Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[DAZZA_75]

Longmire just cares about pressure around the ball and pressure ratings and seemingly chipping it sideways constantly

Where was our pressure in the 2nd quarter
Sydney 151
Brisbane 207

Absolutely pathetic, this loss was worse than 2022

 

[MarkP]

Not to worry.

It was just an unswanslike performance and it won't happen again.

 

[Rhino5]

The thing that bothers me too is that “bringing pressure” or being better at the contest (as Horse puts it) are two of the most basic things a team can do. It has nothing to do with game plan or strategy and everything to do with effort and intensity.

Now those things can be lacking a bit from game to game (or within a game) over the course of a season, but you can sometimes put it down to the grind, playing down to opposition etc. What is the excuse when it’s the biggest game of the year and everything is on the line?

I would never accuse players of “not trying” because that simply isn’t true - the players badly want to win - but I just don’t know what leads to the group collectively coming out flat and listless like that. It was a problem all year in first quarters but I thought we’d fixed that to some extent at least.

Maybe you could say we were ok very early on (we did lead 13-2) and in the second quarter once they got a run on, we couldn’t stop that wave of momentum (we all know how hard that is in modern footy) and mistakes compounded, players panicked, skill errors became more costly etc…and it all just collapsed in a heap. But the drop-off was alarmingly swift. As a team we don’t seem to have a way to arrest momentum and some of that is coaching.

The lack of composure around the ground is the biggest thing for me - where does that come from?

Anyway, I don’t know why I’m still thinking about it.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Swans lost it psychologically.
It was clearly evident within the first 10 minutes. Hack kicks into the forward line with no smooth, calm ball movement. There was an absence of physically.
It was weak, timid an looked unprepared. Players were panicking. There was no leadership.
The Swans gave up.
They didn’t attempt to fight back.
Repeat humiliation in Grand Finals is club destroying.
They will not be playing finals in 2025.

Thank you, Oracle of Delphi.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Where did they get us ?

?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

They would of done better today imo.

So what? They didn't. They didn't even make the eight.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Commiserations

That would have been a really tough watch.

 

[swanssince2002]

I know the game was already lost by then, but I also noticed in the 4th quarter when Papley was trying to get it forward, he was literally surrounded by an umbrella of Lions players. He had to handball it back and eventually the Lions scored a goal 30 seconds later. He was at halfback as well and surely something would open up.

What the frick was going on there? I think that passage summed up the day.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The thing that bothers me too is that “bringing pressure” or being better at the contest (as Horse puts it) are two of the most basic things a team can do. It has nothing to do with game plan or strategy and everything to do with effort and intensity.

Now those things can be lacking a bit from game to game (or within a game) over the course of a season, but you can sometimes put it down to the grind, playing down to opposition etc. What is the excuse when it’s the biggest game of the year and everything is on the line?

I would never accuse players of “not trying” because that simply isn’t true - the players badly want to win - but I just don’t know what leads to the group collectively coming out flat and listless like that. It was a problem all year in first quarters but I thought we’d fixed that to some extent at least.

Maybe you could say we were ok very early on (we did lead 13-2) and in the second quarter once they got a run on, we couldn’t stop that wave of momentum (we all know how hard that is in modern footy) and mistakes compounded, players panicked, skill errors became more costly etc…and it all just collapsed in a heap. But the drop-off was alarmingly swift. As a team we don’t seem to have a way to arrest momentum and some of that is coaching.

The lack of composure around the ground is the biggest thing for me - where does that come from?

Anyway, I don’t know why I’m still thinking about it.

Good post. My thoughts exactly.

 

[SeanM]

I rewatched the 2nd quarter. We were still only 11 points down with 8.41 left. Because Brisbane had wasted so many chances.

Then Daniher kicks the 1st goal and Ah Chee the next from the centre clearance. There were some tired efforts. Gulden is walking when there is a loose ball leading to the Daniher goal. There were two missed tackles in the centre clearance leading to the Ah Chee goal.

At 4.37 we are still only 23 points down. We screw up an attacking opportunity. Then Berry kicks a goal from the Blakey clearing kick, Hipwood kicks the fluke goal from the boundary and then Ah Chee kicks another goal from the centre clearance. (That is 3 goals in 80 seconds)

 

[Tedeski]

Why play Logan?

So as not to break his heart & miss his second GF.
It's the only reason I can find.
He apparently "didn't leave a walk" at the captain's run.

 

[SeanM]

So as not to break his heart & miss his second GF.
It's the only reason I can find.
He apparently "didn't leave a walk" at the captain's run.

But there were reports that Neale, Hipwood and Payne were not able to train properly and were not fully fit. But the rest of the team was able to play well and compensate for that.

In the future, people will look back at the loss and blame selecting an unfit Logan like selecting Sam Reid in 2022. But there were still 21 other players out there.

 

[ashep]

The second quarter onslaught rivalled what Melbourne did to the Bulldogs. Just no resistance whatsoever. Even when Grundy was getting his hand to it, they were bullying us off the ball and walking it out.

I've been kidding myself all year that we didn't need to be a dominant clearance team because we could destroy teams off the turnover. That may be true against much of the competition but you're putting your fate in the hands of the other team actually giving it back to you and with our defensive plan yesterday, that was never happening.

When the going got tough and you saw Parker, JPK and Hanners go to the centre bounce you knew we had 3 blokes that would fight tooth and nail to get that ball going our way. Our mids are superstars with ball in hand, and Rowy and Heeney are tough nuts but there is no substitute for throwing big bodies into the contest. Caesar, you were right, I was wrong.

I don't know where we go to from here. We have the talent to win 16 games again next year and we probably will. And if things go our way we can beat any team on our day. But our style is too fragile. One element doesn't work and we collapse in on ourselves. I just don't think I can go into next year as invested as I have been for the past decade.

 

[The King!]

I just saw live guys who couldn't do anything basic right and looked like they were scared/nervous mentally ****ed, We can say oh get better at clearances or man up in defence, or get more contested marks.

They could barely gather a ball, handball,lay a tackle, even run to compete, they look frightened.

We got the first two goals but kind of against flow and a bit arsey, Lions free against, Papley crumb.

I've seen neutrals say ground size is a thing, well Brisbane play at the Gabba, or our bottom 6 is shit, well is it? they got us here and our four all australains suck, pick Adams yeah right even if he fired he would have 0 around him, bit like Grundy.


If you cant keep your feet, if you have no awareness tackles are coming, if you are frightened/nervous in the moment you are stuffed.

Some neutrals say we will miss the finals, I don't know, its actually a talented side with youngsters coming through, probably finish top again and roll through the season and suck us all back in.


The zone defence and lack of movement forward of the ball were so glaring, just basics, non competitive, scared of the moment but also of Brisbane. Think we must focus so much on the dangers of the other team we try to avoid all the strengths, they bullied us, they broke tackles , they chased, led, ran , from their best to worst they were willing to work hard.

If you took Logan or Joel and chucked them in for Hipwood they probably snag a few goals.

This is like two sides, the Colliwobbles and the Cats early 90s.

The cats were always the underdog and second best sides and Probably unfortunate to face all time teams each time, they didnt defend at all and just tried to score more, though competed at least for a half usually.

The Colliwobbles is more like us, because until they all embraced it and admitted it was a thing they didnt do shit really.

I think this oh we are a great special group, we analysed the past and moved on, we prepared well, we don't know what happened, just abad day ...no this group just needs to admit and maybe publically, but at least to themselves, that this is now a thing. They have a problem on the big stage.

Because people outside and opposition fans say , stop making, oh my sides is better. No they aren't, over 23 games we are too good for the club's that didnt make it as we consistently show, the talent at the High end is good, even our so called suspect areas fire, I mean **** just last week we saw the talls fire well enough, this side has the talent, coaching gameplan aside it should at least be capable of competing on grand final day.

It would still sting to lose again but if Brisbane won a competitive contest and were too good on the day (well they were of course but you know what I mean) At least you could be proud the boys had a crack and did eveything they could. They gave us nothing for the third grand final in recent years from the start.


Long,pointless rant, I want to stop thinking and talking about it, just hard.


Brisbane though, they were ****ed multiple times this year, early on in the year, even on their run of wins, we were winning until late, they battled the Dees and Saints at home ffs, GWS had it won. But they found a way every time, their willingness to compete, run hard, work for each other and just keep calm and do the basics, defend well, lead and run hard to create options, move the ball and take risks (we stopped so much with ball and with leads etc) their movement, their prep, the never say die.

They exposed a fragility, from the first bounce, they knew what was at stake, body language was great, cant take nothing away from their brilliance.

 

[liz]

I come respectfully.

Honestly I don’t think anyone beats Brisbane today.

However it appeared like your team never showed up. I see it in finals with Port all the time.

I just don’t get it, how can so many players all collectively play so bad at the same time in the biggest of games?

The morning after the 2022 GF found myself in my hotel lift with a Geelong fan. He was very gracious and said he’d never seen the Cats play as well as that. I allowed that to feed into my personal narrative that we weren’t quite ready and were physically overwhelmed by a bigger, older side on a mission.

But having relived the nightmare so soon my perspective is different, not only on yesterday but on two years ago too. Any team looks like it can’t be beaten when the opposition doesn’t show up. We’d already beaten Geelong in 2022 and we fought out a tight loss against Brisbane just a couple of months ago.

Brisbane played superbly yesterday. I don’t question that. But we are capable of superb footy too, and that footy doesn’t allow the opposition to do as they please.

I don’t pretend to have any idea why we bottled it. Again. But I’m not buying into the “Lions were just too good” narrative.

 

[Jeffers]

The sad/funny thing is next year we could go undefeated till the grand final and we still won’t enjoy the ride because we know that they will have all the pressure to perform in the grand final and you know deep down inside they will still falter at the last hurdle and the sad thing is, it wouldn’t surprise us.

 

[Tedeski]

The thing that bothers me too is that “bringing pressure” or being better at the contest (as Horse puts it) are two of the most basic things a team can do. It has nothing to do with game plan or strategy and everything to do with effort and intensity.

Now those things can be lacking a bit from game to game (or within a game) over the course of a season, but you can sometimes put it down to the grind, playing down to opposition etc. What is the excuse when it’s the biggest game of the year and everything is on the line?

I would never accuse players of “not trying” because that simply isn’t true - the players badly want to win - but I just don’t know what leads to the group collectively coming out flat and listless like that. It was a problem all year in first quarters but I thought we’d fixed that to some extent at least.

Maybe you could say we were ok very early on (we did lead 13-2) and in the second quarter once they got a run on, we couldn’t stop that wave of momentum (we all know how hard that is in modern footy) and mistakes compounded, players panicked, skill errors became more costly etc…and it all just collapsed in a heap. But the drop-off was alarmingly swift. As a team we don’t seem to have a way to arrest momentum and some of that is coaching.

The lack of composure around the ground is the biggest thing for me - where does that come from?

Anyway, I don’t know why I’m still thinking about it.

We have no real leadership.
We looked to Rampe & Parker for some leadership when the game was lost but in fairness to these boys, they had their time & were removed from the co captaincy because it was clear to the coaches that they were nearing the end & needed to focus on their own performances near the end of their careers.

I have no problem with that.
So we were actually rudderless. No real leadership in the middle where it was needed.
The fact we have the new club psychologist sitting on the bench for when each play comes off & that it was regularly referred to throughout the season by players is damning. Our blokes are mentally cooked in these situations & that can't be fixed. We don't want this lot anywhere near another GF because they have been getting a biannual jab of a negative GF experience.
The only thing that can address it is get some hardness into the team from the top to the bottom.
Too much lovey dovey stuff with each of the players. Get on the front foot & let one of the loved ones go.
We know Parks is out.
Maybe throw Warner out there to see what we can get.
The last intimidating player we recruited was Mummy.
We are small in defence. I looked at Payne yesterday. He is huge. Neale is huge for a small mid.
Dunkley is huge & solid. Zorko is solid.

Our blokes?
Melican has trimmed down due to soft tissue injuries. McCartin still has his teenage body. So does Blakey.
Lloyd at 30 year is still tiny. Warner is fast but thin. Our boys get smashed in the contest. That's why our coaches have an outside gameplan to avoid them. But we always knew that finals are a different beast & Grand Finals go up a notch again.
The moment Horse changed to this attacking gameplan, our DNA of hardness went with it.

Ross Lyon gets smashed by many for his style but he knows only too well that in big games the contest is where it matters.
For us in the last 4 GFs, it's where we have been obliterated.

 

[The King!]

Theres no reason a faster running team or smaller team or whatever style wins you games all year can't win one more, But you have to actually execute it, you have to run, yiu have to actually be able to handball etc,

They could all pump weights and bulk up and win more clearances, still wont ****en matter if they are mentally ****ed which i think is the problem.

When Brisbane dominated touches early and marked our entries, I think the players and fans around at me at least, thought here we ****en go again!!

I just don't quite buy you can win 19-20 games one way but suddenly grand final day no no way.

 

[Tedeski]

But there were reports that Neale, Hipwood and Payne were not able to train properly and were not fully fit. But the rest of the team was able to play well and compensate for that.

In the future, people will look back at the loss and blame selecting an unfit Logan like selecting Sam Reid in 2022. But there were still 21 other players out there.

I have no doubt that the Lions played us with all of that.
We all knew their issues. We hid Heeney's issues publicly. That's where we lose respect.
We should have said it from the start of the finals that Heens had an ankle issue but will be jabbed up & play through it. Just like Neale. They said it & went through with it.
Heens at least would have been given the outside respect he deserved for performing with it.
Instead he is getting bashed throughout the game for being well held by Dunks when it was an ankle that stopped him.
I'd like to know that. Certain players can carry injuries, others cannot.McDonald for one.

 

[swanssince2002]

When Brisbane dominated touches early and marked our entries, I think the players and fans around at me at least, thought here we ****en go again!!

I just don't quite buy you can win 19-20 games one way but suddenly grand final day no no way.

It all started when Blakey missed some kicks he usually nails or at the very least make it a ground ball contest early on. But either it was way off target or it got marked by a Lions player. Another one was when the Lions tried to play tempo at halfback but then someone was just wide open in the middle running into space, leading to a goal. That never happens.

Lots of warning signs that led to the avalanche.

 

[The King!]

I have no doubt that the Lions played us with all of that.
We all knew their issues. We hid Heeney's issues publicly. That's where we lose respect.
We should have said it from the start of the finals that Heens had an ankle issue but will be jabbed up & play through it. Just like Neale. They said it & went through with it.
Heens at least would have been given the outside respect he deserved for performing with it.
Instead he is getting bashed throughout the game for being well held by Dunks when it was an ankle that stopped him.
I'd like to know that. Certain players can carry injuries, others cannot.McDonald for one.

We are very cagey on everything though .

 

[The King!]

It all started when Blakey missed some kicks he usually nails or at the very least make it a ground ball contest early o. But either it was way off target or it got marked by a Lions player. Another one was when the Lions tried to play tempo but then someone was just wide open in the middle leading to a goal. That never happens.

Lots of warning signs that led to the avalanche.

Blakey peeled off and had nothing to kick too.

I sat in a similar spot behind the goals v the crows a month ago. Ok that's a different game with way less pressure and inferior opposition of course.

But they didn't keep zoning off Tilthorpe, Tex, Fogarty.

When Blakey did peel off and run the mids were leading and moving and he had a target , yesterday I felt to be fair Roberts and Blakey were doing what they had done and peeling off but they had 0 targets then they look shit for mucking up.

Florent was in some negating role rather than attacking at all, Blakey restored to free kick staging,

Horse seemed like his entire focus was on zoning off or tagging or shutting down Lions space or tactics and he forgot to actually focus at all on Sydney's attack or strengths. Or the players didn't listen to him at all

Either way he is ****ed, he either has a terrible plan that's focused on odd defensive strategies or he can't get the side focused and playing well .

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I just saw live guys who couldn't do anything basic right and looked like they were scared/nervous mentally ****ed, We can say oh get better at clearances or man up in defence, or get more contested marks.

They could barely gather a ball, handball,lay a tackle, even run to compete, they look frightened.

We got the first two goals but kind of against flow and a bit arsey, Lions free against, Papley crumb.

I've seen neutrals say ground size is a thing, well Brisbane play at the Gabba, or our bottom 6 is shit, well is it? they got us here and our four all australains suck, pick Adams yeah right even if he fired he would have 0 around him, bit like Grundy.


If you cant keep your feet, if you have no awareness tackles are coming, if you are frightened/nervous in the moment you are stuffed.

Some neutrals say we will miss the finals, I don't know, its actually a talented side with youngsters coming through, probably finish top again and roll through the season and suck us all back in.


The zone defence and lack of movement forward of the ball were so glaring, just basics, non competitive, scared of the moment but also of Brisbane. Think we must focus so much on the dangers of the other team we try to avoid all the strengths, they bullied us, they broke tackles , they chased, led, ran , from their best to worst they were willing to work hard.

If you took Logan or Joel and chucked them in for Hipwood they probably snag a few goals.

This is like two sides, the Colliwobbles and the Cats early 90s.

The cats were always the underdog and second best sides and Probably unfortunate to face all time teams each time, they didnt defend at all and just tried to score more, though competed at least for a half usually.

The Colliwobbles is more like us, because until they all embraced it and admitted it was a thing they didnt do shit really.

I think this oh we are a great special group, we analysed the past and moved on, we prepared well, we don't know what happened, just abad day ...no this group just needs to admit and maybe publically, but at least to themselves, that this is now a thing. They have a problem on the big stage.

Because people outside and opposition fans say , stop making, oh my sides is better. No they aren't, over 23 games we are too good for the club's that didnt make it as we consistently show, the talent at the High end is good, even our so called suspect areas fire, I mean **** just last week we saw the talls fire well enough, this side has the talent, coaching gameplan aside it should at least be capable of competing on grand final day.

It would still sting to lose again but if Brisbane won a competitive contest and were too good on the day (well they were of course but you know what I mean) At least you could be proud the boys had a crack and did eveything they could. They gave us nothing for the third grand final in recent years from the start.


Long,pointless rant, I want to stop thinking and talking about it, just hard.


Brisbane though, they were ****ed multiple times this year, early on in the year, even on their run of wins, we were winning until late, they battled the Dees and Saints at home ffs, GWS had it won. But they found a way every time, their willingness to compete, run hard, work for each other and just keep calm and do the basics, defend well, lead and run hard to create options, move the ball and take risks (we stopped so much with ball and with leads etc) their movement, their prep, the never say die.

They exposed a fragility, from the first bounce, they knew what was at stake, body language was great, cant take nothing away from their brilliance.

Not pointless at all mate, great post and good thoughts.

 

[The King!]

So as not to break his heart & miss his second GF.
It's the only reason I can find.
He apparently "didn't leave a walk" at the captain's run.

I think Logan's ankle got worse as the game went to shit

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Maybe Taylor Adams should have played given we don't have experience playing GFs.T

Swans lost it psychologically.
It was clearly evident within the first 10 minutes. Hack kicks into the forward line with no smooth, calm ball movement. There was an absence of physically.
It was weak, timid an looked unprepared. Players were panicking. There was no leadership.
The Swans gave up.
They didn’t attempt to fight back.
Repeat humiliation in Grand Finals is club destroying.
They will not be playing finals in 2025.

Am absence of leadership basically sums up the game.