The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Freshwater]

Explain the picture for me.

He thinks she is being promoted because of her race and gender. She thinks he is already there because of his race and gender. Both the people in this picture are being judgmental and coming to conclusions that may not be true, but want to believe them to suit their inadequacies.
What have we become as a culture when we think like this? Petty, small minded, cunning, snakes.

 

[Arkangel]

The only context I've come across the whole "DEI" thing was in some professional development I had to do, where it was all focused on being sensitive to the different backgrounds and perspectives that colleagues and students (I work at a university) might be coming from. I took some sociology courses as an undergraduate so none of it was new to me, but it seemed pretty harmless (if boring).

In the context of this thread, I guess what I'd want to know is: Are there actual policies being put forward by either presidential campaign that people object to in this area? Or is it all just a media beat-up to fire people up and get them talking past each other? (I honestly don't know about this, policy-wise; I'm in the "anyone but Trump" camp and not eligible to vote in the U.S., so I haven't been paying that much attention.)

 

[yebach]

Charlie Bucket with the most Trump like personality on this entire forum is LoL ing at my posts.
I must be doing something right.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[BEaston]

Oh no. I got facepalmed by the guy that thinks employing minorities is dangerous and will kill culture.

 

[BEaston]

Explain the picture for me.

I'll wait Freshwater

 

[Royale]

This thread is toxic in the extreme. Calling someone racist because they dont agree with your views is perverse. I'm not going to allude to what race or gender I am, all I will say is, it shouldn't matter on a resume.

Merit and experience. That's it.

Public discourse has lost the language of generosity.

 

[Fossie 32]

Guys please be respectful of others and play the ball not the man.
Thank you.

Show me one instance where Raf Epstein has expressed concerns about DEI. Just one.

I won't beat around the bush like previous posters.

You are a racist. Nothing more or less. The undertones come through in every response, no matter how much you try to fudge your words.

 

[BEaston]

This thread is toxic in the extreme. Calling someone racist because they dont agree with your views is perverse. I'm not going to allude to what race or gender I am, all I will say is, it shouldn't matter on a resume.

Merit and experience. That's it.

Public discourse has lost the language of generosity.

I agree it probably shouldn't be said but that's not why someone was called a racist. It's moreso, you know, the thinly veiled racism. There's a track record there, not just a recent thing.

 

[BEaston]

This thread is toxic in the extreme. Calling someone racist because they dont agree with your views is perverse. I'm not going to allude to what race or gender I am, all I will say is, it shouldn't matter on a resume.

Merit and experience. That's it.

Public discourse has lost the language of generosity.

That's easy to say though when in reality it does matter. As bresker said there's been lots of studies done, and it's simplifying but same resume, different name John Smith vs Mohammad Ahmed = different outcome. You can't overcome these biases by doing nothing or simply hoping people work purely on merit. It's been proven that they don't.

 

[Freshwater]

Oh no. I got facepalmed by the guy that thinks employing minorities is dangerous and will kill culture.

I love anyone who I work with and for. Just don’t compel that employment to fit government defined quotas.

 

[wayniac]

That's easy to say though when in reality it does matter. As bresker said there's been lots of studies done, and it's simplifying but same resume, different name John Smith vs Mohammad Ahmed = different outcome. You can't overcome these biases by doing nothing or simply hoping people work purely on merit. It's been proven that they don't.

There are so many outliers to your "ït's been proven" assertion.

I can state from personal experience how white working class people were discriminated against in England. It was never black/white in the UK. Working class people always accommodated other ethnicities until people like Oswald Mosley turned to fascism because he despaired on English politics. He was landed gentry and those folks are a million degrees of separation from the working class folks.

At grammar school in the UK we were from the wrong side of the tracks according to out Headmaster and his sidekick deputy. In one parent teacher interview he let slip that the school had too many working class children attending. His big mistake was that the parent he was talking to affected a very posh accent and her husband was a dustbin man. She gave him a real telling off.

My Father was a lorry(truck) driver for most of his life and he was fired on the spot after a load was stolen off his lorry one night when he was staying overnight in Westmoreland in a crappy B&B and had to leave his lorry in a public place. What kind of discrimination is that?

The whole DEI thing is attacking the wrong aspect of what comprises discrimination. It's not colour of skin nor racial background.

 

[bresker]

There are so many outliers to your "ït's been proven" assertion.

I can state from personal experience how white working class people were discriminated against in England. It was never black/white in the UK. Working class people always accommodated other ethnicities until people like Oswald Mosley turned to fascism because he despaired on English politics. He was landed gentry and those folks are a million degrees of separation from the working class folks.

At grammar school in the UK we were from the wrong side of the tracks according to out Headmaster and his sidekick deputy. In one parent teacher interview he let slip that the school had too many working class children attending. His big mistake was that the parent he was talking to affected a very posh accent and her husband was a dustbin man. She gave him a real telling off.

My Father was a lorry(truck) driver for most of his life and he was fired on the spot after a load was stolen off his lorry one night when he was staying overnight in Westmoreland in a crappy B&B and had to leave his lorry in a public place. What kind of discrimination is that?

The whole DEI thing is attacking the wrong aspect of what comprises discrimination. It's not colour of skin nor racial background.

It is, because if the people in your stories had black skin instead of white skin, the outcomes may have been different.

If the students had black skin, they may not have made it to grammar school in the first place. If the head teacher had said there were too many black kids at the school, it may have been an acceptable remark in 70s Britain.

If your dad had black skin, he may not have got the job in the first place. And if this was 1970s Britain, he'd undoubtedly have endured racism from colleagues & the public. Maybe the B & B owner would have said "sorry we're full today." No blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

I'm not saying class distinctions don't matter. But racial discrimination adds an extra element of distinction.

 

[BEaston]

There are so many outliers to your "ït's been proven" assertion.

I can state from personal experience how white working class people were discriminated against in England. It was never black/white in the UK. Working class people always accommodated other ethnicities until people like Oswald Mosley turned to fascism because he despaired on English politics. He was landed gentry and those folks are a million degrees of separation from the working class folks.

At grammar school in the UK we were from the wrong side of the tracks according to out Headmaster and his sidekick deputy. In one parent teacher interview he let slip that the school had too many working class children attending. His big mistake was that the parent he was talking to affected a very posh accent and her husband was a dustbin man. She gave him a real telling off.

My Father was a lorry(truck) driver for most of his life and he was fired on the spot after a load was stolen off his lorry one night when he was staying overnight in Westmoreland in a crappy B&B and had to leave his lorry in a public place. What kind of discrimination is that?

The whole DEI thing is attacking the wrong aspect of what comprises discrimination. It's not colour of skin nor racial background.

Of course discrimination occurs on the grounds of class as well. However to deny it happens due to skin colour and racial background has no connection to reality in my opinion.

 

[Fossie 32]

John 8:7

 

[wayniac]

It is, because if the people in your stories had black skin instead of white skin, the outcomes may have been different.

If the students had black skin, they may not have made it to grammar school in the first place. If the head teacher had said there were too many black kids at the school, it may have been an acceptable remark in 70s Britain.

If your dad had black skin, he may not have got the job in the first place. And if this was 1970s Britain, he'd undoubtedly have endured racism from colleagues & the public. Maybe the B & B owner would have said "sorry we're full today." No blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

I'm not saying class distinctions don't matter. But racial discrimination adds an extra element of distinction.

Grammar school entry was merit based. We had to take the 11+ exam. This was in 1963 and we had one coloured classmate at primary school and one mixed-race boy. Neither of them passed the 11+ and they went to the recently introduced comprehensive schools. The coloured guy was a Sikh and we didn't care what his race or religion was. He was a good mate until we parted company.

So you are at least a decade off in your generalisations. You seem to be a product of the problems we now face, assumptions about events you didn't take part in.

My Dad was a D-Day veteran and those guys got SFA from their government when they came back from the war. US returned servicemen are well looked after in comparison. I have a close friend in the USA who did his time in the Vietnam War and he's had a great working life and in retirement he's enjoying life to the full. Returned servicemen in the US have great medical cover. He's had brain surgery and survived a massive brain tumour and recently undergone prostate surgery.

For all its faults, the USA rewards community service. I've already commented on service clubs in previous posts and been mocked.

Your idiotic comment about not getting hired in the first place if he had black skin is just that. Dads last job was with British Rail and his best mate was a West Indian. Dad cried when his mate died. So stuff your prejudice.

 

[wayniac]

Of course discrimination occurs on the grounds of class as well. However to deny it happens due to skin colour and racial background has to connection to reality in my opinion.

Where did I deny it? Working class is all colours. Not sure of your background. I'm pretty sure my background is more realistic in terms of experience than yours. Give us a CV and we'll see.

 

[BEaston]

Where did I deny it? Working class is all colours. Not sure of your background. I'm pretty sure my background is more realistic in terms of experience than yours. Give us a CV and we'll see.

The whole DEI thing is attacking the wrong aspect of what comprises discrimination. It's not colour of skin nor racial background.

Tell me how to interpret these bolded sentences. To me, that reads to say discrimination isn't comprised of a racial component which is clearly false.

Are you saying there is racial discrimination but DEI is wrong to try address it? DEI should only try address discrimination by class?

 

[Bulldog1954]

If your dad had black skin, he may not have got the job in the first place.

And he definitely wouldn't have been able to rent an apartment from the Trumps.

Out of curiosity, does anyone think if a black woman had declared 6 businesses as bankrupt, was a convicted felon and has a history of racism and sexism that they would be a parties nominee for president?

 

[Next Waiting]

And he definitely wouldn't have been able to rent an apartment from the Trumps.

Out of curiosity, does anyone think if a black woman had declared 6 businesses as bankrupt, was a convicted felon and has a history of racism and sexism that they would be a parties nominee for president?

In an alternative universe .... yes.

 

[wayniac]

Tell me how to interpret these bolded sentences. To me, that reads to say discrimination isn't comprised of a racial component which is clearly false.

Are you saying there is racial discrimination but DEI is wrong to try address it? DEI should only try address discrimination by class?

Stop deflecting and tell me your lived experience. There is discrimination in society of all shapes. Chinese call us white ghosts, In my time working in Indonesia the Indonesians hated anyone with Chinese ancestry and the government banned any Chinese language script and names. A good friend was r*ped because she was of Chinese "look", despite being probably tenth generation from Chinese stock but Indonesian citizens.

Malaysia has the bumiputra policy whereby Chinese are discriminated against and jobs go to the bumiputra (sons of the country).

The windmills you tilt at exist in spades all over the world, you have a one track mind, always trying to prove your point like a University debater.

Still waiting for your story. University educated, private school or what?

 

[BEaston]

Stop deflecting and tell me your lived experience. There is discrimination in society of all shapes. Chinese call us white ghosts, In my time working in Indonesia the Indonesians hated anyone with Chinese ancestry and the government banned any Chinese language script and names. A good friend was r*ped because she was of Chinese "look", despite being probably tenth generation from Chinese stock but Indonesian citizens.

Malaysia has the bumiputra policy whereby Chinese are discriminated against and jobs go to the bumiputra (sons of the country).

The windmills you tilt at exist in spades all over the world, you have a one track mind, always trying to prove your point like a University debater.

Still waiting for your story. University educated, private school or what?

What the hell are you on about. What's my story got to do with anything?

Do you need reminding that it was you who you asked me where you said racial discrimination didn't exist, so I quoted the post and asked for clarification. Talk about deflecting.

 

[Bulldog1954]

He is truly a horrible person.

 

[Fossie 32]

View attachment 2066752

He is truly a horrible person.

Uggh what a joke it is that when any media question his behaviour he says they are 'nasty' !! Gaslighting.

 

[yebach]

Some food for thought.