011]

Ahh - no - for the past couple of years I've always said its clearly been a Top 4 list.

At this level of elite sport, especially one like the AFL which has so many equalisation factors built into its structure, the difference between the quality of the lists is not as great as many make out. Four different premiers in the last 5 years is testament to that.

Agree that Geelong was well ahead of the rest this year, but nobody can convince me that our list is substantially worse than Sydney, Brisbane or Collingwood. Has different weaknesses and strengths but is not substantially worse.

The key difference between a Top 4 team and Top 10 team is primarily above the shoulders and that is usually a direct consequence of increased confidence through teams having complete buy in to the structure and systems that are in place.

I sort of agree. I think Geelong has an ordinary list but with lots of experience and drilled in every scenario. Brisbane has more talent than a lot of the others on that list, Sydney has a lot of youth and is likely to be a very good list with time. The 2022 Richmond side looked worse than ours. Collingwood have an elite backline, very ordinary midfield and a few really good forwards who score easily.

I still think we have more than enough quality and the age profile to be in that 3 to 8 range of sides and with a coach that gets the most out of what we have we should have gone further. Now we have to wait and see how the players that we have respond to Ross Lyon.

It was a soft year and I expect a bit of ladder fluctuation next year as a few solidify and a few drop back. I don't think I'd set a limit on this side with a good coach. We aren't miles off top 4 but need to develop a few to be consistent A graders first.

 

[bird_man]

Looks like RL is coming, but jeez I'm not convinced it will work. I get a feeling of delusion by the club and some supporters. Last time I checked, RL's best work was with a Saints team of 12 or more years ago, and Freo 7 years ago- when he had a lot more fine in his belly.
He hadn't got a team into the finals in his last four years of coaching and then got sacked. Do we think dragging back memories of the past will work? I was really hoping to see a new younger coach come on board, but so be it.

What make you think he doesn't have fire in his belly?

He was rebuilding the Fremantle list when he was sacked, hence the lack of finals.

Same goes for Clarkson who was going through a similar phase at Hawthorn.

 

[gubby88]

I sort of agree. I think Geelong has an ordinary list but with lots of experience and drilled in every scenario. Brisbane has more talent than a lot of the others on that list, Sydney has a lot of youth and is likely to be a very good list with time. The 2022 Richmond side looked worse than ours. Collingwood have an elite backline, very ordinary midfield and a few really good forwards who score easily.

I still think we have more than enough quality and the age profile to be in that 3 to 8 range of sides and with a coach that gets the most out of what we have we should have gone further. Now we have to wait and see how the players that we have respond to Ross Lyon.

It was a soft year and I expect a bit of ladder fluctuation next year as a few solidify and a few drop back. I don't think I'd set a limit on this side with a good coach. We aren't miles off top 4 but need to develop a few to be consistent A graders first.

True, it's not often you get 2 teams with a % of 50 for most of the year in North and West Coast. That was a fair anomaly....one that the top 4 teams seemed to play twice each

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[gringo2011]

I think it could be top four with no injuries and everyone playing to their full potential under a decent game style/plan

Steele and Gresham don't get injured I reckon Ratts plays finals and we don't change coaches. Steele going out cost us finals, we lost confidence and momentum and never got back on track. People laughed when I said it at the time but if we'd had Dunstan in reserve we probably don't lose the momentum that Steele cost us.......Dunny might have lost Ratts his job in a funny round about way.

 

[gubby88]

What make you think he doesn't have fire in his belly?

He was rebuilding the Fremantle list when he was sacked, hence the lack of finals.

Same goes for Clarkson who was going through a similar phase at Hawthorn.

I don't think clarkson was rebuilding as much as torpedoing the hawthorn list.

Bringing in omeara, Mitchell and wingard with 4 first round picks in 3 years was a complete disaster.

Mind you, I hope they have good recruiters, because they gave away alot of talent for next to nothing this year ala stkilda in 2013

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[gringo2011]

I don't think clarkson was rebuilding as much as torpedoing the hawthorn list.

Bringing in omeara, Mitchell and wingard with 4 first round picks in 3 years was a complete disaster.

Mind you, I hope they have good recruiters, because they gave away alot of talent for next to nothing this year ala stkilda in 2013

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They are rolling the dice.

 

[Bertha]

za

i think it’s top 4 capable. If we are firing on all cylinders we can absolutely match the top teams and beat some.

+1

We're still the last team to beat the Cats. We had good wins against top 8 teams which is more than some top 8 sides were able to do.

 

[AirWinmar]

Steele and Gresham don't get injured I reckon Ratts plays finals and we don't change coaches. Steele going out cost us finals, we lost confidence and momentum and never got back on track. People laughed when I said it at the time but if we'd had Dunstan in reserve we probably don't lose the momentum that Steele cost us.......Dunny might have lost Ratts his job in a funny round about way.

You could say the same for last year. I reckon 1 more big loss and it would have been curtains for Ratts. We got belted in 4 games in the 1st half of the year after making finals the year before, it was looking grim.

 

[AirWinmar]

Genuinely fascinated to see what sort of access Lyon will allow the media department. It’s par of the course for all clubs for pretty much unfiltered access now like we got with Ratten. Seeing him operate behind the scenes would be amazing but I can’t see him allowing the same amount as been recently. His work in the media may have changed him a lot though.

Imagining him having to do a members video after a s**t loss is pretty hilarious.

1 thing that is certain with Lyon, is that at the very least our post game pressers will be the best they've been in 10 years. He is always entertaining to listen to

 

[bird_man]

I don't think clarkson was rebuilding as much as torpedoing the hawthorn list.

Bringing in omeara, Mitchell and wingard with 4 first round picks in 3 years was a complete disaster.

Mind you, I hope they have good recruiters, because they gave away alot of talent for next to nothing this year ala stkilda in 2013

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You are going back a fair way with Mitchell and O'Meara. That was 6 years ago now.

You are correct in saying that they did stuff their list with those trades but they were top 4 after trading in Mtchell and O'Meara and took Wingard at the end of that season (2018)

Over his last couple of years at Hawthorn he was definitely rebuilding though.

 

[No77778]

I used to be a bit involved with the Auto industry when we had one.
Someone at Holden told me they tried to never change the drivetrain and the car platform at the same time. That's because when you make big changes you have problems, and you have to work to fix them.
So when the first Commodores came out, they still had the old Kingswood/Torana drive train.
When the new VR came out they were forced ( economic factors with the Nissan engine ) to change both, and it was a disaster.

This year we've changed Finnis, Ratten, and some assistant coaches.
I just hope its not too much.

in some ways we have gone back to a good old 202 (RTB) and ripped out some new bullshit full of electrics and pollution controls (Ratts)
Just got to give it a quick tune up and we are away!

 

[joop]

za

i think it’s top 4 capable. If we are firing on all cylinders we can absolutely match the top teams and beat some.

I think we’ll win the flag with Ross the Boss at the helm.

 

[gringo2011]

in some ways we have gone back to a good old 202 (RTB) and ripped out some new bullshit full of electrics and pollution controls (Ratts)
Just got to give it a quick tune up and we are away!

I reckon Ross was more something finely tuned and German where Ratts is more like an old 186 Red motor. Basic and a bit dated. Not much top end, easy to work out and reasonably reliable. Just don't try to drag off guys in better cars.

Ross has double overhead cams and variably timing, injection systems that look like you need a computer science background to find the plugs etc. He's been sitting locked up in the garage but as long as you get all the parts back in their place and tune it all, it should still keep up with anything on the road.

 

[Joffaboy]

Steele and Gresham don't get injured I reckon Ratts plays finals and we don't change coaches. Steele going out cost us finals, we lost confidence and momentum and never got back on track. People laughed when I said it at the time but if we'd had Dunstan in reserve we probably don't lose the momentum that Steele cost us.......Dunny might have lost Ratts his job in a funny round about way.

Dunstan would not have got us to the finals doesn't matter how many times you say it. We got to the finals once in the seven years he was at the club and he was injured for the 2020 season.
It was not losing one or two good players, it was the mental weakness of the team, list, and club in general. Said it the second after the disaster of Essendon.
I said it will reflect directly on he coaches on how the team responds. Well it didn't respond and went from bad to worse. Mentally weak, the players were not getting the best out of themselves, Ratten couldn't change it up. Not good enough. I also couldn't see it changing.

Thank god we changed coaches. We now have a bit of hope.

 

[Cam Shenton]

Juggernaut.
View attachment 1541313

That’s inches right, he’s 18 inches tall.

 

[snails13]

We are in the lucky position of improving our coaching staff without being a club that's just bottomed out. We are right on the precipice of being a good side and the jump from that 6th-10rh bracket into a genuine contender is spoken about alot in terms of how difficult it is.

I reckon we would've won v Port and Essendon this year with Ross in charge. That gets us to 13 wins right there. I expect a marked improvement across the board next year and don't believe that we need a year to learn the gameplan either. We are right there, with some tweaks and more accountability from the playing group we could surprise a few.

Looking forward to getting down to open training over the summer and seeing the differences. Fact that the players are already reaching out to guys who played under Ross is a good sign. They don't need to be back until November 22nd either but a group of them were at the club last week training.

Should have won at the Gabba as well

 

[gringo2011]

Dunstan would not have got us to the finals doesn't matter how many times you say it. We got to the finals once in the seven years he was at the club and he was injured for the 2020 season.
It was not losing one or two good players, it was the mental weakness of the team, list, and club in general. Said it the second after the disaster of Essendon.
I said it will reflect directly on he coaches on how the team responds. Well it didn't respond and went from bad to worse. Mentally weak, the players were not getting the best out of themselves, Ratten couldn't change it up. Not good enough. I also couldn't see it changing.

Thank god we changed coaches. We now have a bit of hope.

Ratts was no good but I still reckon losing Steele was the point that the wheels fell off. 1 win and percentage off 8th spot. Win 2 games in that bank of games or don't get smashed by Essendon and don't lose momentum and who knows. Same with Gresham late. Not having someone that could cover means that we play a player down in a side that needs all of it's players going to be competitive.

 

[Cam Shenton]

I heard yesterday that Ross will be announced tomorrow, the main point of negotiation was how much input certain members of the board had in to the football department. Thought that was interesting.

 

[The_Steadier]

That’s inches right, he’s 18 inches tall.

No they are the flags we were gonna win under him.

2015-2018 4peat

 

[Darkhour]

I heard yesterday that Ross will be announced tomorrow, the main point of negotiation was how much input certain members of the board had in to the football department. Thought that was interesting.

And thats fair enough... better to be transparent and upfront in order to path a way forward that works in the clubs overall best interests...

 

[plugger66]

not 1 person has said it's a top 4 list

Yes they certainly have. That’s fact and it was on here.

 

[plugger66]

I think he improves us immediately. It will depend how much others improve around us but we should play finals.

Not sure about that and not because others around us will improve. He will change things up and that can take a season or so. The list isn’t a certain finals list as it is. The midfield is the issue and to be a finals list it needs owens windhanger and Milera to improve so we can move or drop those same same mids. Not gettting degoey was huge in a bad way.

 

[lewdogs]

The aim will be to play finals but it shouldn't matter if we miss. As in, Ross will be given time.

If we are to eventually push to top four then it will come down to the improvement of the youngsters.

 

[PostmanBish]

Also I personally think the list is better than at least the media thinks also and agree that the gameplan, as King would say (one of the few times I agree with him), was fraudulent. In 2020 we had a gameplan of kicking it forward into space ahead of our high forward which worked at the time but hasn't the last 2 years. Otherwise it was simple and kick high to Max, but it's very reliant on him marking and/or spilling the ball to our smalls which were inconsistant as a result of this gameplan. We need to tighten up our defense to the point someone like Max can take finals games by the scruff of the neck and be that offensive point of difference, not the required weekly norm to win.

Our list (barring a Dusty/Cripps type) is more than solid enough for Ross Lyon to work with. With higher standards a given, we're consistency and gameplan away from finals.

You'd think that players like Steele, Sinclair, DMac, Wilkie, Membrey and Battle would be extremely responsive to an RTB regime ... if he can get the young guns (Windhager/NWM/Owens/King) to commit, we'll have enough players to drag the rest of the squad into line.

I think Windhager will be a player who emerges rapidly under RTB, because he'll willingly go out and twist the screws on anyone Ross tells him to stop - so he'll be a key player in the strategies I expect we'll see. Bytel might also emerge into a player with guidance from Lenny Hayes.

I'd like to see our ball movement and defensive pressure improve to the point where King rarely needs to get more than 60m from goal ... imagine a world where we could say "If you see the ball in St Kilda hands, start leading back towards the square, and we'll hit you"

 

[MUFKilda]

Yes they certainly have. That’s fact and it was on here.

You and I are the dream ticket, big man. Together we would make Saints a juggernaut of success. Think the 2009 team with the 1980s don't give a **** Aussie zest for life. We're drinking VB on the touchline as we win flag by 150 points, mullets flailing in the breeze.