Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[Bandicoot]

Interesting to think back to 86/87 we were the best Swans teams ever and went 0 4 . Ive seen GF loses live in 96 06 14 16 22 and 24 it hurts big time , i saw loses in 70 and 77 when it was a freak of nature we made it , it all hurts.

I look at the mid 80s period of finals failure and put the blame solely at the feet of Tom Hafey. He was a fitness fanatic that could run all day and then keep running during the night. He expected all his players to be the same.
As a result, whilst other coaches were reducing the workload of their teams during finals, Hafey actually increased it. He was of the belief that the harder you trained the harder you played. Problem was that, as Merv Nagel explained later, the players were exhausted come match day and played accordingly.

 

[The King!]

I look at the mid 80s period of finals failure and put the blame solely at the feet of Tom Hafey. He was a fitness fanatic that could run all day and then keep running during the night. He expected all his players to be the same.
As a result, whilst other coaches were reducing the workload of their teams during finals, Hafey actually increased it. He was of the belief that the harder you trained the harder you played. Problem was that, as Merv Nagel explained later, the players were exhausted come match day and played accordingly.

The team also had no depth whatsoever

 

[Bandicoot]

The talent comments a lot are making today are fair. Seems like we just pick the best/most talented 23 on the list available, rather than the best side for team balance/structure. Even when winning the side always looks like it's carrying 2-3 flankers more than it should. So we are always putting a few square pegs in round holes.

Re: the 3 talls I'm not as down on that philosophy as most. Lots of sides play 3 talls, Brisbane have 3 talls, but they surround them with Cameron, Lohman, Bailey, Ah Chee so they still get the pressure they need. Outside of Daniher the Brisbane key forwards are hardly world beaters either, any other week than this we'd talk about how crap Hipwood is.
We do need one of the 3 to take a big step.....but more importantly we need to surround them with the right players......at least one more genuine goal-kicking small forward on top of Papley rather than an out of position Mid/Flanker down there (goal kicking being a key word there, pressure along not enough).

Maybe Blakey plays a more accountable 3rd tall role and then runs off rather than just being another flanker. idk Clearly need to lose a flanker for a specialist more inside focused mid (i.e Mills, Sheldrick, Cleary or whoever it be)

Don't know the answers.... but need to find a way to maximise the talent in the right ways, just can't cram flankers into positions they aren't suited too. It doesn't explain the complete compilations but I'm sure it's a small part of it.

Disagree re the three talls, Brisbane play two - Daniher and Hipwood. The remaining forwards are either small or medium sized. Most clubs are now going with one to two talls with a plethora of smalls in the forward line . Looking at Hawthorn, Geelong as an example

 

[Nuggetz]

I haven't seen that "bloods culture" for a while now... I think it left when Kizza & JPK hung up the boots.

We can't look back. We need to look forward. Like Roos did before establishing our most recent "brand" (the "bloods culture"), we need to really dig deep down and commit to who we want to be. We need to establish what that is. Make it clear. Draft accordingly. Train accordingly. Play accordingly.

Are we still basing our culture on "the bloods"? If so, we've gone so far off track there has obviously been a huge error in direction & management... I think we'd committed to changing our culture after 2013-2015. We moved to flashier players. Faster ball movement. We no longer played to "our culture" & that internal culture changed... And that's ok. But right now I think the club is confused. Are we "the bloods" or are we "Proudly Sydney"? Unfortunately, we can't be both & be successful. It's asking too much of the club to cover everything. We can't choose to be hard nosed, ruthless, tough & also flashy, fast & expansive... It's physically, psychologically & practically impossible IMO.

Find our culture. Who are we? Build it. Plan for it. Play to it. Don't deviate. Commit in full to it.

We need to be honest with ourselves. We haven't looked like "the bloods" for a while now - let's not try to pretend that is our core dna when it clearly isn't anymore. IF we want it to be then we need to build our club around it & play to it... Which we haven't the past decade.

Is it 'Bloods culture' or gamestyle suited to the attributes of those previous players? Previously we've had a more combative gamestyle because we had players who suited that style, right now we've got a gamestyle based on speed & skill because it suits those players.

We need to alter our team defensive systems because it hasn't worked. Move to 1v1 & bring in players that are suited to applying defensive pressure on the opposition players.

I still think the biggest improvement we can make is with a change in defensive gamestyle & tactics. That's determined by the coaches.

 

[Bandicoot]

Those sprinkler heads are dangerous.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

It was clearly apparent to everyone at the ground - except apparently our coaching staff.

 

[Bandicoot]

I take some solace from the fact that since the adoption of the AFL name in 1990, even if you factor out our three smashings since 2014, the average grand final full time margin is still about 38 points.

Even without our three smashings, there have been fifteen games with margins of 40 or more.

There have only been seven games with a margin of 10 or less.

So grand finals have a clear tendency to be blowouts. It is a characteristic of our comp unfortunately. I don’t know if the AFL and the networks have considered addressing it, but it’s not great for the long term appeal of the event.

Our specific problem at the Swans is we’re quite good at getting to these AFL grand finals, which have an undeniable tendency to be blowouts. And then once we’re there, we’re really bad at being on the winning side of these blowouts that AFL grand finals so strongly tend to be.

Even in said blowouts, most of them aren't over before half time like our two have been.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Even in said blowouts, most of them aren't over before half time like our two have been.

I have to confess, by half-time I was so disengaged, I found myself making up nicknames for players.

Mrs DQ liked “tissues” for Ah Chee (no idea if that’s already his nickname).

It was all I could do to distract from the horror that’d unfolded.

 

[TheGoatBaron]

I have to confess, by half-time I was so disengaged, I found myself making up nicknames for players.

Mrs DQ liked “tissues” for Ah Chee (no idea if that’s already his nickname).

It was all I could do to distract from the horror that’d unfolded.

I went on Chaturbate. At least there I knew someone would come.

Ok I’ll see myself out

 

[Tomorrow]

Totally avoiding the issue of 4 gf failures, It seems marketing solution is to tell members they need to have a good hard self reflection and than pay up in December...

"While a Grand Final loss is bitterly disappointing, we hope members in time reflect on what an incredible season the club has had.

Winning the minor premiership and reaching 75,000 members this year is no small feat, and it speaks volumes about the ongoing loyalty of our Swans members.

While we know this loss hurts and we feel it deeply alongside each and every one of you, our club is resilient, and we will fight to get back there.

We have so many positives to build on, and we’re already looking forward to next season with renewed determination.

Thank you for your passion, your commitment, and for being with us every step of the way.

If we can assist further, please don't hesitate to get in touch with Membership Support on 02 9157 5020 10am-4pm, Monday to Friday.

Cheer cheer,"

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Is it 'Bloods culture' or gamestyle suited to the attributes of those previous players? Previously we've had a more combative gamestyle because we had players who suited that style, right now we've got a gamestyle based on speed & skill because it suits those players.

We need to alter our team defensive systems because it hasn't worked. Move to 1v1 & bring in players that are suited to applying defensive pressure on the opposition players.

I still think the biggest improvement we can make is with a change in defensive gamestyle & tactics. That's determined by the coaches.

What I'm trying to convey (I guess) is I believe there is a disparity between what I believe we have "branded" ourselves as and what we actually are & what we deliver... Our culture & gamestyle/playing group don't seem to match.

Our gamestyle, players, management etc doesn't scream "bloods" to me. It screams "Sydney". That's cool. Accept it & really own it... right now I think the club is walking between talking about "bloods footy" & relying on that historical ethos but playing "against" it.

E.g. if Kirk saw Warner running away from an opponent, more concerned with having a laugh & not (instead) intently focused on where he was going to kick it I suspect Chad would get some pretty harsh feedback... That's just not our style anymore though. That ruthless, "do the basics right" & "no dickheads policy" attitude conflicts with the "rockstar" style I think Horse has tried to embrace & use.

Be cocky. Be flashy. Be individual. Be the best. Do a Luke Parker .v. Essendon. But back it up.

That doesn't really reflect the "bloods" mentality which relys on a distinct lack of "personality"... team first, basic, rudimentary footy.

We need to sit down & write down who we are & what we stand for. Then we need draft/plan/train/play to that ethos & vision.

We can't be "hard nosed team first" as well as "flashy individuals"... pick one. Commit to it. Play to it. Own it.

Are we "the bloods" (of old) or are we something else now?

 

[bedford]

The team also had no depth whatsoever

Bullshit . Greg Williams went out against Essendon and Brett Scott came in and got 37 possies

 

[KingV23]

I went on Chaturbate. At least there I knew someone would come.

Ok I’ll see myself out

Maybe you should be called "Tissues" haha

 

[TheGoatBaron]

Maybe you should be called "Tissues" haha

The lass from Oman wasn’t on there on Saturday. I needed tissues for this alone. But think we’re derailing the thread dude

 

[Nuggetz]

Geez, Lions handball skills were elite. We drastically need to improve in this area.

 

[giantsully]

On the very very minor plus side, kudos to the umps - if only they umpired like that every week.

 

[RedWhite4Ever]

Just need to dip down to the bottom 8 for a few years. Nothing too drastic but float around 12-14th. We've been up for too long. It's no good and to be fair, im sure it goes without saying - the boys would be worn out mentally and physically.

Re-group, re-invent and then re-launch. Trade and recruit appropriately.

P.S what is Brett Kirk

Brett Kirk

Age

47

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

8.9

3star

HB

9.6

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

13.0

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

doing?

 

[Nuggetz]

Lol, fans wanting us to miss finals or re-build. You have no idea how hard it is to make finals & regularly get into GFs. It's not a given we'll return to the finals after a rebuild. I seriously hope the club doesn't entertain that idea, it would be idiotic. I don't want to give up finals appearances.

 

[Nuggetz]

Disagree re the three talls, Brisbane play two - Daniher and Hipwood. The remaining forwards are either small or medium sized. Most clubs are now going with one to two talls with a plethora of smalls in the forward line . Looking at Hawthorn, Geelong as an example

But both of them are more mobile than our talls fwds.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Its taken me the past 3 days to come in here....Saturday was really hard on me. First Swans grand final i've watched with my 6y/o son as i was at the ground in 2022. It's been a rough year in my family, and I desperately wanted this win. I was so anxious before the game, and never ever thought we would win after 2022....i can only imagine what ill be like next time we make a GF.
Anyway life goes on, but it just feels weird.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Its taken me the past 3 days to come in here....Saturday was really hard on me. First Swans grand final i've watched with my 6y/o son as i was at the ground in 2022. It's been a rough year in my family, and I desperately wanted this win. I was so anxious before the game, and never ever thought we would win after 2022....i can only imagine what ill be like next time we make a GF.
Anyway life goes on, but it just feels weird.

I was in the same boat. Footy goes on. My mindset is we just need to embrace the next few years with curiosity in how the club responds to it.

Before the GF I was steadfast on not wanting anything in the team to change, I was actually happy Horse was going with our best perceived 22 - but since seeing how teams have adjusted mid season, and like brisbane had to shuffle things around to go on blistering runs makes me more open to seeing some major adjustments in our team setup. We have more than enough evidence with other clubs and talent within our list to find something even if all seems lost.

I'm still confident we can find a way to make another GF in 12 months time, and this time around I'd be more so curious about it rather than anxious. As distraught as I was after the game I feel like the losses have taken the edge off losing in a kinda good way. We go again. And if we lose again so be it, we go again. It will eventually stick, and everything before it becomes mute.

 

[The King!]

Bullshit . Greg Williams went out against Essendon and Brett Scott came in and got 37 possies

Actually it was 31 touches but oh cool one player came in the same Brett Scott who played 57 games and averaged 13 touches over his career- that proves who we had depth.


Given Tom Hafey and Gerard Healy amongst others also said the club had no reserves depth at the time, I will go with them.

 

[Bandicoot]

Exactly, Kirk, McVeigh and Matthews were there when we branded the Bloods culture, surely they have some say.

That team on Saturday made a mockery of the Swans Culture as we have known it to be. Couldn't care less attitude, refusal to chase, opponents waltzing through so called tackles.

 

[Bandicoot]

Of that lot I think Hayward does have it, and Gulden, Campbell and Jmac have the potential.

I think Roberts needs to go straight into the guts next year. If he lines up at half back round 1 I will be pretty pissed off.

Sheldrick needs to go straight into the guts imo

 

[Bandicoot]

Roberts has proven he can accumilate. The numbers he was getting in stages as a HB was pretty impressive that's not easy to do. I rekn he can do it as a mid.

I'm convinced we need a tougher, bigger bodied inside mid than what we currently have. Gulden is slight, as is Warner as is Papley when he's there. I feel we should have a good look at Kennedy from Carlton.