The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Outback Footy]

The problem for Harris is half the country doesn't give a shit that Trump was found guilty of these things because they happeend under the legal system of States that despise Trump all ready, in Courts run by Judges and Prosecutors that are activist members of the Democrats and for the sole purpose to stop him running. They failed.

Lol, nah, its funny how little you understand the american legal sytem

Ever heard of a grand jury?

Trump was found guilty because he was guilty. He had no defence at all in the last case. Put up 1 witness which backfired. Funny days.

Half the country were rusted on publicans who didnt see any news but Fox so therefore didnt see the truth. If the prosecutions shave off any of them Trump loses. Trump cant afford to lose any voters yet hes sacrificed women voters with the Roe decision (80+% of americans now support abortion, whos that gonna help? Thats right, Kamala)

Nikki Haley got 20% of the publican primary vote months after pulling out of the contest. Thats the "Never Trump" wing of the publicans. If they stay home or vote Kamala hes really sunk.

Im sorry. Facts.

 

[wayniac]

How is that even relevant?

And btw Biden didnt invade Ukraine or Gaza. Trumps mates did

Ummm. From our own lefty BBC...Israel was invaded but nice try.

On the morning of 7 October, waves of Hamas gunmen stormed across Gaza's border into Israel, killing about 1,200 people. Hamas also fired thousands of rockets.
Those killed included children, the elderly and 364 young people at a music festival.

Hamas took more than 250 others to Gaza as hostages.
The BBC has also seen evidence of rape and sexual violence during the Hamas attacks.

 

[Sentinel]

I'm not fully in tune with how the primaries work ahead of a US election, but as I understand it the delegates are supposed to listen to the will of the people in each state to put forward their vote to determine the party's candidate - obviously completely different to how our leaders are chosen.

What I can't understand is how, based on that (if I'm correct), Harris just gets jettisoned into the Democratic seat without going through that usual process? Obviously Biden dropping out late makes the timing difficult and uncomfortable for the party, but it's hardly a democratic choice is it based on them completely subverting the usual process to place her in this position? i.e. besides being a democratic pick of the delegates themselves (but not the general Democratic voting public)? She didn't even participate in the primaries the Democrats held earlier in the year.

(Asked as someone who despises everything to do with Trump and MAGA, and who thinks Harris is the obvious best candidate post Biden)

 

[wayniac]

Dogwatch never read this book although I told him it would open his eyes about the Dems.

The author has not been sued for any of this content. He's also done the job on Reagan, the Bush family. Funny how you guys think one side is better than the other. I'm sad that Ron Paul never got a run at the job.

Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America's Pro…

For over a decade, the work of five-time New York Times…

www.goodreads.com

 

[yebach]

Dogwatch never read this book although I told him it would open his eyes about the Dems.

The author has not been sued for any of this content. He's also done the job on Regan, the Bush family. Funny how you guys think one side is better than the other. I'm sad that Ron Paul never got a run at the job.

Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America's Pro…

For over a decade, the work of five-time New York Times…

www.goodreads.com

Also RFK has never been sued by Fauci about his book.
Maybe the Intellectual BrisDog would like to read books that his algorithms haven't recommended?

What people don't get is that there are no sides. Only corrupt politicians from the left and the right being influenced by powerful organisations.

 

[Sharpiesadog]

By them you mean the "deplorables"? The ones in the working class, manufacturing heartlands who were told to "learn to code"? The ones who are repeatedly told they're stupid and uneducated yet its the government's responsibility to educate them? The ones who are told to put solar panels on their roofs but they can't afford to put food on their plate?

You mean the ones who benefit from the rise in the minimum wage? The ones who benefit from the changing of the stage 3 tax cuts? The ones who benefit from Labours plan to put money into the manufacture of renewable energy infrastructure, thus creating jobs? The ones who benefit from Labor increasing the Medicare payment to GP’s after 9 years of LNP freeze? The ones who benefit from cheaper prescriptions?

I won’t go on. There is lots more.

 

[Sharpiesadog]

I'm not fully in tune with how the primaries work ahead of a US election, but as I understand it the delegates are supposed to listen to the will of the people in each state to put forward their vote to determine the party's candidate - obviously completely different to how our leaders are chosen.

What I can't understand is how, based on that (if I'm correct), Harris just gets jettisoned into the Democratic seat without going through that usual process? Obviously Biden dropping out late makes the timing difficult and uncomfortable for the party, but it's hardly a democratic choice is it based on them completely subverting the usual process to place her in this position? i.e. besides being a democratic pick of the delegates themselves (but not the general Democratic voting public)? She didn't even participate in the primaries the Democrats held earlier in the year.

(Asked as someone who despises everything to do with Trump and MAGA, and who thinks Harris is the obvious best candidate post Biden)

It’s a wierd system, but the primaries are mainly the responsibility of each party, so they have their own rules about transferring delegates votes.

Even in the Presidential election, delegates from each state are not required by law to vote for the candidate who won that State in the electoral college. It’s just that they always have. It was one of the things Trump was trying to change last time, but no-one wanted to do it.

In theory, Trump could win in a landslide and the delagates could ignore the popular vote and select someone else to be president. Even Kennedy.

Won’t happen though. Would be great viewing if it did, just to see Donny’s face.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Anyone who seriously tries to peddle the argument that “Trump didn’t start any wars/there were no wars under him” is making it obvious to everyone that they cannot see things beyond their surface level understanding.

The US directly engaged Iran in warfare in 2020, Trump authorised the killing of Soleimani whom the US had wanted dead for years. Maybe bombing the army general of another nation doesn’t fit into your little definition of warfare because we didn’t have the tanks rolling in, but that’s what happened.

Besides that one directly involving the US, you are ignoring the Syrian Civil War, The Ukraine-Russia conflict that has been going on far longer than 2022, Saudia Arabia fighting Yemen, and let’s not talk about the shitshow that was the withdrawal from Afghanistan and his complacency towards Russia.

Unless we're talking US boots literally on the ground somewhere. And of course we are.

The idea that there were no wars under Trump and that there was some kind of utopian world peace under his watch is a myopically laughable talking point for rubes to regurgitate like the dumb cows they are. In 2016 alone there were as many as 100 recognisable conflicts happening all over the globe. This of course included the simmering conflict in Ukraine.

Let's not forget that under Trumps watch the US was still entangled in the ticking time bomb of the Afghanistan peace agreement and phased drawdown that his administration negotiated and put in place and then left for the Biden team to handle. The only alternative to the withdrawal was to have another costly surge out into the provinces and try and stabilise the situation. Something that was untenable after 20 year of pointlessly wasteful war. Under the negotiated peace deal the US withdrew to Kabul and relied on the Afghan govt for security everywhere else. This just like the last days of Vietnam, set up the final days at Kabul to be a giant cluster **** of desperation as the Afghan government quickly fell like the corrupt house of cards that it was.

Thanks in no small part to the previous administration freeing 1000's of seasoned Taliban fighters as part of the deal.

Other than all of that, sure. Trump saw no wars under his watch.

As it stands there are currently somewhere around 50 ongoing conflicts. Is this reduction in numbers due to the actions of the current administration? Of course not. Just as the 100 or so that were banging away at each other under Trumps watch were not his doing or within his ability to influence. If he was interested. Thats just how US foreign policy works. Some places they half heartedly meddle in, some places they ignore and some places they lay waste to and send back to a veritable stone age. It all depends on where their interest lays.

Apparently wars are ok if they're backed by the Democrats.

Who actually says this?

 

[wayniac]

Also RFK has never been sued by Fauci about his book.
Maybe the Intellectual BrisDog would like to read books that his algorithms haven't recommended?

What people don't get is that there are no sides. Only corrupt politicians from the left and the right being influenced by powerful organisations.

All the messaging for years has been to discourage questioning and to give people tribal associations. I am right you are wrong etc.

Straight from 1984, the Big Brother figure, the constant war against the confected enemy.

The beat up of Ivermectin, labelling it as Horse Paste in order to push people towards untried vaccines and Pfizer's Paxlovid.


From a good doctor:

Drugs that may be problematic with
Paxlovid include erythromycin, Lipitor,
Crestor, Zocor, valium, Xanax, Prosom,
and Lovastatin.
The study from Pfizer failed to show that Paxlovid
prevents the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, or prevents
or treats long COVID. And we haven’t even mentioned
the potential rebound symptoms a person can have
after taking Paxlovid.
In addition, the treatment is expensive. A drug
that benefits 5 percent of people who take it should
be inexpensive. But Paxlovid costs $530 per person.
Who would pay $530 for a drug that fails to benefit 95
percent of those who take it?

 

[dogwatch]

Dogwatch never read this book although I told him it would open his eyes about the Dems.

The author has not been sued for any of this content. He's also done the job on Reagan, the Bush family. Funny how you guys think one side is better than the other. I'm sad that Ron Paul never got a run at the job.

Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America's Pro…

For over a decade, the work of five-time New York Times…

www.goodreads.com

So many books. So little time!

 

[stefcep]

Lol, nah, its funny how little you understand the american legal sytem

Ever heard of a grand jury?

Trump was found guilty because he was guilty. He had no defence at all in the last case. Put up 1 witness which backfired. Funny days.

Half the country were rusted on publicans who didnt see any news but Fox so therefore didnt see the truth. If the prosecutions shave off any of them Trump loses. Trump cant afford to lose any voters yet hes sacrificed women voters with the Roe decision (80+% of americans now support abortion, whos that gonna help? Thats right, Kamala)

Nikki Haley got 20% of the publican primary vote months after pulling out of the contest. Thats the "Never Trump" wing of the publicans. If they stay home or vote Kamala hes really sunk.

Im sorry. Facts.

The Wade v Roe decision was to delegate abortion to the States. It did not "ban" abortion. You won't get that fact listening to CNN and MSNBC, but you'll get the shrill "Trump banned abortion, Trump is Hitler".

BTW this is EXACTLY how it operates in Australia as well- there is no Federal law giving a right to abortion, its a State law.

I'm just waiting for the MSM to go into over-drive, and to reveal which card the Dems will pull out this time. Last time they used the race card relying on the useful idiots in the BLM. This time it will likely be both the gender AND the race card.

 

[stefcep]

Omfg, you didn’t even read my post. I’m done talking to you.

OFG I read it, its BS. You're blaming Trump for Afghanistan? Really? Trump for Ukraine? Really?. Trump did eliminate an Iranian despot this is true And it shut Iran up-mission accomplished, and NO WARS. None. Zip. Nada.

 

[stefcep]

How is that even relevant?

And btw Biden didnt invade Ukraine or Gaza. Trumps mates did

Not on Trumps watch they didn't.

 

[Sentinel]

The Wade v Roe decision was to delegate abortion to the States. It did not "ban" abortion. You won't get that fact listening to CNN and MSNBC, but you'll get the shrill "Trump banned abortion, Trump is Hitler".

BTW this is EXACTLY how it operates in Australia as well- there is no Federal law giving a right to abortion, its a State law.

I'm just waiting for the MSM to go into over-drive, and to reveal which card the Dems will pull out this time. Last time they used the race card relying on the useful idiots in the BLM. This time it will likely be both the gender AND the race card.

Wade vs Roe didn't directly ban abortion but it allowed for states to ban it, which predictably some have outright done (I believe the current number is 14).

Outback Footy never said that Wade vs Roe on its own banned abortion as you insinuate. Trump however is indirectly responsible for this, having appointed a number of conservative Supreme Court judges who ruled on it and gave it back to the states - he himself has trumpted that- “After 50 years of failure, with nobody coming even close, I was able to kill Roe v. Wade, much to the ‘shock’ of everyone" (Trump's own words here). You know all of this already though.

There's no relevance to how it operates in Australia because there is no need - all states in Australia allow abortion, with differing laws, however there's absolutely no discussion about it being banned anywhere. The one benefit in moving it to a federal level would be to make the law consistent throughout the country, which it currently isn't.

 

[Werewolf]

OFG I read it, its BS. You're blaming Trump for Afghanistan? Really? Trump for Ukraine? Really?. Trump did eliminate an Iranian despot this is true And it shut Iran up-mission accomplished, and NO WARS. None. Zip. Nada.

I think you'd have to blame all of the Bush Jnr, Obama, Trump and Biden administrations for the Afghanistan and Ukraine debacles. To varying degrees obviously, not 25% each. Although I think only the Ukraine disaster was preventable.

But some people have predicted failures in those regions going back 15-20 years. Naturally they were ignored because only people who say the right things get taken seriously and/or promoted.

 

[stefcep]

Wade vs Roe didn't directly ban abortion but it allowed for states to ban it, which predictably some have outright done (I believe the current number is 14).

Outback Footy never said that Wade vs Roe on its own banned abortion as you insinuate. Trump however is indirectly responsible for this, having appointed a number of conservative Supreme Court judges who ruled on it and gave it back to the states - he himself has trumpted that- “After 50 years of failure, with nobody coming even close, I was able to kill Roe v. Wade, much to the ‘shock’ of everyone" (Trump's own words here). You know all of this already though.

There's no relevance to how it operates in Australia because there is no need - all states in Australia allow abortion, with differing laws, however there's absolutely no discussion about it being banned anywhere. The one benefit in moving it to a federal level would be to make the law consistent throughout the country, which it currently isn't.

The US is the United States. It is a Union of individual States. The Supreme Court determined there was no Federal right to abortion under the Constitution of the United States. The Feds have no right to intervene in a State legislative matter. The States are free to decide abortion rights, and they can freely do this through their elected officials who represent the will of the people. Its called "Democracy".

The Government of the day and the President of the day is free to appoint the SC Judges-its not like the Democrats haven't appointed ones that align with their politics, is it? You're just annoyed the Republicans did it too.

Your last paragraph is nonsense. High Courts and Supreme Courts don't act on some arbitrary concept of what you says "is needed". They act within the boundaries of the Constitution.

 

[Next Waiting]

What people don't get is that there are no sides. Only corrupt politicians from the left and the right being influenced by powerful ororganisations.

I'm kind of in this camp although some powerful organisations are more palatable than others.

 

[Mofra]

What people don't get is that there are no sides. Only corrupt politicians from the left and the right being influenced by powerful organisations.

The problem with the 'both sides' argument is that it completely ignores proportionality.
Simplification is the enemy of nuance.

 

[Mofra]

The Government of the day and the President of the day is free to appoint the SC Judges-its not like the Democrats haven't appointed ones that align with their politics, is it? You're just annoyed the Republicans did it too.

You're not up to speed with Congress' efforts to block Obama's appointees which went against decades of precedent.

 

[Sentinel]

Your last paragraph is nonsense. High Courts and Supreme Courts don't act on some arbitrary concept of what you says "is needed". They act within the boundaries of the Constitution.

My last paragraph was clumsily written, I agree, but this isn't what I'm arguing, clearly.

As for Trump, either he played a significant role in the current status of abortion across the country or he didn't - which is it?

 

[stefcep]

You're not up to speed with Congress' efforts to block Obama's appointees which went against decades of precedent.

It worked exactly as intended. The President nominates, and then the senate votes to confirm or deny the nomination. Its another of the checks and balances in the system that prevents the President from being a King.

EDIT:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/biden-black-woman-janice-rogers-brown/

in 2003....Biden and his fellow Democrats filibustered her nomination, along with several other Bush circuit court nominees, all of whom had majority support in the Senate. Columnist Robert Novak called it “the first full-scale effort in American history to prevent a president from picking the federal judges he wants.”

In 2001, Democrats blocked the nomination of Miguel Estrada to serve on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit....” They did not want Republicans to put the first Hispanic on the Supreme Court. So, Biden and his fellow Democrats killed Estrada’s nomination — the first appeals court nominee in history to be successfully filibustered. It paid off when President Barack Obama nominated Sonia Sotomayor as the first Hispanic justice.
.....

 

[stefcep]

My last paragraph was clumsily written, I agree, but this isn't what I'm arguing, clearly.

As for Trump, either he played a significant role in the current status of abortion across the country or he didn't - which is it?

He did not. The Supreme Court sent the issue back to its lawful place- the State legislatures. The voters of these States are free to re-instate abortion if they so wish, Trump isn't stopping them.

 

[Outback Footy]

High Courts and Supreme Courts don't act on some arbitrary concept of what you says "is needed". They act within the boundaries of the Constitution.

Well they used to. Now the US Supreme Court is just making shit up.

Presidential immunity FFS. No man is above the law. Their constitution is silent on felons running for president coz noone imagined it could happen

 

[Outback Footy]

Not on Trumps watch they didn't.

Biden wasnt in charge during Vietnam either. You could just as easily blame ScoMo for Ukraine. It was PUTIN who invaded ffs. Trumps mate. Biden committed to helping them defend themselves. No US or NATO or Oz soldiers committed.

Trump didnt stop the annexation of crimea or the atrocities in syria or russias invasion of Checnya.

 

[Outback Footy]

The Wade v Roe decision was to delegate abortion to the States. It did not "ban" abortion. You won't get that fact listening to CNN and MSNBC, but you'll get the shrill "Trump banned abortion, Trump is Hitler".

BTW this is EXACTLY how it operates in Australia as well- there is no Federal law giving a right to abortion, its a State law.

I'm just waiting for the MSM to go into over-drive, and to reveal which card the Dems will pull out this time. Last time they used the race card relying on the useful idiots in the BLM. This time it will likely be both the gender AND the race card.

Trump has owned the Roe decision. Brags about it. "Only I could ban abortion, nobody else"

The publicans under McConnell and Trump stole 2 supreme court seats, skewing its decision making for decades to come. And youve argued they were following precedent. BS. McConnells senate refused to hear Garlands nomination. Thats uprecedented. Almost 12 months from an election. The rushed their nominee through weeks from the next election.